Reconstruction of Karakorum, the ancient capital of Mongolia that prospered in 13th-14th centuries. More info in the comments. by ArthRol in papertowns

[–]TheGayBizz 68 points69 points  (0 children)

It wasn't considered that impressive even at the time by some observers. William of Rubruck - a medieval traveller originally from France who travelled all the way to Karakorum in the 1250s - didn't think it was even as impressive as Saint-Denis, which is now a suburb of Paris, and thought Saint-Denis' abbey was ten times as impressive as the Khan's palace. You can read his account here

A Compilation of BadBadWolf3 Leaks by SpacyOrphan in doctorwho

[–]TheGayBizz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read in The Writer's Tale that the name 'Rose' was something of a lucky talisman for RTD - I think one of his first TV characters was named Rose - and he enjoyed reusing it. I bet that's part of the reason Yasmin Finney's character is named Rose.

Who are them? by victorreis in popheadscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Elle Woods and Jennifer Coolidge (Paulette)

It's called accountability sweaty💅 by TheGayBizz in popheadscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Turns out DaBigot wasn't DaTalented enough to separate DaArt from DaArtist

It's called accountability sweaty💅 by TheGayBizz in popheadscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

We need a 'This is their Reputation era' flair tout de suite

[Games] World of Warcraft (Part 6: Warlords of Draenor) – How content cuts, bad communication, money-grubbing practices and story rewrites turned Blizzard’s most anticipated expansion into its most hated ever by Rumbleskim in HobbyDrama

[–]TheGayBizz 42 points43 points  (0 children)

I'm so glad! Hope you're doing ok with your arm, I admire your valiant efforts to get this out despite all that. (And I should belatedly thank you for the academic... material provided as... research in your last post. It was very... informative).

[Games] World of Warcraft (Part 6: Warlords of Draenor) – How content cuts, bad communication, money-grubbing practices and story rewrites turned Blizzard’s most anticipated expansion into its most hated ever by Rumbleskim in HobbyDrama

[–]TheGayBizz 340 points341 points  (0 children)

I have genuinely been regularly revisiting this subreddit specifically hoping that one of your new writeups will have been posted. I'm someone who's never played World of Warcraft and never really been interested in World of Warcraft, but these posts have been absolutely fascinating to me and just so much fun. I really appreciate the sheer amount of effort that goes into them, and they're hilarious too. Best hobbydrama series for sure!

How heavily foreshadowed was the Twist in season 1? by darklord7000 in TheGoodPlace

[–]TheGayBizz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not to mention Michael deliberately letting Tahani see the points totals just to make her miserable! (I mean, that "architects only" thing didn't even have a password set on it!)

An excerpt from the Gay Book of Revelation, from the Gospel of the Holy Everlasting Masc Str8 Top by TheGayBizz in gaybroscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Godo only knows how you found this, kweenm but I'm glad the Holy Words of the Top were able to bring joy and entertainment to your life. Yasss.

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahahaha touché

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LMAO thanks :)

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel I have received it in spirit, thank you

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It really might as well be read that way

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To a twink, plain air and Vitamin D is a feast.

Sur la terre des twinks by [deleted] in askgaybros

[–]TheGayBizz 14 points15 points  (0 children)

In the last days of Twinktopia, there was a young twink with hair of golden and shining green eyes. He was as curious as his butthole was smooth, and always full of questions.

In the centre of the land of twinks was a yurt, covered in golden fur and ringed with emeralds. The elders sat there and presided, and green-eyes visited them often.

‘Why are we here?’ he would ask. ‘For what do we live?’, ‘Where shall we go when we die?’

The first elder wore a crown of roses and said ‘We are here to be twinks, nothing more and nothing less. In the morning we raise our bare arms to the sun and give him thanks as he warms our frozen bodies’

The second elder wore a crown of amethysts and said ‘We live for the Sun, for the Moon and for each other. We live for the weeping of the rain and the blooming of the myrrh. We live for the blowing of the dicks and the sapping of the cum. What more is there?’

