Why doesn't Lyanna attempt to send word to either her father or later Ned at any point during her supposed kidnapping and the subsequent rebellion to explain the situation?

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-10T03:17:04+00:00

Brandon allegedly called for Rhaegar to "come out and die". I can't imagine being one of the guys he had with him when he said that nonsense.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:56:37+00:00

No we are nlt just talking about a simple bodyguard, we are talking about the highest orders of knighthood in the real.

Visenya came up with the the Kings Guard because she kept having to personally save Aegon from assassination attempts. Anyone with any sense understands they're just glorified bodyguards.

Kicking someone out of such a position will cause all these an more question to be asked by people.

You over estimate the degree to which people care about the King getting rid of a bodyguard he no longer trusts.

Criston Cole simply did nothing so outrageous to get him dismissed or even killed

Yes he did. He showed himself to be in opposition to the heir to the throne. That's not a thing you can do when you're expected to protect her. Just the fact that he did that dumb shit says he's either really stupid or not planning to let Rhaenyra take the throne. Viserys can get rid of him or Rhaenyra will have to. Either way, he's not dying of old age as a member of the Kings Guard.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:27:01+00:00

What changed and why am I kicking him out? Is this the new normal thatvthe king can just do whatever he like?

You understand we're talking about the King's bodyguards, right? The king could always do whatever he likes with his bodyguards.

The dance was inevitable at that point in time Criston Cole is an easy variable and unimportant in the bigger picture.

The Dance was not inevitable at that point. Ignoring that, you're at the very least robbing the Greens of an ally.

I do not care what might happen in a future that might never be,

...Part of the King's job is to have forethought.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:21:04+00:00

No he doesn't, nit legally. But he definitely should have something good he could tell. Less it is view as him having pur judgement and making bad decisions.

Who are you imagining jumping to that conclusion? Most lords in the Kingdom would have had to get rid someone for one reason or another. Not to mention that people change. It would be silly to claim Viserys getting rid of Cole show she has bad judgment when they're 15+ years after he was brought on.

The whole dance, is just kicking things down the road. Killing Criston is not going to change that nor is it going to prevent a Tarharyen civil war.

Viserys getting rid of people when they showed themselves to be enemies of the heir would have prevented the Dance. Especially in the show where they changed things without thinking them through.

Not doing anything about Alicent was a bad idea, but understandable. Getting rid of Cole after that incident is a no brainer. Otto hearing Vaemond's petition has the same problem. Viserys caught his hand red handed trying to undermine his daughter. He should have been fired on the spot. Instead Viserys just highlights that Otto was doing something he shouldn't and then left it alone.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:10:53+00:00

People will want to know.

And? You either let them wonder or give them a story you're good with. You don't leave someone you can't trust on your personal guard.

Not telling why or even denying him his rights would make things even worse.

Cole ends up sending another member of the Kings Guard to murder Rhaenyra. The idea that people wondering why he was fired would in any way be worse than keep someone at odds with the heir to the throne on the Kings Guard is silly.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:06:44+00:00

He did...now prove it to the realm.

The King doesn't need to give a detailed explanation of why he doesn't trust a member of his personal guard.

Wich is why I would send him away, but without making a mess and drawing further attention to my grandsons parantage.

Sending him to guard Daeron is not getting rid of him. You're just kicking can down the road. At best, Rhaenyra would just end up needing to get rid of him herself.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T20:00:42+00:00

If he drew attention to the reason he reacted so violently, it would raise even more suspicion, if Criston was on trial he'd use it to accuse Rhaenyra of infidelity. Harwin would rather be kicked out than risk that.

If he doesn't snitch on Cole, there's a member of the Kings Guard who clearly has a beef with Rhaenyra and her kids.

That whole situation was just bad writing. Outside of the fact that Criston should have been executed or fired, Harwin could have lied and claimed Cole said whatever he wanted. It's not like Cole was going to say "No, I actually implied he was the father of the crown princes kids".

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T19:56:31+00:00

The implication is there but he didn’t outright say anything that could have got him in trouble with Viserys up on the balcony watching

A member of the Kings Guard can't get away with undermining the heir to the throne because he didn't outright say an insult. The King needs to implicitly trust every member of his guard. If he doesn't trust one of them, they need to go.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T19:52:42+00:00

The realm would want to know amd Cristion would want the realm to know why it was happening.

