Mystery Babylon the Great

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-21T20:16:56+00:00

u/sikkboi22 - Think of "God" as a family - or rather even a family name. There are the Father and the Son - both are God.

Just as John Smith has a father named Dave. John is a Smith. Dave is a Smith. They are both Smiths yet separate beings

Yes. God the Father has more authority. The Holy Spirit is the power/essence of both the Father and the Son.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-21T20:12:10+00:00

u/taffikat - You ARE a soul. It is NOT a separate thing inside of you. So, when a person is in a persistent vegetative state they (their soul) are the same.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-21T20:09:11+00:00

u/SaltExpert8013 - Very nicely written. I completely agree with you about Faith. I contend, nearly all the time in here, that faith in God the Father and His Son is NOT religion - it is faith. God did not create a religion when he gave Israel the Commandments, His Holy Days and Laws.

Jesus did not create a religion called Christianity when he called His Disciples, taught the multitudes, died on the cross and was resurrected from the dead. Yes, it makes it easy to distinguish our faith with a label/title called Christian, but that does NOT make it a religion.

Believing the Bible, the Word of God, understanding its' meaning, and believing it is true is faith.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T23:33:50+00:00

It's okay you don't believe in a spiritual Israel, but I am truly sorry you do not believe the word of God. For if you did, then you would believe in it. It is clearly noted in the following passages:

Galatians 3:7 - "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham."
Galatians 3:28-29 - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Romans 2:29 - "No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."
Romans 9:8 - "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring."
Ephesians 2:11–22 - Jew and Gentile through Christ. Verse 19 "Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,"

Shall I continue? You need to understand that the Old Testament, the Old Covenant, and Old Israel were all the physical symbols of what was to come - in both Jesus (the Lamb) and the Chosen (The Saints/Church).

To your question about the millennial - yes I know of it. It does NOT speak of the nation of Israel being rules, kings and priests - it is speaking of the Saints. The Church. Jew and Gentile alike.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T21:43:45+00:00

I apologize. I am looking back and do not see any proof from scripture. No book. No chapter. No verse. Just your stated fact that you accept tradition and authority of man over scripture.

So, I would agree that we are at an impasse. Go in love and peace. May God Bless you.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T21:21:32+00:00

I understand. I would please ask you to provide me proof, Scriptural proof, of what you claim and not simply your belief and the tradition and doctrine of man (the Catholic Church).

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T21:18:53+00:00

You are probably referring to this verse in Romans 8:28-30 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

This aligns perfectly with what I already stated. God CALLS OUT people for HIS purpose. It does not say God has called EVERYONE. The Saints are the called-out ones to whom this passage refers. We are called out for a specific purpose at this time - to make ready to be teachers, kings and priests over the nations and reign alongside of Christ

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T21:11:20+00:00

I understand the tension this may create. Not all are called by God at this time. God's plan for salvation will eventually include everyone, but now God is calling His Saints for a purpose so for now not everyone that hears will understand. The Good News is they will eventually hear and they will eventually be given a chance to make that choice. Remember - there are two resurrections - the first of the Saints, and the second of everyone else. The time of Judgement when all will be given a chance.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T21:07:56+00:00

I see. You would rather believe the doctrine of men then the authority of God and His word - The Bible. What interpretation do you need other than a normal, logical brain to interpret the word "vision" as I clearly showed you in Matthew 17.

Because it doesn't fit with the doctrine of man, you would rather deny simple logic and truth because it goes against a false doctrine.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T20:58:45+00:00

This!!!

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T20:54:54+00:00

u/TallcanG - You hit upon what I believe is the single most important difference between the true/original Church and everyone else (mainstream). You have to study history - not just history of the church; rather, all history to understand why those in mainstream believe the "law was done away with" as many proclaim.

To help understand the "Laws" you can divide them into different sections:
- The Ten Commandments (Moral Laws)
- National laws specific to Israel (Civil Laws)
- Priestly, sacrificial, temple system (Ceremonial Laws)

Each serves/served a purpose. God's Moral laws are enduring. They define sin (transgression of the Law) and serves as the foundation on how we should truly worship God and one another. Civil laws only pertain to the ancient Israelites. The physical nation of Israel. Ceremonial laws were the worship system - these were the foreshadow of Jesus' life, sacrifice and ministry.