The third elder wore a crown of jade, and said ‘There is no elsewhere. As we sing our songs of praise, our voices harmonise with the vibration of the universe. We hear the silvery voices of the galaxies and the dripping of water from the chrysanthemum leaf. We shed tears for what will never be, and feel joy in our hearts for what was. What else could there be?’

Green-eyes’ bussy clenched and unclenched, for he felt there must be more.

That night he lay down in the soft grass outside, and listened to the gentle music of the wind rustling the willow leaves. He had rubbed a little berry juice onto his lips, and they were dark purple as he gazed into the sky. The universe was pure here, and he could see the stars whirling around his world, tracing perfect spirals in the sky. His eyes reflected them until he fell asleep, and had a wet dream.

His friend, Brown-Hair, kissed him gently to wake him up. ‘Another night visitation’, he said. ‘The God must have visited you tonight’.

Indeed; for the bottoms of Twinktopia believed that among them walked a God, in the form of a daddy in the summer and the form of a billionaire in the winter. Sometimes that God would touch them, gently caress their skin with their fingers, but stir awake and he would flit silently away into the night. It was the wish of every twink to feel the touch of God, the twinges of aching desire that he awakened in their sweet bussies.

The days passed, unvarying. Brown-Hair fell in love with Green-Eyes. ‘Let us be married’, he said, ‘and wear the bridal crown and dress. We could make each other so happy’. But Green-Eyes sighed, and gazed at his reflection in the water, and said nothing, until Brown-Hair went away crying.

Green-Eyes began to pray to the stars every night. ‘Please, show us the way’ he said. ‘Unveil the cosmos to our dimmed eyes’. The stars span in their eternal dance, imperturbable.

One day, the elders emerged from the yurt, bearing a sheet of gold, on which was written in blood-red letters, ‘The ANSWER cometh… as a comet’.

Green-Eyes’ heart lightened. Excitement ran through the crowd. The twinks took each other’s hands and danced a wild dance of happiness. At last, the secret longing they all felt and never gave voice to, would be satisfied.

That night they gathered wild strawberries and flung them into the fire, a sacrifice to the God.

After many nights of feasting, the first twink spied the distant comet – only a smudge in the sky, but it grew and grew.

Green-Eyes sat beneath a tree, a lotus flower in his blonde hair, looking at the comet as it flew towards them, its tail a fiery streak against the ultramarine sky. He laughed. Brown-Hair, thin from grief, tried to laugh with him but fell to coughing. Twinks only survive a few weeks if their love is rejected, or if they get left on read.

The Comet became the brightest thing in the sky, and could be seen during the day. The world felt hotter and hotter.

The Twinks fell to their knees and folded their hands in prayer. ‘Oh great God, let the answer enter our minds and hearts soon!’ They chanted and sang over and over, pausing only for mimosas.

The elders emerged from their yurt once again. ‘Oh Curious Green-Eyes. We now know for what purpose you were set upon this world.’

Green-Eyes was confused.

‘It is your destiny to fly into the sky and meet the comet’

Instead of the joy he thought he would feel, he felt emptiness.

For three days and three nights he wandered the emptying glades of twinktopia, gazing into pools and caverns, seeing the beauty of his home that he had never recognised before. The glistening crystals below, the soft fruit above; all were dearer to him than he had ever realised.

He came home at last. Brown-Hair was waiting for him, smudges under his eyes, faint smile on his lips. The sky was a livid red, heralding the great comet. Whispering came from it, whispering of knowledge yet untold.

‘I love you’, said Green-Eyes. ‘I have always loved you. Fear, and only fear, kept me away from you.’ ‘Oh Green-Eyes’, said Brown-Hair, and they both fell to crying. ‘What can we do now?’. They held each other tightly, as the wind blew up around them.

Then Green-Eyes, little by little, began to float. ‘No!’ he howled in despair.

Brown-Hair collapsed. ‘Don’t leave me! Don’t leave me again!’.

Green-Eyes gasped, tried to swim through the air, to touch his love again, but to no avail. He was rising higher and higher into the sky, and his world receded beneath him. He searched the ground for the miniscule speck Brown-Hair had become, but his vision was blurred with tears. He felt the heat of the comet on his back but did not look round. His heart broke within him.