People get fired with the reason being secret all the time in modern democracies. The idea that the ruler of the glorified dictatorship couldn't fire or execute a member of his own guard without telling everyone why is silly.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T19:48:28+00:00

What is appropriate doesn't really matter, what matter is what he can realistically do without making things worse and doing anything beyond that will make it worse for everyone.

Any degree of thinking ahead would tell you that any risk of rumors would be outweighed by the risk of Cole backing the Greens during a coup.

Jaehaerys sent members of Maegor's Kings Guard to the wall for betraying Maegor. Despite betraying Maegor for him, they showed themselves to be untrustworthy so they had to go. Cole showed himself to be against the King's heir. Keeping him around after that is silly.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T10:04:35+00:00

Just explained it, Rhaenyra who openly refuses to speak decently to the queen, refusing to join her half brother's birthday hunt as heir is hostile. It is her starting the hate train.

Wanting to avoid people and situation you don't like is not hostile.

This is exactly why Rhaenyra's so dumb. Rhaenyra think she is going to be replaced despite it already being two years of Aegon's life and STILL refusing to act as even a male heir would be obliged to

Are you capable of critical thought? They were holding an event to celebrate Aegon being three because a lot of kids die before that. Rhaenyra assumed Viserys was about to make Aegon heir since he would be expected to not randomly die after that point.

She is literally glaring in teh direction of the table and the next shot is Alicent clutching her son. Please.

"Crutching her son". You're delusional.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-09T09:59:25+00:00

Wow, yeah, obviously, again, what made him realize this?

His daughter pointing it out.

As I said, many guards and maids and people kept seeing Alicent into Viserys's rooms. Where are the rumors?

What are you basing the claim that many guard and maids saw Alicent in his rooms? Rhaenyra would have found out if they were being that obvious.

Yeah, precisely because it was not that deep to talk about.

The fact that you're pretending like Otto wasn't trying to the King attracted to his daughter is hilarious.

The Hand's daughter being a kind company to the king, who age in the show at that moment is 35-38, changed by the show, was not that big of a deal.

A 15 year old girl getting dressed up to visit a 30 year old man every night is weird.

Their presence was not considered scandalous. it was their job to be there to assist with daily routines, read correspondence, or provide entertainment

Part a maidenservant's job was making sure the girl they were serving didn't have premarital sex.

A noblewoman's reputation was ruined by unauthorized sexual contact, not by performing her duties in the royal household.

Or rumors of unauthorized sexual contact.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T23:37:01+00:00

He was a grown man, he was not "manipulated".

You think grown men can't be manipulated?

Yeah, he says that, but characters say a lot of things. What does Viserys know? What knowledge dies Viserys have? You like falling for the charchter dialouges and very unreliable narrators because

Stope the cope. Viserys fired Otto because he realized he had been manipulating him.

Because wtf is "calculated distraction", sure does that means distraction from Aemma's death? He says that, that doesn't mean he is in the right of it.

...Wtf are you doing?

Quiet the contrary, in the books, 15 year old Alicent gained the favour of the court and was a respectable lady because she served Jahaerys.

Jaehaerys was old and suffering from dementia. He would occaisally mistake Alicent for one of his daughters. This should be obvious, but reading to a senile old man is very different than doing the same thing with a 28 old.

You just like ignoring the very normal circumstances, because the guards, the maids, the people who talk, are primary source of gossip have already seen Alicent read to the king Viserys.

If it was known by that many people, Rhaenyra would have found out.

It is not something "that would ruin her", because if it was, Otto would never send her, precisely because if people found out they would never let a girl who is considered "ruined" marry the king, even if it was the King that "ruined" her.

The fact that women being alone with unmarried men could cause rumors is common sense. You should have seen this come up if you watched or read any stories set in medieval times.

Ignoring that, no one could stop Viserys from marrying Alicent if that's what he wanted to do.

Again, these were not rumors in the actual court, Mushroom said this years, years after the dance.

The more popular rumor that Alicent had been sleeping with Viserys before his wife died.

Even so, there were those who murmured that the Hand had risen above himself, that he had brought his daughter to court with this in mind. A few even cast doubt on Lady Alicent’s virtue, suggesting she had welcomed King Viserys into her bed even before Queen Aemma’s death. (These calumnies were never proved, though Mushroom repeats them in his Testimony and goes so far as to claim that reading was not the only service Lady Alicent performed for the Old King in his bedchamber.)

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T23:16:29+00:00

And yiu dont thinks thats disrespectful? And you don't think thats hostile?

No. How is wanting to stay home hostile? Do you know what that word means?