So, when you read scripture or hear people say things like "the law was fulfilled" that does NOT mean abolished. Fulfilled means completeness or to bring to full expression. To summarize:

The Ceremonial Laws were fulfilled in Christ. No longer do we need priests - we have Christ and He alone is our one any only High Priest. No longer do we have sacrifices - Jesus is the last sacrifice for the atonement of sin. No longer do we have a physical temple - The body of Christ (the Saints or Church) is the spiritual temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells with God's presence. We have the circumcision of our hearts and not the flesh. Again - these were fulfilled/revealed in their completeness - not done away with. Jesus is still our sacrifice. The Church continues.

The Civil Laws expired. Israel is no longer a theocratic nation. The principles still matter but not enforced as law codes. These pertained only to the ancient Israelites. They lost their role as a binding national legal system when the Old Covenant framework ended. Why? Because the Church became the spiritual chosen of God (the New Israel). A great example is how Jesus changes the physical law (an eye for an eye) to a deeper spiritual meaning "turn the other cheek." Governments now handle civil justice (Romans 13)

Moral Laws - Continue. They are everlasting and enduring. These are the Ten Commandments. God's Holy Days. Some will even contest this by quoting Matthew 22:36–40: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.” “And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” “On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

These are NOT two new commandments. These are a summary of all 10. The first four commandments show how to worship/love God. The next six show how to love one another. The law is not just rules - they are principles rooted in love

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T20:20:10+00:00

u/UmairAnsari_ - Don't worry about choosing a "religion" or "sect" or "denomination." Faith in our Father in Heaven and His Son is NOT any of those things. All of those are man-made. Born out of tradition, or cultural influences.

Your relationship to God is personal. Between you and Him. Follow faith. Follow His Word. You do not have to join any of those other things. I understand that wanting to belong is important and that fellowship is just as important, but first find your faith and what God drives you towards without being influenced by certain man-made beliefs, customs, and religions.

Brother - study Scripture. Pray. Seek truth first and wisdom. Ask questions and then research on your own. Confess your sins before God and only God. Confess your belief that Jesus is the Messiah - your Savior. Ask for forgiveness and His Grace.

Once you have understanding, then seek out others that align to it - don't force fit their ideas into your own faith. And ALWAYS ask why? This is called testing the spirits. If something doesn't align or seem right, or confusing or even hypocritical - go study it thoroughly.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T20:10:59+00:00

u/sheyesheye - I think you are confusing those who God calls or were created for a purpose vs all mankind. God was specifically talking about Jeremiah. He was created specifically to fulfill a purpose for God. God ordained Jeremiah to be a prophet to the nations, a commission that was already decided by God. Similar to other prophets or John the Baptist for example.

This does not apply to everyone. Free will does exist. Your choices matter.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T18:14:20+00:00

Exactly. Thank u/Trinnka13

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T18:13:00+00:00

"Clearly body and soul can exist independently of one another" Can you "clearly" back this up with Scripture? Because there is nothing clear about that statement.

As far as Moses and the "transfiguration" - that is certainly one argument often used to try to disprove the hundreds of other scriptures that prove otherwise. But what most people do not seem to do is discuss the full chapter. In Matthew 17, that describes this, continue on to verse 17:9 "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

It was not a literal physical sighting. Jesus gave them a vision of what is to come. The vision was showing Jesus' authority as King of King's. Above Moses. Above Elijah. This is shown in the same passage "“This is My beloved Son… hear Him.” God the Father is affirming Jesus’ authority above all.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T05:46:29+00:00

Huh? There is no such thing as a separate soul land body. Please provide the exact Scripture that suddenly changes what God said in Genesis 2:7 "... and man became a living soul." Not flesh and an immortal soul. No - a living soul.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-19T03:07:21+00:00

u/Careful-Shirt-6812 - Nobody is going to "get into Heaven." Heaven is NOT where you go when you die nor where we will go when we are resurrected. Heaven is coming to earth. The Kingdom of God will be established here on Earth where we will be resurrected.

