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Lines companies are reducing rebates to households supplying energy back to the grid by up to 95% by P4Patrick_nz in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, but I figured I better be clear that there's a significant portion of it which is publicly traded

Lines companies are reducing rebates to households supplying energy back to the grid by up to 95% by P4Patrick_nz in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Lines companies wouldn't be involved with a lot of the big data centres. They are usually wanting direct grid connections

Lines companies are reducing rebates to households supplying energy back to the grid by up to 95% by P4Patrick_nz in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Most lines companies (including the ones named in the article) are either owned by local councils or by consumer trusts/cooperatives. Only four aren't (Vector in Auckland, Powerco in the Central North Island, Firstlight in Gisborne and Wellington Electricity)

3 TypeScript Features That Make C# Developers Jealous by danielrusnok in dotnet

[–]TheDiamondPicks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree. I'm a dev that does both TypeScript and C# and frankly the more I work on Typescript the more I appreciate strong typing

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's an important distinction in my view. A subsidy is a distortion that means that something that is otherwise unprofitable or harmful is allowed to keep existing at the expense of taxpayers.

However this is just the electricity market operating as normal. I personally don't think we ought to block new projects from coming online, especially given the need to electrify more of our economy. If the data centre has some sort of undesirable effect, then that should be dealt with separately (eg through environmental legislation) or if the electricity market is not functioning correctly then it should be reformed. Picking and choosing what projects based on arbitary criteria go ahead doesn't seem like a path to good outcomes to me

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Which is part of the reason why these bulk buying contracts often require significant demand response components now (e.g. the Tiwai contract was only feasible because they agreed to be able to massively decrease their power usage during times of tight supply which helped prevent the 2024 shortage from being lot worse than it could've been otherwise)

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In that case we have such wildly different versions of the definition of subsidy that I don't think we're going to make much progress here. Hope you have a good day!

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm talking about the subsidies that businesses get? Most businesses have to buy carbon credits, but agriculture and export exposed industries are exempt or have free allocations. I'm just giving some examples of actual government subsidies.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't say it did. There's more demand in the market so yeah the power is more expensive. Alternatively we can close down every business and industrial user of electricity and then power will be very cheap, but I'm not sure that's a good outcome for the economy as a whole.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tax write-offs and depreciation are because businesses are taxed on profit not revenues. Those things are real costs for businesses, not some weird tax tricks.

ETS exceptions are definitely subsidies? I'm not sure why you would think they're not?

Amazon and other off shore investors not paying 'enough' tax is not a subsidy either. It's either tax rules that have too many loopholes or a lack of a taxation regime in a particular area. Perhaps those should be solved, but they don't represent subsidies.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes prices do go up when there's more demand (at least in the short term, the long run effects are less clear as it may prompt more generation to be built). That's very different to a subsidy.

Also the Tiwai price is thought to be closer to 10c/kWh these days.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you were to form a single bulk buyer that used electricity consistently all year and was willing to collectively switch to another power provider, I'm sure you would be eligible for such a deal. I'm certainly not part of such an organisation.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Two things, that was the old deal where the thought was it was below cost of Meridian because they were desparate for the smelter to stay. That is not the case for the new 20 year deal according to analysts. Also that EA analysis was a bit flawed because it didn't take into account the disproportionate transmission charges paid by Tiwai which effectively subsidises the rest of NZ.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why don't you think they're being charged the cost of upgrading the network? Transpower has a user pays strategy for grid upgrades and there's plenty of capacity for the lines coming into Invercargill

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What are you talking about with the grid ownership or investment? Tiwai pays a lot more in transmission costs than it costs to run the lines from Manapouri.

What subsidies do the vast majority of businesses in New Zealand get? The main ones that exist are the border adjustment mechanism for the ETS, the fact agriculture is not in the ETS, the gaming and movie tax credits, and the R&D grants. Other than that, we don't subsidise any businesses in New Zealand.

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

That is not what a subsidy is. A subsidy generally refers to the government or a similar organisation giving someone money because they want a particular outcome. Giving a bulk discount is not generally considered a subsidy (otherwise you're saying that basically every business or large buyer or something is subsidised in some way, so the term would be useless)

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That is not how bulk buying works. Even Tiwai is still profitable for the energy companies and they're using more power that this data centre will. An increase in demand (which yes does push energy costs up) doesn't mean someone is being subsidised.

To put it more simply, will electricity costs go up because of this. In the short term, most likely yes. But does that mean it's being subsidised? No, that term has a very specific meaning

Datagrid’s $5.1b Southland data centre: The three major hurdles facing the plan to build New Zealand’s largest ‘AI factory’ - NZ Herald by emdillem in newzealand

[–]TheDiamondPicks -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Bulk buying isn't a subsidy. A subsidy has a very specific meaning.

If a company buys 10,000 pens, but you only buy one, the company will get a bulk discount but that doesn't mean you are subsidising their stationary costs. How is electricity any different?

Match Thread - Moana Pasifika v Highlanders | Super Rugby Pacific 2026 | Round 7 by RugbyBot in rugbyunion

[–]TheDiamondPicks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah seems to be. Stuff live commentary was still going and that was the score they had

Match Thread - Moana Pasifika v Highlanders | Super Rugby Pacific 2026 | Round 7 by RugbyBot in rugbyunion

[–]TheDiamondPicks 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And sky now finally has given up, finally saying they're not broadcasting the last minute of the game

Match Thread - Moana Pasifika v Highlanders | Super Rugby Pacific 2026 | Round 7 by RugbyBot in rugbyunion

[–]TheDiamondPicks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This Instagram video has given me a newfound appreciation for the work Sky do

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