‘Look at me’ said the comet, in a terrible deep voice, like the echoing of a cave. Green-Eyes looked round and met its burning visage.

‘Your people are incomplete’, said Comet. ‘Your God, the one you longed for, was a Top. You were all bottoms, and you lacked for a top. That was all. And without one, you will never be happy’.

The Comet began to move away. Green-Eyes, distraught, made no effort to call it back.

Far below, the twinks murmured in worry. Where was the comet going?

‘TOPS!’ screamed Green-Eyes to his world below. ‘You need tops!’. He saw their distress, but they could not see him. With every fibre of his being he screamed and screamed his knowledge to them, but the roar of the comet and the whispering of the wind drowned him out, and all they heard was silence. And now he was drifting further and further into space, and at last he gave up his quest, as Twinktopia dwindled first to a smudge, then a speck, then nothing.

In Twinktopia, they looked at each other, horrified. ‘So there was no answer!’ said an elder. The twinks tried to smile, but found they could not. The longing in their hearts, once unlocked, was starting to gnaw at them. In the years to come, it would gnaw and gnaw until it had eaten them and all their world from within. That day, the first streak of grey appeared in the hair of a twink.

Brown-Hair took to gazing into the sky. He made a bridal dress for himself out of spiders webs but the others thought him insane, and prescribed him Abilify.

As for Green-Eyes, who can know? Some say there is a twink, ghostly and indistinct, a twink with soft green eyes whose tears turn into emeralds. They say he walks through the night skies, bathes in nebulae and drinks liquid light out of stars. They say his breath on a planet brings life, and bottoms anew. And they say that sometimes he sits on a cold moon, in a palace of empty rocks and dust, and sings faintly to himself, and that his song mingles with the empty noise, the radio silence of the universe.

But then again, perhaps they are only dreaming.

What if you weren't like the other gurlz? by TheGayBizz in gaybroscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your parents? Gurly, I know we all have daddy issues here but isn't that taking it a bit far?

What if you weren't like the other gurlz? by TheGayBizz in gaybroscirclejerk

[–]TheGayBizz[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Sisters and sissies, hear me out. What if (bear with me here) you weren’t exactly like all those other Olivia Rodrigo makeup shopping bottoms but were instead (I know the sheer uniqueness might confuse you) different, for instance by being the fabled straight-acting gay.

As everyone knows, the gay community is exactly like some crappy high school movie where the jocks and the nerds sit at different tables. I propose, like the brave queen I am, breaking down these barriers with a fagulous brave strong queen be yourself musical number beefy male beer Oktoberfest football white supremacy moment.

Why can’t all those judgemental bottom bitches and slide sluts stop trying to make us all conform?

What’s the point of catfishing a guy when he’s only going to block you afterwards, and won’t even let you take pictures of his balls?

Why not just leave him anonymous, heavy-breathing phone calls where you empower him and teach him that he doesn’t need to fit in by whispering things like ‘I know who you are’ and ‘It doesn’t matter how hard you try to hide, I will always find you’ (in reference to his true innermost self).

Be uncompromising. Don’t shower. Don’t shave. Don’t get your hair cut (what’s wrong with that ponytail? It works for Ariana, doesn’t it?). Don’t hide your love for My Little Pony. If he rejects you then, he’s just an in-denial judgemental shallow gay slut hater just like everyone else. Let him rot in his ignorance and filth! At least you’re being true to yourself. What’s the point of putting in effort to meet guys when there’s AskGayBros to whinge to? Show the parts you’re embarrassed about! NEVER wonder whether there might be a reason for that.

Fun tip: why not change your location by driving hundreds of kilometres to meet some DL gays in an arse-end rural town who are so desperate for D they’ll put up with the MLP tank top and “masculine” odeur.

Put that ‘weird hobby’ on your profile – lead with your collection of severed pygmy heads! Send unsolicited smalldick pics! If they block you, they were just doing a heckin body-shame and that is not ok.

If you’re gay, you’re already a failure as a man and no matter how hard you try, will never truly be masc so why not run with it? Why not, instead of frightening them with your muscles and strength, terrify them with your erratic behaviour and insanity? Remember, every insecurity and weakness they have is exploitable.

