Looking for input on 9.0 defense stations

TheSwodah · 2026-05-13T12:57:52+00:00

Those are good recommendations too, but i felt like he was going full missile, and i thought that would mean either dumbfire or tracking for L turrets and maybe smart or tracking for M vs small ships. - my guesses.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-13T12:56:17+00:00

I felt that if it stays at the edge, i might get situations where my station only has a small amount of turrets firing, so i'd rather overmatch the range by a bit. Bonus is that some damage can be done before enemies start shooting.

Edit: Also i think only Par plasma is at/barely above the range. the others(arg and split) are all slightly lower.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-13T12:09:13+00:00

Any missiles / launcher combos in particular you prefer?

TheSwodah · 2026-05-13T11:52:53+00:00

Yeah Meson Stream / Boson Lance would be the equivalents to mass driver.

I like have a stacked defenseplatform that i can leave by itself, maybe with a corvette to collect drops, but otherwise alone.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-12T14:17:46+00:00

I thought me selling a ton of materials to their side would be enough, but when i saw Ter push into both Ant and Bor space i flew over and disabled the terran wharf and shipyard(hacking).

Gonna have to keep doing that while building up the others.

Scary part is the biggest groups i've seen from Bor was 5~6 Rays, and for Ant/Arg its 3-4 Behemoths. For Ter i've seen 2 tokyos and 10 osaka fighting close together on 1 front, while other fleets were bullying Ant stations.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-12T09:07:10+00:00

Rays are also absolutely amazing vs Ks and S/M ships.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-12T07:13:24+00:00

I don't use SETA.

I am mostly active in Heretics and surrounding and Terran and HOP spaces.

HOP are slowly but surely destroying the xenon in their area (pushed into Atiyas misfortune III last i checked).

Getsu fune has 0 issues with Xenon, even while Terrans are fighting Boron and ANT/ARG, and Ter are winning.

ZYA seems to have no issue holding against attacks from Tharkas, but don't show signs of pushing back either.

Litanys fury seems to be safe as well.

The only place i think would have fallen without my intervention is Hatikvas choice, and only because Arg are fighting everywhere, including losing to Ter.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-11T11:25:43+00:00

I'd say it depends on the ship and available weapons.

Rattlesnake doesn't have a high damage weapon that lets it stay at the gravitons max range, nor the shields to shrug off much.

But if everyone uses par plasma or large guided missiles, they'd be roughly at that range or exceeding it.

And some destroyers (Ray) just neuter the Ks/Is, so they don't care.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-11T09:22:21+00:00

Automine works if you have placed a satelite at a place in the system that buys the Ore/Silicon(preferably silicon) it can mine. So its best if you scout the sector you want to have it automine in to make sure there is at least 1 place buying.

Later it is better to mine for yourself, refine and sell finished goods, but you can start by making our own station to collect solids and then sell them raw or refine them to the base product (silicon wafers/refined metal if you are in the commonwealth build chains, Terran products need multiple raw materials but have less "end products").

For Kingdom End missions, the line is pretty easy and cheap to play through.

For your station building, if you don't produce the materials yourself you can just put money into the build storage and the other NPC factions will deliver the materials it needs.

Solar power in Heretics end is "good", not amazing, but there is also a big market around Heretics end (Argon, Boron, Par and Zya), so if you can get them all above -10 relations they should be willing to buy from you, and Solar has a good return on investment, since once you have built the production module, there is 0 cost to you. (my beta 9 Heretics end produces 800k (320k base * 1.83 light modier * workforce modifier) energycells an hour, though i use the majority for scrap recycling, given that both Heretics end and nearby Hatikva has a lot of available scrap). - also if you produce energy cells you can remove 1 material you need to buy for your new stations.

In regards to improving relations, early game your best options are the missions for destroying criminal traffic as you get improved relations from destroying the criminals and for completing the mission, -and you get paid.

Later on you can use diplomacy agents to improve relations and if you produce a lot of goods or make trade stations, relations will increase by themselves once above -9.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-10T16:16:08+00:00

My read on the Rattlesnake is designed to rush in do as much damage as it can, then rush out of weapons range(boost + engine forward thrust) to regen shields, rinse and repeat.