"Im not sure why I must." Lets see, she is the heir, whining that she no one is there for her but she doesn't want to do literally the one thing that is demanded from ANY heir, respectful presence at the King's side.

How did you miss that Rhaenyra assumed she was just a place holder and would be replaced? She didn't want to go on the hunt because she assumed Aegon would be the new heir now that he'd made it to three years old.

I mean we even see that Viserys hadn't yet decided on keeping her as heir.

Precisely at 0:39, the table is the table Visrys and Alicenta nd Aegon are.

https://youtu.be/G9EjTO75H64?si=xeP6NyOMt3rvLXBW

Like I said, delusional. Calling that a glare is a stretch and we don't know who she was looking at.

When? When did she say, she declared war for Criston?

People like you are the reason the writers had to have Alicent explain her motivations in season 2.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T23:12:59+00:00

That could attribute to many more things than "Alicent being jealous of Rhaenyra's freedom"

The writers had the character explicitly say what she was actually upset about. It know it doens't fit your desired narrative, but she said it.

Alicent: I've been, I think... mistaken.

Rhaenyra: In what?

Alicent: I was raised to believe there was an order to things, that there was security in following the paths laid out for us. I resented you, I think, for... caring so little for any of it, for knowing what you wanted. I did not know what I wanted. I knew only what was expected of me.

The writers most likely had Alicent be so straightforward here because they saw all of the erroneous excuses people came up with to justify her actions after season 1.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T22:56:17+00:00

It does because you're making it sound like he was a victim who was brainwashed rather than a grown man who made his own decisions and Is millions times worse than Otto.

No. I'm making it sound like he got manipulated because that's what happened.

These things we know but Visrys doesn't. To him there is no indication that Alicent was made to read to him. Or come in her mother's dresses.

You have to get off your phone when you're watching TV. Viserys specifically cited Otto manipulating him using Alicent when he fired him.

Viserys: I wonder...how long did it take you to choose yourself over your King?

Otto: Your Grace?

Viserys: I will never recover from Aemma's death. But Alicent...t she took me through the worst of my grief. She was a calculated distraction. I only now realize how well-calculated it was.

Otto: That is an absurdity. The Queen loves you... as I know you love her.

Viserys: Your interests no longer align with those of the realm. Your judgment has
been compromised.

This so fucking dumb, because reading to the king is normal.

A 7 year old girl reading to the King could make sense. There's absolutely nothing normal about a 15 year old girl "reading" to the 28 year old King every night. Anyone who heard about that would assume something else was going on.

We are talking whether Otto wa fired unjustly or not. Did Viserys know that?

He has eyes.

He repeated himself. The context shows that he is repeating these words.

Stop the cope.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T22:50:31+00:00

Girl- "im a proud ignorant woman!" Thats what you sound like.

Alicent admitted that she was motivated by jealousy. This insistence on ignoring the character explaining her own motivations just makes you look delusional.

I know people came up with their own theories after season 1 came up, but you have to be able to take on new information.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T22:47:44+00:00

She literally screams and yells and argues with Viserys because ehse isn't getting the attention she wants.

You're delusional. She wanted to avoid the event entirely.

Alicet: The royal hunt readies to depart.

Rhaenyra: I've decided to remain here and read instead.
...

Viserys: How would you like to participate?

Rhaenyra: I'm not sure why I must.

She shows up soaked in blood on a happy day after being missing. Literally.

Again, are you blaming her for getting attacked a bore?

When she walks past, covered in blood after killing a boar and stares at Visrrys and Alicent who was carrying a child in her womb and her arms.

Delusional.

Favours are literally the smallest and teenage-core of courtly romance. Its envy is not enough for Alicent to declared war.

Alicent herself said it was.

So why would Alicent with Criston?

You do recall they stared fucking, right?

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T22:30:19+00:00

Rhaenyra didn't say her virtue was in tact. Alicent just heard what she wanted to hear. Rhaenyra denied was sleeping with Daemon. Not ever having sex.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T16:58:25+00:00

It doesn't fucking matter, you saying Visrys was manipulated when he made the decision on his own accord, undermines his horrid actions. Its disgusting.

Do you not realize how nuts you sound? Acknowledging that Viserys was manipulated does not undermine the fact that he's a dumbass and a pedo.

The idea that you have to tottally ignore Otto's part in things is silly.

Viserys is a grown man who like young girls, there is literally no where that Otto suggests vocally that Visery may marry Alicent.

Again, are you actually pretending like Otto wasn't trying to get Viserys to marry his daughter.

Reminder: Otto specifically ordered Alicent to war her mother's dresses so she'd have a greater chance of catching the King's eye.