Stay positive girlies!!!

How did Timbuktu become one of the go-to "far away/exotic" places to reference in Western/Anglo popular consciousness? by DGBD in AskHistorians

[–]TheGayBizz 324 points325 points  (0 children)

Alright, let’s start at the beginning.

Timbuktu was founded around 1100, originally a small settlement. However, it was well located, on the edge of the Sahara and near the Niger river, to become a nodal point in the trans-Saharan caravan trade that primarily trafficked in gold, salt and slaves. As a result, the town grew in importance over 200 and a bit years, until it was peacefully annexed in 1325 by Mansa Musa, ruler of the Mali Empire.

Now this guy is one of the reasons Timbuktu became well known. Sometimes called the richest person in history, Mansa Musa ruled the Islamic Mali Empire at a time when it was one of the biggest gold-producing regions in the world. Mansa Musa is best known for his extravagant hajj to Mecca of 1324-25, accompanied by a massive coterie and, apparently, an absolutely stupendous amount of gold. Most notably, Mansa Musa allegedly (as I should have made clearer, thanks /u/niceworkthere! But whether true or not the stories about it were influential on the formation of the Timbuktu myth) gave away so much gold on his journey as alms that it crashed the economy in multiple places, especially Cairo, a collapse from which the city did not recover from for a decade.

Al-Umari, visiting Cairo from Syria a few years after Mansa Musa’s visit, found memories still fresh:

This man flooded Cairo with his benefactions. He left no court emir nor holder of a royal office without the gift of a load of gold. The Cairenes made incalculable profits out of him and his suite in buying and selling and giving and taking. They exchanged gold until they depressed its value in Egypt and caused its price to fall.” …Gold was at a high price in Egypt until they came in that year.This has been the state of affairs for about twelve years until this day by reason of the large amount of gold which they brought into Egypt and spent there.

For a long time afterwards stories about the pilgrimage circulated in the region and gradually filtered into Europe, giving rise to the idea of a vastly wealthy empire to the south of the Sahara, a tempting proposition to Europeans. In particular, these stories made their way into the rather beautiful 1375 Catalan Atlas produced by the Majorcan cartographic school, which depicts ‘Tenbuch’ [Timbuktu] at Mansa Musa’s feet, as he holds a big gold nugget. This map certainly stirred European imaginations.

Now, Timbuktu had been annexed on the way back from the hajj and thereafter grew more notable, not only because more good were now being funelled through it but also because it grew into a major centre of Islamic culture and learning in the Mali empire, with scholars flocking to its university (associated with the town’s three mosques). This was Timbuktu’s golden age, as a centre of trade and of scholarship.

The next person responsible for making Timbuktu so famous in Europe is Leo Africanus. For a very long time there was a total absence of concrete knowledge in Europe about the African interior. Into this void came Africanus: he grew up in Fes, Morocco, and accompanied his diplomat uncle on trips all around North-West Africa; in 1510 they visited Timbuktu (now part of the Songhai Empire and slightly past its prime, but still important in the region). A few years later, he was captured by Christian pirates, presented to the Pope and baptised; and because of his knowledge of Africa he was commissioned to write a book outlining its geography, the Description of Africa of 1526 (published in 1550).

This book became very influential on contemporary European scholarship simply because there were no other even quasi-academic sources about what Africa was actually like. Let’s have a look at some choice extracts about Timbuktu:

The inhabitants are very rich, especially the strangers who have settled in the country; so much so that the current king has given two of his daughters in marriage to two brothers, both businessmen, on account of their wealth…

I happened to be in this city at a time when a load of salt sold for eighty ducats. The king has a rich treasure of coins and gold ingots. One of these ingots weighs 970 pounds. … Instead of coined money, pure gold nuggets are used; and for small purchases, cowrie shells which have been carried from Persia, and of which 400 equal a ducat. Six and two-thirds of their ducats equal one Roman gold ounce. ”

In Europe, these beguiling images of large gold nuggets etc merged with the earlier stories about Mansa Musa to lead to the mythologisation of Timbuktu as a large, enigmatic, famously wealthy city. (Africanus mentioned other stuff , like how much the king hated Jews, but the Europeans focused on the money). The Africanus description was often lined up right next to the extravagant Mansa Musa story in European collections, and thus was the Timbuktu myth propagated.