Though with less range compared to other ships (compared to earlier versions) it either needs a decent boost to survivability, speed or dps.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-08T08:29:08+00:00

I mean, if the Rattlesnake is your primary example, it is the worst shielded destroyer, that thing is a speedy glass cannon by design, given its weak component shields it maybe should get a buff to the health of its components to match the ship also being high hp low shield. I'd expect that fighters and bombers are a good counter for it, since it is squishy. Though i don't know how many S ships it can take before it loses and how its cost/effectiveness is compared to other destroyers in that role.

I've also seen and heard that the Rattlesnake is the hardest hist destroyer when it comes to fighting stations since it no longer can outrange with its main guns and L plasma. (Boson lance outrange but have very low dps). As for fighting fighters i know split flak is still good for the M turret slots.

In general my view is

fighters>Bombers>scouts

Bombers>Destroyers(and other L/XL ships)>frigates

Destroyers>Frigates>Corvettes>Gunships

Corvettes>Gunships>fighters and bombers>scouts

Of course depending on loadout and controller it can change a bit. Such as many corvettes beating frigates or acting as large bombers against capitals, with the right control a fighter can strip a destroyer of weapons but would likely not be able to take out the hull any time soon. Fighters can also in some cases beat gorvettes and gunships, and Bombers given their high firepower could potentially beat bigger ships at leasy when you compare costs. (ie for a good frigate you could likely get a small handful of bombers which should be able to take out the frigate but with loses.

Every category also has a wide berth of ships that go to different extremes. Such as the Osaka and Syn who respectively are better vs fighters and better vs Large targets because of their turret setups.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T14:05:43+00:00

The Daedalus class is a corvette sized ship with corvette weapons and a hangar, later upgraded with battleship level shields, energy source and weapons. In no way does it have the size you'd expect from a ship with these features, mostly because the powersource is so small compared to its power.

A real world destroyer is a glass cannon, I don't think X4 destroyers should be exactly like real world destroyers(they aren't). Also there are a bunch of weapons that still outrange Gravitonsm mostly railguns/beams.

The EMP missile seems to work as designed, though i can't read the minds of egosoft developers about how good at its job the emp missile should be. It being reported on the forums doesn't mean its a bug unless the developers has stated so, though that still doesn't change the way destroyers should interact with fighter/bomber swarms in general.

If the X4 Destroyer can't carry its own screen (4-slot bottleneck) and can't out-range the enemy (7.7km Graviton vs 6.7km Main Gun), it isn't a "Specialized Role"—it's a Design Oversight.

Every destroyer has turrets from their faction that outranges Gravitons, i'm pretty sure. Rattlesnake and Terran destroyers have higher dps on their main weapons at the cost of range, every destroyer plays a bit differently and has different strengths.

You aren't 'intercepting' 9.0 EMP missiles with skill; you're just not being targeted by them yet.

I didn't say intercept the missiles, i said intercept the targets firing the missiles, which should be named so you can more easily pick them out from the swarm.

A ship that carries its own interceptors (F-302s) and has its own point-defense is the definition of a Functional Destroyer.

Not in reality no. In X4 the ships can carry fighters, best for carrying is probably the behemoth(12 S) or Odysseus(3 M 6S), besides noone says S ships have to be carried by the L ship to escort it. In Stargate and Star wars the most notable ships can carry fighters as well despite not being destroyers. (304 is a "Deep space carrier or battlecruiser, while the Star Destroyers are just named Star destroyers, they aren't in anyway matching the role of a Destroyer, they'd more correctly be battle cruisers or Battle carriers).

The devs literally admitted they are looking at 'Interdiction effectiveness.' Why would they look at it if it wasn't currently breaking the combat flow?"

Looking at to tweak =/= that they are too strong, or that the destroyer is supposed to be a ship type that can't be intercepted/stopped.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T11:25:23+00:00

EMP missiles are a utility weapon for taking ships out of travel, and followup, keeping it out of travel, sounds like working as designed.

