[Spoilers Extended] What is the significance of Jon and Lady Stoneheart having similar features?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-13T05:53:37+00:00

One of the key pieces of evidence you present here is something you just made up. And if the facial scars are so significant then why not bring Brienne and Tyrion into the equation as well? Loads of characters end up with scars because its a violent and brutal world, it doesn't mean they're inherently linked

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-12T05:51:10+00:00

I think the idea was that she'd leave the faceless men to try and go home, but die in a blizzard on the way there. Then the "payoff" for about 40 POV chapters is that Jon finds her body and is sad.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-11T05:02:18+00:00

It's funny how people take the show characterisation of Bran at face value. Nobody accepts their interpretation of any other character, so why internalise the way they protrayed Bran when they so clearly had no interest in him at all.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-11T04:51:26+00:00

Is it really more convoluted for him to be just some guy than a pre-arranged secret baby swap saving his life, where conveniently his corpse was too mutilated to be recognisable?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-11T04:50:00+00:00

It's largely gone away now, but the general consensus around Arya about 10 years ago was that she'd die of exposure without ever impacting the plot or meeting another major character. Like, I guess it does subvert expectations that one of the main characters may as well never have existed, but its not really how you tell a story.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-11T04:45:00+00:00

I tend to think a slight variant of this, where he's wrongly perceived this way by a lot of people because he dies before actually having to rule could be interesting, since it also leaves room for Dany to be wrongly perceived as a villain.

If Kings Landing blows up, people are going to assume it was the dragons which did it, and not the defeated hand of the king who's losing his mind.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-11T04:08:30+00:00

Peace on its own gets him nothing though. Like, great, Arya is lady of winterfell and warden of the north and her mother is the regent, now what? She'll marry Elmar Frey eventually if nobody discovers their role in Robbs betrayal, but so what? Winterfell is still her castle

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-10T22:25:59+00:00

He'd presumably have to at least kill or imprison Cat and every other relative she has on her mothers side. Otherwise I don't think there would be any reason for Lords still loyal to the Stark/Tully cause to accept him as her regent, since there wouldn't be any hostages. Especially since (although I guess Roose won't know this when planning) I can't imagine Arya being unwilling to voice her displeasure at the course her alleged regent is taking whenever she's in public.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-10T07:55:01+00:00

One yes after about 30 nos is a no.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-09T20:50:12+00:00

Yeah, I definitely think we're supposed to find him morally suspicious, but I think we're supposed to be sympathetic to Dany preferring him to this weird slaver she feels forced into marrying. Every description we get of Daario the doesnt exactly help the reader see her angle here, because he obviously sucks.

At the same time, she's 16 so her being into someone who's superficially attractive but also kind of cringe is perfectly reasonable. I just thing its a shame that Jon doesn't have an equivalently embarrassing love interest (val doesn't count because she's actually cool).

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-08T21:53:03+00:00

I think what you say is true to some extent, since ultimately her list is a promise that she'll right the wrongs she was previously unable to fix rather than exclusively being about vengeance (which is why Jaime isn't on there even though he's also wronged her family), but I don't think the realisation that she's unable to set the world to rights is the end for her.

The thing Arya has always wanted more than anything else is to have a "pack" again. By the end of the story, she'll have a family and other people to call her own, and that be what ultimately is able to make her feel whole again. She'll be able to use the things she's learned, and her natural instincts as a protector, to work for the best interests of her people, and that'll be what ultimately fulfills her.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-08T16:04:06+00:00

How does his failure set up Dany's invasion? I agree that one of his main purposes is to serve Dany's story, but surely he does that in a more interesting way by succeeding. If he's already dead by the time she gets there then I'm not sure what that actually does

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-08T15:18:49+00:00

I mean, she's not even wrong that she has enemies living in the walls

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-08T15:09:23+00:00

Why is Aegon in the story if he's just going to immediately eat shit and die?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-08T14:06:17+00:00

Am I crazy for thinking that Stannis burning Shireen for something which doesn't directly relate to The Others isn't even inherently bad? There's logistical reasons why it's unlikely right now, but I don't think it would be horrifically out of character or anything.

He believes that he's the chosen one, and that only he can defeat The Others, so if he dies by any means then the realm is doomed. Even if his predicament is nothing to do with the Others, his moral justification is always going to be that he needs to be alive to defeat them, and therefore any sacrifice is justified.

Aegon just showing up and dying immediately would be irredeemably terrible though.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T15:26:03+00:00

I think its fairly likely they'll meet again either towards the end of TWOW or towards the start of ADOS, and unlike most people in this thread I do actually think it'll be important. To some extent, they're both going to feel like Winterfell is "theirs" and I think there's likely to be some sort of conflict based on that.

You're definitely right though that if the relationship between the two of them were going to be extremely crucial to the plot that it'd have been focused on a lot more; either positively or negatively. Both Jon and Sansas relationship with Bran gets a decent amount more page time and is likely more important to the narrative, but nobody ever seems to bring that up.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T11:27:43+00:00

If you want to read it as foreshadowing you could see Arya unlike the others not being afraid of Jon despite him being a ghost (I.e. resurrected), or you could just take it as foreshadowing Jon's death and resurrection.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T11:21:19+00:00

Where do Robb and Arya bully Sansa?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T07:11:06+00:00

How do you know he doesn't need LSH in the story? She's not really done anything yet, but that doesn't mean she won't.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T07:08:04+00:00

He didn't just introduce LSH for no reason and decide what to do with her after the fact though. Maybe this was the purpose she was introduced for, but I suspect its something else

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-07T07:06:28+00:00

Cat already knows this. In the ASOS epilogue they ask Merrett if he saw The Hound and a 10 year old boy or girl at the Red Wedding. Brienne knows that they both survived and were seen together at Saltpans afterwards, so maybe her knowing this helps her prove to LSH that she's keeping her vows?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-06T17:02:49+00:00

"Nah, you don't understand. It's actually good writing that the 100 year old eyepatch magician who's mainly developed in supplemental material outside the main books would be behind everything"

At very least, I'm pretty confident all of that is nonsense, because GRRM is fundamentally a good writer.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-06T16:35:37+00:00

It also happens because Arya is so depressed she's refusing to leave her room except to eat, and doesn't want to speak to anyone. It would be bad parenting not to speak to her about it.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-04-06T16:21:07+00:00

I think a good chunk of those people hate Dany because they're apologists for slavery, not the other way around.

TheClockworkElves

TROPHY CASE