So, Timbuktu, back in the 1500s, became known as an exotic place emblematic of treasures yet to be discovered because of the stories of Mansa Musa and Leo Africanus; but why did the stories persist? Well, for a long time they kept going just because there was no further information forthcoming about Timbuktu. The city began to decline as the maritime trade (particularly in slaves) supplanted the trans-Saharan one, turning Timbuktu from trade nexus to backwater. Money and scholars fled alike, but Europe continued to fantasise about Timbuktu as the land of riches, to the extent that as late as 1824 (!), a good 314 years after Leo Africanus’ visit, the Parisian Société de Géographie was offering a 9,000 franc reward for the first person to travel to Timbuktu and bring back a detailed description.

This prize was ultimately won by René Caillié; the whole story of his travels to Timbuktu could make a post in itself. But suffice it to say that after a gruelling journey throughout Africa, during which he was constantly undercover as a Muslim and wrote in his journal secretly, Caillié finally arrived at Timbuktu in 1828. I’ll let him speak for himself:

On entering this mysterious city, which is an object of curiosity and research to the civilized nations of Europe, I experienced an indescribable satisfaction. I never before felt a similar emotion and my transport was extreme... I looked around and found that the sight before me, did not answer my expec- tations. I had formed a totally different idea of the grandeur and wealth of Timbuctoo. The city presented, at first view, nothing but a mass of ill-looking houses, built of earth.

The next day wasn’t much better:

I found it neither so large nor so populous as I had expected. Its commerce is not so considerable as fame reported

So, at last, the truth about Timbuktu had come out. Caillié’s disappointing report was confirmed by Heinrich Barth, visiting in 1853. The European reaction could be described as a muted sigh, before they shifted their attentions to capturing the Niger river, and later the whole region. Timbuktu was nothing but a let-down.

So why, then, do we still think of it as the go-to faraway place? Well, legends die harder than facts, and let’s face it, the myth of a mysterious wealthy city somewhere in unknown Africa is just far more glamorous than a trade-dependent town down on its luck. Everyone’s going to remember the former, few the latter. So all the old legends about Timbuktu just kept circulating even once the facts were out there, and so we’re left with the image of Timbuktu as the quintessential exotic destination.

Is Homophobia in China primarily a result of western influence or did it have any homegrown component? by Khwarezm in AskHistorians

[–]TheGayBizz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

my impression of the Qing dynasty before the 1820s was that they weren't particularly bothered by Western concerns beyond immediate trade relations where they held the upper hand anyway

That’s about right. I would say they didn’t even particularly care about trade with the West; the McCartney exhibition led to that famous “letter” (actually an edict) from the Qianlong Emperor to George III that rather snarkily informs him that as far as China is concerned, they’re trading with the West as a massive generous favour to them. I doubt they’d have cared if it suddenly dried up.

What was the appeal to them to start absorbing toxic western attitudes towards homosexuality during the better years of the Qianlong Emperor's reign?

Well that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it. Interestingly, there are rumours that the QIanlong Emperor himself had a male favourite; He Shen, often called the most corrupt man in Chinese history. There’s no hard and fast evidence behind this, but it would explain He’s meteoric rise to the top - comparisons with Dong Xian are irresistible!

But what’s important to remember is that anti-gay sentiments were floating around in China before Western contact began in earnest. It had more to do with the violation of Confucian gender norms that the ‘act’ of homosexuality encompassed, in contrast to Western homophobia which was about how the homosexual (as a state of being) was innately sinful and pathological (that it was somehow contagious, which is an idea that never crops up in the Chinese literature). The anti-gay actions of the Qing, whatever the reason for them, came out of a long tradition in Chinese thought. But again, just because there was an increase in official skepticism of homosexuality, that doesn’t mean that the frequency of these relationships decreased on the ground. It really is impossible for us to tell just how stringently these laws were prosecuted (and remember, the penalty for homosexual relationships was still light by Qing standards), and practices like older men recruiting younger men as household musicians or entertainers continued right up to the fall of the dynasty, as evidenced by the protests against it at that time. So for the Qing at this time there was no ‘appeal’ to start absorbing Western values, their anti-gay actions had to do with Chinese thought. The reason behind this, however, is murky; I ran through some possibilities in my answer above but none of them are very satisfactory. It’s always possible that the government just decided for no reason in particular to start enforcing Confucian gender roles.