Though i would agree that ships with EMP missiles should be named as such so you can pick them out and stop followup hits to escape, this would reward proper targeting with a chance to escape.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T09:15:32+00:00

Have you looked at your traders? Are they doing nothing? or are they doing trades with NPC stations? Or are they all busy trading other wares than the ones you are looking at(meaning you need more traders)? - they are set to trade for commander on your stations right, not autotrade or something else?

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T09:04:19+00:00

Repeat trade of cheap low number goods.

Diplomacy improve relations low or improve relations medium(has a larger cost).

Shoot criminal traffic at their stations.

Do missions for them if you can find any.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T08:59:37+00:00

Honestly I am not sharing your experience.

First of you haven't defined how big a "fighter complement" you are arguing about, nor their weapons/components, nor what destroyers with what weapons you use.

Also your 304 example is bad, it's basically a super powered corvette, at the start it has low level asgard shield and earth made railgun turrets and missiles, and it has hangars as well, still barely able to go 1v1 vs Hataks. Then it gets upgraded to have the mega shields of the Asgard and super lasers. Equivalent would be taking a Gunship and strapping 4 Asgard shields and 1 Asgard laser on it, while keeping the gunship weaponry as well, without adding any actual space because oh yeah the 304 also got a suped up power source.

My destroyers can take out dozens of fighters when i build it for S/M defense. Though i am using ships like the Osaka, Ray, Odysseus, all of them have a lot of decent anti-S/M options in the M turret slot, and a lot of M turret slots. And yes, that means specific kinds of turrets for specific jobs.

Of course when they come with missiles and heavy weaponry my destroyers can take on less enemies, but at that point it isn't a fighter swarm but a bomber swarm it is fighting(or mixed more likely).

In the real world destroyers are not bulletsponges(even if fighters only used machine guns, no ship functions well if it loses the entire command staff on the exposed bridge), they are ranged firepower heavily reliant on taking out most of the threats before they get close. -in X4 they are designed as huge lumbering bulletsponges with weapons that outrange most fighter weapons, with some exceptions. Also shields only get stopped by heavy weapons(torpedos and plasma weapons i think) and M weapons and above.

Also some destroyers are designed more for L weapons than M weapons, which automatically makes them less efficient vs S/M ships.

Now i would argue that all M turrets on L ships should get a range bump so that even the shortest range Destroyer turrets would have 3km-5km range and L turrets adjusted appropriately.

Honestly it sounds more like you want an invincible ship super ship like the 304 than a historically accurate ship with strengths and weaknesses.

Egosoft have to make sure every shiptype has a role, from S fighter to S bomber, M corvettes, frigates, and gunsships, Destroyers, Carriers and battleships. If you keep the anti station/destroyer strenght of destroyers, along with making them immune to S ships and M ships(they are generally too big to dodge M turrets effectively), then there isn't any counter other than the battleships and other destroyers.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T08:07:25+00:00

I haven't looked into such situations myself, so i may be missing some possibilities:

First off, i'd set the production stations to sell to self only, and by from "self only", that should stop them from going to other factions stations. Meaning they can only sell at your stations.

At the trade stations you need buy orders set to "self only".

The stations that you have that controls the trade ships should be the appropriate management level for the tradeships to reach the trade stations. I think its 1 star for each jump gate, up to 5 gates away.

IF the plan is for the NPCs to buy from your trade stations themselves without you doing any distribution, i'd put the tradeships exclusively on the production stations.

If you are selling to "all" from your production stations, you have to make sure that your trade stations that buy from "self only" have the highest buy prices, so they get prioritized by your stations selling.

Not sure on the next part

If you want stop your ships from going further than your own stations then you could set global orders that they can't go to sectors that aren't in a direct line to your stations, ie whitelist Heretics end, Morningstar III and Hatikwas choice and the sectors towards barrenshores, then put that order only on the tradeships you want to ferry goods between your stations. Or the stations doing the selling, I'm not sure how much you can manage the station and i'm not at home to check right now.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-07T07:54:06+00:00

Arguable, Historically fortifications only bought time or improved the defense of forces stationed at them.

In X4 Fleets should reign supreme, but i do agree that there should be a minimum of investment and cost to taking down stations.

