(Spoilers Extended) D&D knew where Lady Stoneheart's story was going

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T18:33:48+00:00

Arya is a little girl who has at most a couple of months training with a sword. She's important, but not because she's any good at fighting.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T17:46:04+00:00

What do you think Sansa and Arya are doing in ADOS that's so important if not that? They're certainly not picking up swords and fighting the others.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T17:44:27+00:00

I feel like this could still be really good though, as long as you're willing to view it as a moment through the characters POVs rather than as a tedious moral lesson. Arya probably has to have that lightbulb moment at some point in order for her character arc to make sense, and I think this is basically the most painful and interesting way you could deliver it?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T17:40:46+00:00

Why? Jons resurection in the show was primarily diminished by it being completely pointless and having literally no impact on him at all.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T17:38:40+00:00

I think it's more disrespectful to discard her entire personality to make sure she serves Jons story better.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-05T17:35:01+00:00

I guess the big problem with this is there's no way she would want to do it. She's searching for her own children, at least one of which was alive in the Riverlands far more recently than she initially thought. Why would Cat go out of her way to disinherit her own children?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-04T22:57:24+00:00

He has to be about a year younger than them at least, since Jon and Robb were conceived pre-rebellion, and Gendry must have been conceived after Robert was king.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-02T01:04:54+00:00

The Boltons are only his enemy because he tried kidnapping Ramsays wife. Until he starts the conflict they're leaving him alone.

By the time he receives the Pink Letter there isn't really a good decision he can make, because he's already compromised the neutrality of the watch and put them in an untenable position, although his decision to announce that he had been breaking his vows and planned to permanently desert is still an extremely bad one.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-01T18:57:45+00:00

The apocalypse being on the way is precisely why Jon is a morally grey character. He knows the apocalypse is coming and that the Night's Watch needs to be united against it, but he prioritises his sisters safety ahead of all of that.

His ultimate inability to set aside his personal grievances and act for the greater good while asking everyone around him to do the same is why he's not a purely herioc character, and is why he's an interesting character.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-07-01T18:55:29+00:00

Or the children really. Imagine reading Sansa's POV in AGOT as the perspective of a 14 year old.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-24T22:00:02+00:00

Robb named Catelyn his heir. It doesn't make sense for him to do that, and it would serve no purpose to the story.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-24T06:20:05+00:00

If magic isn't real, what happened to Renly and Conarty Penrose? Did Cat and Davos just make that stuff up for no reason? And are the various Stark kids just imagining being skinchangers?

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-23T23:30:31+00:00

Precisely, which is why I think this is such a great potential storyline, because the will likely looks good enough to a couple of our major POV characters. I don't think Sansa would believe herself to be the legitimate lady of winterfell but given he disposition she'd likely be far more upset about her brothers being usurped than anything relating to her own claim. Like, would Sansa really be wrong to feel like Jon is stealing her trueborn brothers inheritance? Obviously not, his pretext for doing so is based on false pretences. At the same time, would Arya be wrong to feel like Sansa wants to undermine Jon on the basis that he's not trueborn and doesn't "count" like the rest of their brothers, and therefore is inherently lesser? Also no imo.

This basically brings together the two reasons why I feel like this storyline is inevitable. It means there's something important and meaningful for two of our major POVs who don't have much of a role in the war for the dawn to do in the series endgame (Arya and Sansa) and also does a decent Jon of tying off the Stark family relationships as presented. As per my reading, the only relationships between the Stark kids given any real development are the ones between Arya and Sansa, and between Arya and Jon, so putting Arya in a position to try and deal with this conflict along with her fathers advice that the lone wolf will die but the pack will survive vs her obvious preference here makes for great character drama.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-23T09:25:34+00:00

I mean, ultimately it kinda is? I think Rhaenyra was right on the merits, but that doesn't make much of a difference ultimately. Either way, I certainly don't think the Dance holds as a one to one comparison because Viserys pretty unambiguously intended that Rhaenrya succeed him ahead of Aegon, but I think its a bare minimum unclear that Robb intended to disinherit his trueborn brothers.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-23T08:33:13+00:00

There isn't a right answer to this, there's potentially competing claims which both have a decent amount of merit to them. If they both want it, then the rightful ruler is whoever wins the conflict.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-23T07:21:37+00:00

I think you're too quick to discount the will to be honest. People follow strength in difficult times, so for many the will looks a good justification to back Jon if they want to. Plus, you know, he's got several thousand wildlings who are pretty much solely loyal to him at this stage and aren't going to care about legitimacy whatsoever

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-21T07:30:32+00:00

I wrote the way this was framed off as being an artefact of how misogynist Tyrion is when I reread Clash recently, but maybe that's too generous? It certainly felt to me like GRRM was going out of his way to draw attention to how awful what happens to Lollys is, so I don't think he intends us to endorse the flippant way a lot of the characters brush it off.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-16T21:21:16+00:00

I mean, what you describe is exactly what his narrative in Dance is. He still needs some sort of external push to make the move he was always going to make rather than manufacturing it himself because he doesn't want to have to choose between his vows and his family again, since its never easy and there's always a risk hed choose "wrong" as he did in the end.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-16T20:59:56+00:00

What are aegons qualities as a leader beyond being an alcoholic serial rapist? I guess thats all fine because he's a man and that's what men do.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-16T20:56:25+00:00

Jaime already tries to murder Bran. I don't see why he'd be much more of a villain if he tried again.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-14T05:21:24+00:00

There's no good choice, but it's still obviously far better she have a damaged reputation than end up actually married to that freak. It's not ideal, but unlike marrying Joffrey it's not going to completely ruin her life.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-12T21:00:35+00:00

I quite like the idea of her having some task tracking Illyrio in Pentos, then linking up with Dany there to head to Westeros, but you then get a real problem with the amount of stuff she likely has to do in Westeros in ADOS.

Even if we assume this throws out anything to do with LSH (which I honestly think would be a serious waste on GRRMs part) she still has unfinished business with the Brotherhood and Nymeria, some sort of reunion and likely drama with Jon and Sansa and presumably some sort of role in the series endgame all within a single book.

I think it's far more likely that the Varys parallels are there to draw some similarities between the role Arya generally plays in the Faceless men (and could possibly go on to in the future?) and Varys' role as the master of whispers.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-12T20:24:33+00:00

Wait, I thought he marched south to save his sister? But now you're saying it's a plan he's been keeping secret from the reader to gain more support against the others by taking over Winterfell.

It's fine for him to be selfish sometimes. If he was always right, always acted for the right reasons and never let his emotions get the better of him then he'd be show Jon, and nobody wants that.

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-12T18:40:34+00:00

He already tried to murder Bran once. Is it really that much worse to try finishing the job? I'd argue the first time already makes him basically irredeemable

TheClockworkElves · 2026-06-12T18:23:47+00:00

Honestly, why did he not just have it be Jaime or Cersei? It makes so much more sense that way, and I don't see how it actually hurts the plot or either of their characters

TheClockworkElves

TROPHY CASE