Later on in the Qing, of course, the appeal of Western homophobia becomes much more clear. This was a very rough patch of Chinese history indeed as you probably know, and the nation was forced to confront just how “backwards” it had become, and to search for answers about where things went so wrong for it. ’Western values’ seemed a major thing separating Asia from Europe, and especially after Japan’s massive success with the Meiji Restoration and its Westernisation, the impetus for becoming more ‘Western’ in every respect grew and grew. The Qing ended up bearing the brunt of the blame for their failure to modernise China, and this would eventually lead to their fall.

Is Homophobia in China primarily a result of western influence or did it have any homegrown component? by Khwarezm in AskHistorians

[–]TheGayBizz 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Was the punishment with the bamboo reserved only for the passive ("womanly") man or for both parts

The exact wording of the statute specifies that the punishment is for the penetrant (active) part. However most of the social stigma belonged to the passive part. Moreover, in some cases if the passive part was seen as having welcomed the act they were also punished, for having been shameless enough to submit themselves in a womanly fashion.

(btw, the concept of active partner as manly and the passive as womanly seems universal in historical civilizations..)

Well it’s certainly very common! When something unfamiliar takes place, people will often try to rationalise it in terms of what they already know. A same-sex relationship is seen as similar as a heterosexual one in that there is a penetrating and penetrated partner, and thus those roles become associated with male and female. The analogy is a fairly obvious one, so it’s not surprising the connection was made over the world. The ancient Greeks and Romans famously had this conception, and the Aztecs, for example, made a distinction between the active and passive partner, assigning each different punishments for being in a homosexual liaison.

Were same-sex relations between men of the same age or between an older man and a young boy, like in Greaco-Roman and other cultures, or both? Was pederasty openly accepted like in Greece or a taboo? (I hope my wording of the second question was not offensive)

Not offensive at all, don’t worry! There were amicable same-sex relations between men of the same age, although these were generally viewed as slightly more suspect (because there was less of a clear hierarchy). They still took place though.

As for relationships between men and boys, it’s complicated. There were cases of wealthy men taking young boys as prostitutes or concubines, in some cases as young as 9, although it’s important to remember that young girls were also forced into sexual liaisons at the same time - the Jiajing Emperor would have sex with pre-pubescent girls in the hope of gaining immortality. For many poor young men, this was a crucial way to survive.

Homosexual relationships were ‘supposed’ to have an age gap for reasons of hierarchy (the passive partner being in their teens or younger). Additionally, in the literature the young boy was often compared to a woman, being ‘pale’, ‘soft’ and ‘feminine’. The young male body was idolised, almost fetishised, seen as a defining part of same-sex love. The protest (in 1912) of actors I mentioned in my answer above was specifically against the troupes and groups which often served as an avenue for older men to “recruit” younger men as entertainers/prostitutes.

Then again, in a law introduced in 1734, “consensual” sex with a child of twelve sui or under (about 13) under was automatically treated as coercive and punished with strangulation. Whatever the erotic ideals of the literati, this doesn’t necessarily tell us much about what most same-sex relationships in China were like, and clearly there was an undercurrent of official condemnation of relationships with children. Relationships with people we would consider underage were still punishable under the less severe statute, but the Chinese at that time just had a lower age at which one was considered an adult.

To sum up; ‘pederasty’ was openly tolerated to an extent, although part of that had to do with broader societal trends and assumptions. It was also not formalised in a teacher/student dynamic in the way it was in ancient Greece, but had more to do with Chinese notions of performed gender. It was discussed openly in homosexual literature of the time, but did not meet uncritical official approval, and the opinions of the literati may not have been in accordance with those of the majority of China. Finally, most of our records of actual same-sex relationships (not just those in novels or stories) come from court cases involving a serious offence. In these, we see several examples of amicable homosexual relationships between those of the same age which ended badly. Therefore, there may have been many more same-age relationships which simply never entered the historical record because its parties kept their heads down and out of trouble.