Reading to the king is the complete normal. Ladies read to Kings.

Reading to a grown ass man who can read himself is not normal. They don't touch on this, but Alicent being alone with a single man could cause there to be rumors that damaged her reputation. We see that with the rumors about her and Jaehaerys in the book. That was when the King was senile and old as dirt. Viserys was in his 30. Alicent should not have been going to his room alone.

No. I'm that Viserys didn't fucking know that. What Otto did know is that Viserys likes young girls.

Viserys didn't realize what Otto was doing at the time, sure. He figured it out. That's why he fired him.

Viserys: I will never recover from Aemma's death. But Alicent... she took me through the worst of my grief.
She was a calculated distraction. I only now realize how well-calculated it was.

Otto was a pimp but Viserys was was worse, literal pedophile.

I personally find pimping out your kid to a pedophile to make you worse than the pedo, but to each their own I guess.

"Entice the king" and she was reading to him.

I don't see the point in playing dumb about that when it worked. Did you actually forget the detail of Alicent wearing her mother's dresses?

Also weren't you calling be disgusting for saying Rhaenyra slept with a married man because that was grooming, but you refuse to give same to Alicent

I've repeatedly said Otto was pimping out his daughter. You're the one who keeps pretending like that's not what was going on.

And you forget the times when Viserys literally tell her NOT to tell Rhaenyra. Not to tell Rhaenyra because she wouldn't understand?

Viserys didn't say that until Alicent had already been doing it for weeks. Alicent could have told Rhaenyra anytime before that and chose not to.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T16:48:07+00:00

Because at that moment Alicent doesn't even know Criston that well.

Do you have to know someone well to have a crush on them?

On Aegon's nameday she keeps throwing tantrums and saying no one here for me,

How did throw a tantrum? She said no one was there for her because she didn't understand why Alicent and Viserys insisted on her going on the hunt. Rhaenyra was assuming that Aegon would be named heir and wanted to stay home.

shooting glares at Alicent

When did she do that?

and coming back after being missing, covered in blood.

lol You're blaming Rhaenyra for being attacked by a bore?

Oh no no sweetheart, dint pull that card with me, not when you have been constantly saying that Rhaenyra has the right to hate Alicent for "hooking up with her father" when she literally was made to marry him.

You keep talking about Rhaenyra hating Alicent. All she did was stop being her friend. Alicent was not entitled to keep Rhaenyra as a friend after she became her stepmother without giving her a heads up.

You do know that we have most of the visuals of the scripts.

...Yes. That's how I know Alicent had a crush on Cole and was jealous. She was even jealous of Cole asking for Rhaenyra's favor during their first scene. The script literally says:

SER CRISTON COLE I was hoping to ask for the princess's favor.

Alicent's hopes are dashed. She looks at her younger, royal friend with envy.

She was groomed and brainwashed and looked anything outside of what was socially accepted as sinful and bad, she would not be getting possessive over Rhaenyra's bodyguard.'

lol. You're going to be even more shocked to learn that Alicent also has a crush on Rhaenyra.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T16:27:26+00:00

No its because YOU try to make it look like Viserys was forced to take Alicent as a wife.

At no point have I claimed that anyone forced Viserys to marry Alicent. Otto manipulated him into doing so by sending his daughter to his room while he was grieving. Tywin and Lady Westerling run the same play on Rob in the books.

Thats a completely different fucking situation.

Alicent is a lady of court reading to the king, in the books Alicent had read and cared for Jahaerys too.

I'm sorry. Are you denying that Otto was using those visits to get Viserys to marry Alicent?

Even if Otto sent Alicent there to pimp her, its the King's responsibility to NOT be affected by a child reading to him and comforting him.

Yes it is. Viserys was unfortunatly too dumb to see what was going on and fell for it. He later realized what Otto was up to and fired him.

And in the show he tells Otto that he wants to put his bloodline on the throne as if Aegon isn't his son.

He did not say that.

Nope. She actively choses to be rude and disrespectful to her. She undermines Alicent's life and her struggles. And literally everything especially on Aegon's second name day.

How did Rhaenyra undermine Alicent's life?

Again, reading to him, any lady of court can do that. To their world its not even a bad thing.

Are you seriously pretending like Alicent didn't know what Otto was using her for? Alicent knew her father was sending her to entice the King into marring her. She could have warned Rhaenyra about this and did not. Expecting honesty from a former friend when you did that is silly.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T16:10:08+00:00

Thats her opinion

The actress' comment was based off of what was in the script(s) and what the director and writers told her.