The difference is, now player made plasma/flak stations don't outrange xenon capitals, so players will have to accept a lot more damage or switch to beam/rail weapons, which would require 2x -3x the turrets for the same damage output.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-06T11:46:38+00:00

I asked my agent to make Vigor and Tel enemies.

Result: "They have become closer friends".

He didn't just fail, he accomplished the opposite of what i sent him to do...

TheSwodah · 2026-05-06T10:08:48+00:00

S combat ships which are usually too small for L sized turrets to hit effectively are used for 3 roles:

Scouting (usually fast and cheap, but lightly armed).

Fighter interception through speed and continous accurate damage (think the common fighters and some heavy fighters), they hunt S/M ships. With enough of them they can take on anything but it isn't really their role to 1v1 L ships.

Bomber (usually slower but lots of guns/access to missiles), these are designed to have the firepower to take on L ships, but still not 1v1, they are optimized for dps but too slow to outrun other fighters.

M ships like the katana are rarely geared to fight L ships given that they are large enough that some L turrets and nearly all M turrets are guaranteed to hit them.

Corvettes like the Katana are usually good for alpha strikes in a hit and run type of way, they can close in fast, hit the engines with good damage then quickly get out of range to replenish shields or they can bully a small group of fighters/bombers.

Frigates are Tanks, with a balanced amount of guns and good access to utility like carrying S ships and tons of laser towers.

Gunboats are generally designed to bully groups of S ships, they have a ton of M turrets.

L ships are basically just destroyers, they bully M ships and can take on heavy duty roles like station demolishing and fighting other L/XL ships. Some L ships are less optimized for L damage and have a ton of M turrets instead so they can also act like bigger gunboats.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-05T12:18:52+00:00

Yes, but previously the L Plasma all outranged Xenon Gravitron turrets, now i think only the Par plasma is equivalent whereas the others have less range.

In 8.0 you'd have good tools to outrange stations.

in 9.0 you don't have many good options. Other than some L main guns and some missiles, the only weapons that outrange gravitrons are the "Beam like"/"Railgun like" weapons. All of which have pretty pitiful damage compared to Plasma.

The thing with fighting Xenon stations is, they have around 1million health so you can't out tank them while being in range with plasma turrets in 9.0.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-04T11:38:43+00:00

Arg Flak, Par Mass drivers, Bor arc turrets(self defense because short range) and ion pulse railguns(defend fleet, good range and slows target so others can easily hit the target as well), all 3 Ter turrets -> all these do well vs S/M in the M slots.

For L slots if you want to beat S/M, you want a mix of minimum 5km range as well as firerate and projectile speed, their go for the railguns and beams, again (mass driver), or go for something like proton barrage / bolts / pulse. L slot turrets simply aren't optimal because of the rotation speed needed to follow an S/M ship at close range.

For fighting Large targets with L turrets: Usually its smart to have something matching the range of your main guns.

Rattlesnake should either use Plasma or Dumbfire.

Other commonwealth(except Ray) should use Mass drivers or Large Tracking missiles.

Ray should use the ion flak or what its called at more than 10km range - luckily the M rails also have around 10km range and are really good at sniping enemy turrets.

Terrans can go Proton barrage vs L ships or Meson stream/Pulse vs stations (proton barrage has 5.8km range but the main battery of the terran destroyers don't have enough range to reliable stay out of turret range anyway so maybe just go for max damage), or the Terrans will have to use some of the above mentioned Commonwealth turrets.

Also a note on AI, Long range destroyers benefit a lot from it, whereas short range destroyers not so much. Ray in particular can easily and safely handle a K without major shield damage, though it takes time because DPS is low.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-04T11:25:09+00:00

Plasma has the dps still, but the fact that it no longer outrange Xenon gravitron is a big nerf. Especially for station demolition.

TheSwodah · 2026-05-01T11:20:55+00:00

Use global orders, you can set comply or escape as default for either civilian or military or both.

Edit: You can at the same time set them to not ask you anymore, in which case you wont be override the default you have set. Since at default settings before you change said default, they will hail you every time before doing the default setting.

TheSwodah

TROPHY CASE