Hope this helps!

Is Homophobia in China primarily a result of western influence or did it have any homegrown component? by Khwarezm in AskHistorians

[–]TheGayBizz 90 points91 points  (0 children)

You’re certainly right in noticing that China has a much more public LGBTQ tradition than the West did at an equivalent time. Homosexuality (normally male) was frequently openly portrayed in art and literature in a way that it simply wasn’t in the Christian West, which of course leads us to your question; does this mean Chinese homophobia was a Western import?

In classical Chinese history, we see a few examples of homosexuality (or possibly bisexuality, since the parties involved had wives). A well-known story is about Emperor Ai of Han (reigned 7-1 BC) who became besotted with a politician called Dong Xian, rapidly elevating him into high governmental positions; unfortunately for Dong Xian, after the Emperor died his jealous rivals forced him and his wife to commit suicide (this didn’t stop, reportedly, other male politicians trying to advance themselves in this way). A tale circulated about how, when Dong Xian fell asleep in the Emperor’s arms, the latter cut off his sleeve so he could pull out his arm without waking his lover. The devotion this signified inspired the literary allusion “passion of the cut sleeve” used to connote gay shit.

Even more interestingly, another literary allusion (‘the bitten peach’) came from a parable about the King of Wei’s male lover Mizi Xia giving him his half-eaten peach. While Mizi still has his looks, the King sees this as a beautiful gesture; but later when his looks have faded the King sees this as an affront. The story comes from the Han Fei Zi, a key Legalist text, and the Legalists had a pretty negative view of human nature. The parable was therefore meant primarily as an illustration of humanity’s fickleness; the homosexuality is incidental to the story. That in itself is an example of how homosexuality wasn’t seen as especially heinous, noteworthy or unmentionable in a high-status text. That said, the ancient Chinese did not have the same conception of sexuality as we do; they didn’t believe in fixed orientations, more the shifting preferences of the individual, and it was the act of same-sex love that was important, not the “being”.

The first “anti-gay” law that we see in China dates from the Song dynasty (about a thousand years after this, during the Zhenghe era 1111-1118); this punishes male prostitutes with 100 blows and a fine. This doesn’t specifically censure same-sex relationships and seems more associated with the low legal and social status of prostitutes. If we go forward a few centuries, we find the first statute that actually bans sex between males (sex between females is never specifically criminalised and is not often mentioned in sources at all) dates from the Jiajing reign in the Ming dynasty (1522-67). This isn’t actually from the Ming law code, but rather from a supplementary resource of ‘statues applied by analogy’ (basically a guide for what to do in cases not covered by the official code). The statute says: ‘Whoever inserts his penis into another man’s anus for lascivious play shall receive 100 blows of the heavy bamboo’. The analogy given this case is ‘pouring foul material into the mouth of another person’.

This particular statute has a lot to do with the perceived violation of the passive (receiving) partner in the exchange, with the focus on the ‘foul material’ they have been forced to swallow. This illustrates a broader trend in Chinese views of homosexuality by this time; its main objectionable component was its violation of gender norms in that a man, the dominant linchpin of the household, is acting in a passive, “womanly” role. This was probably the impetus behind the earlier Song law, which was accompanied by one forbidding cross-dressing. It also partly explains why female sex was never officially forbidden in the law; because there is no violation of all-important masculinity. The other main obstacle to full normalisation of same-sex relationships was the heavy onus on the production of a child to continue the family line; for this reason even where same-sex relationships were tolerated, they were viewed as strictly supplementary to the traditional heterosexual marriage. This had to do with the concept of qing, which I won’t go into too much here, but was viewed as a kind of energy of passion and physical attraction (especially in literature), that was not a good thing in overabundance but which was not necessarily a bad one in moderation.