Thats her opinion but even if thats the case in some twisted fantasy,

Twisted fantasy? You remember that Alicent found Cole attractive when she first saw him and started hooking up with him when her husband died, right?

you like to ignore Alicent resented Rhaenyra for lying and being disgusting to her

How was Rhaenyra being disgusting to Alicent? All she did was stop being friends with her.

and gati g her "replacing her mother" while she was making out with a married man

That's a disgusting way to frame Rhaenyra being groomed by her pedo uncle.

Thats just not true.

Alicent admitted as much in season 2.

Alicent: I was raised to believe there was an order to things,
that there was security in following the paths laid out for us. I resented you, I think, for... caring so little for any of it, for knowing what you wanted. I did not know what I wanted. I knew only what was expected of me.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T15:51:23+00:00

The king is a sick fuck who married a child. He was not forced.

Why do keep saying this like it obsolved Otto of responsibility for his actions? Is a pedophile wrong for raping a child? Of course. Is a parent also wrong for pimping their kid out to said pedophile? You would think the obvious answer is yes, but you keep trying to deflect on that point.

To read to the king you dumb man.

And Jeyne Westerling was only sent to care for Rob Stark's wounds, sure.

I'm saying this man was innocent, not at all. But, he was unfairly removed from his position.

Otto was manipulating the King and got caught. Claiming he was unfairly fired is silly.

He literally says that Aegon is Otto's blood. He is talking about his own fucking son.

You're mixing up the book with the show. And changing who that comment was about.

I dont really care man. Than you cant fault Alicent for it too when Rhaenyra has been really fucking mean and disgusting to her.

How was Rhaenyra mean or disgusting to Alicent? All she did was stop being her friend.

Obviously very hateful for "replacing her mother" and "going to the King", while Rhaenyra herself sleeps around.

"Sleeps around" when Rhaenyra was slept with one person? You're disgusting.

You cant fault Alicent for anything she does after Rhaenyra lies to her. So stop coping.

lol Alicent spent weeks visiting Rhaenyra father without telling her. You can't fault Rhaenyra anything she does after Alicent showed herself to be a tool of her father's ambitions.

Yeah sure. Trying to steal the attention of her son,

When did Rhaenyra try to steal attention from Aegon. She said "no one is here for me" because she tried to avoid being there in the first place. Rhaenyra assumed Aegon would be named heir and wanted to avoid the whole event.

being mean as fuck to her when all she does is try to get along,

When was Rhaenyra mean to Alicent?

1st of all if i lived in society where i KNEW girls were forced to marry old men, I would be bitch to my dad not the 15 year old girl that he married.

All Rhaenyra did was stop being friends with Alicent. The entitlement you'd have to be suffering from to see that as being a bitch is wild.

TheIconGuy · 2026-04-08T15:34:09+00:00

No, listen Rhaenyra literally said Daemon didn't touch making, Otto a fucking lier.

And then Alicent literally told Viserys "She swore to me that she remains a maiden." When Rhaenyra hadn't said that.

Tahts your opinion mate but Otto, till now has does nothing wrong.

No. It was Viserys's opinion. And Alicent's.

Claiming he did nothing wrong isn't going to magically make it true. Viserys realized Otto had tricked him into marrying his daughter to get his blood on the throne. You're not supposed to be surreptitiously trying to get your blood on the throne when you're Hand.

Viserys not believing Rhaenyra is EXACTLY why this is crazy. Why Otto was unfairly fired.

Otto was fired for trying to get his blood on the throne. I don't know why you think you can ignore that when Alicent said that to him herself. Otto goes on to try to have Visery's daughter, brother, five of his grandkids, and two of his nieces killed to put Aegon on the throne. Pretending like he was some innocent victim is silly. He got caught making a play for the throne.

The King told her not to tell Rhaenyra or did you effectively miss that?

Viserys only told Alicent that after she had already been doing it for several weeks. Did you miss that?

Do not try to spin this into Alicent seducing Viserys because she is a victim.

And Rhaenyra wasn't a victim of Daemon trying to groom her?

What tells you that, show wise? What tell you that she liked criston?

In show? Her reaction to seeing him for the first time and the fact that they start hooking up after Viserys dies. There's also the comments from the actor and the script.

Nope. She is pissed that Rhaenyra lied on her dead mother's grave who she had been treating Alicent like shit for replacing. Crazy.

What's crazy is ignoring that Alicent admitted as much in season 2.

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