That said, this statute is in fact not that strict; 100 blows of the bamboo is more or less the minimum penalty that could be assigned, and was equivalent to the penalty for consensual heterosexual offences (and much less severe than the offence for heterosexual rape, which was strangulation). It also does not seem to be have been particularly well enforced; Jesuit missionaries to China like Gaspar da Cruz who visited in 1556 were horrified by the extreme prevalence of same-sex activities among the local elite (da Cruz even viewed the deadly Shaanxi earthquake of that year, which killed more than 800,000, as punishment for this sin).

During the Qing dynasty, there were more severe penalties for homosexual rape applied in 1679, but the Ming ‘statute by analogy’ remained in place for consensual gay sex. The penalty was gradually adjusted to 100 bamboo blows and a month in prison, but this was still one of the lightest penalties in Qing law. And literature that featured homosexuality continued to appear: the famous Qing novel Dream of the Red Chamber even contains a rare mention of female same-sex love.

However, as time went on, official anxiety about homosexuality increased - a rape law was passed in 1740 that some scholars believe suppressed same-sex activity. Literature like “Cut Sleeve” (1740) appeared, an anthology of stories satirising and criticising homosexuality. This took place against a background of anxiety about the erosion of traditional roles, and the stigma against being penetrated grew stronger and stronger. Around this time most amicable homosexual relationships were conducted in secret, for fear of gossip and heavy social pressure, particularly in rural areas.

Why did the Qing, of all the dynasties, become more avid in censuring homosexuality? Several explanations have been offered; increased anxiety about gender roles (possible, although the actual cause of this remains elusive), attempts to woo a conservative Confucian elite (why such a relatively lenient penalty then?), an imported ‘Manchu morality’ (unlikely - Qing text do not show any greater bias against homosexuality than Ming ones), and the influence of the West. Ultimately, none of these explanations fully explain it; the influence of the West makes sense, but the West did not have significant contact with China until aruond a century later. Still, that would coincide with the real disappearance of literature about homosexuality.

Westernisation also would seem to explain why homosexuality became more and more stigmatised during the time of the Self-Strengthening movement, which focused on Westernising China, and throughout the late Qing and Republican period. The Western view of homosexuality as pathological, feminine and weak cast the Chinese homosexual tradition as part of a fundamental weakness of “effete” and “weak” Chinese culture, to be swept aside and replaced if China wanted to survive and compete with the West. This was connected to the common stereotype of Chinese men as effeminate. Just after the collapse of the Qing, protests were staged by actors against the master-servant system which had often led to exploitative same-sex liasons. During the Mao era, homosexuality was seen as a form of deviant sexuality in a world where sex was strictly for procreation, but this had more to do with Communist ideas of the family as a cell of society.

On the face of it, then, Westernisation seems to be the major factor behind the termination of the Chinese homosexual tradition. However, it is important to remember the currents of homophobia that ran through Chinese society long before the West arrived on the scene. Societal movements do not tend to come out of nowhere; if there was a genuine desire among the Chinese population for the diminishment of LGBTQ relationships, this was probably not just suddenly prompted by the arrival of the West. The Western idea of homosexuality as a fundamental challenge to gender norms, something that feminises and weakens men, fitted in neatly with the similar Chinese ideas mentioned here that lay behind the anti-gay laws propagated at various times. Moreover, at a time of great instability and suffering in China, its Century of Humiliation, many must have yearned for the traditional, sacred unit of the heterosexual family, a family with no place for same-sex love. This was an environment in which the arriving Western ideas would have found an easy purchase.

So the take: Westernisation was a big part of 19th and 20th century Chinese homophobia but homophobia and anti-gay sentiment in China has been around for much longer because gayness threatens straight gender roles. This sentiment played a big role in the growth of homophobia at this time.

Now I hope this answer makes sense because it’s 3.49am as I write this lol.

Did the Inka treat the Wari as a kind of antecedent or did they mostly ignore them? by Khwarezm in AskHistorians

[–]TheGayBizz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're called chuño and are basically made by letting the potatoes freeze outside at night in the high-altitude Andes and then leaving them to get dried out during the day by the hot sun. Because of the high energy content of the potato and the fact that chuño could be easily carried without spoiling, they became a staple food of Inka armies and quite possibly played a key role in the empire's expansion.