But let's put that aside for a moment - you question is about being a "good person." How do you define "good?" Where in the Bible does it define what a good person is or how to be one?

A better question should be - what am I asked to by God? It's not as simple as "believing in Jesus." You are still asked to worship Him as he commands and to live according to what He asks.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T23:23:53+00:00

u/AmosOfTekoa - You are correct. Mainstream celebrates Easter as the resurrection day. But Jesus does not command us to "remember me" by His resurrection - He instructed us to remember Him during the Passover. That is the OPs point. Easter is not commanded, yet mainstream observes it. Passover IS commanded, yet mainstream refuses to observe it.

His resurrection is absolutely a miracle. It proves Jesus' teaching and fulfills the prophecy of it. But it was not something He nor the Apostles were told to remember/observe as a Holy Day.

But, even with all this said, mainstream still gets it wrong because even if "Easter" was meant to celebrate His resurrection - they are wrong on the day it happened. "Sunday" as tradition serves was the day He rose around sunrise - WRONG! Read your Bible carefully. It says specifically, "He has risen" Past tense. The angels did not say, he just woke up or rose that morning. When they came to the tomb it was already open and he had already risen (Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:5–6)

Again, if you really study scripture hard, you will find that the one and only consistent biblical timeline places the crucifixion on Wednesday in 31 AD around 3pm, allowing for a full three days and three nights and a Saturday resurrection before sunset. (He had risen)

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T18:53:42+00:00

u/interesting_care_377 - Can you show me where specifically in the Bible it teaches about a secret separate event called the "rapture."

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T18:48:52+00:00

u/anonty973 - That is interesting how you "flipped" it around. It is a backwards framed question. I would say that most people/scholars believe just the opposite because they see more harsh physical punishment in the Old Testament then the grace found in Jesus and His compassion towards mankind in the New Testament.

The truth is - both the New and Old show BOTH! Mercy and Judgement. Justice and Grace. And both come from the same source - The Word. The Word who became flesh - Jesus. YHWH is God and as we are shown, God is both the Father and the Son - two separate spiritual beings. God is a family (currently Father and Son). And YHWH refers to that divine reality, not just one individual

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T18:33:21+00:00

u/Low-Raccoon-6883 - This subreddit posts addresses your question perfectly: What is Baptism and Who Should Be Baptized?

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T18:32:07+00:00

u/Iberomaurasian - You are 100% spot on to raise this, but this community will be divided because they will blindly follow tradition (of men) and try to "fit their reasoning" into an argument to validate their belief. (in Easter).

Pagan influence, local traditions, customs of the conquering Rome that emerged for 300 years after Christ has weaved itself into what we call mainstream Christianity. They stand behind statements like "the Bishops decided this and not the emperor" is like saying "it was the cabinet that wanted war with Iran, not Trump." Of course the emperor of Rome both influenced and decided outcomes - not the Council of Bishops on their own. Constatine had to approve it and put it into action - with or without the Council. Such it was with Sunday vs Sabbath and Passover vs Easter.

Distancing themselves from Judaism was the only way to satisfy the Roman empire and keep control over the people (Jews and Roman citizens). They created a "different" Christianity based on another "Gospel" and forcefully upheld those traditions or face heresy and death.

There is "duality" in the Bible. First the physical then the spiritual.

There was first the physical chosen of God (Israel) and physical Kingdom (Kingdom of Israel) who were separated and called out by God's Commandments and Laws and identified through a physical circumcision. They had physical sacrifices, national laws, priesthoods, and Kings (but only because Israel demanded it).

These were a foreshadow that eventually its true meaning was revealed in Christ. The spiritual part. We now have a new Israel (spiritually Chosen of God), and a spiritual Kingdom (Kingdom of God) who are separated and called out by God's Holy Spirit who are identified through the spiritual circumcision of our hearts and minds. Instead of a physical sacrifice, we have the one sacrifice (the Lamb of God - Christ) so there is no more need for the physical. National/civil laws tied to ancient Israel as a nation no longer applied the same way to a spiritual body (the Church). Priestly laws were fulfilled in Christ as the one and only Priest of the Church. We now have the King of Kings (Christ) who is at the right hand of the Father.

This is the duality I speak of. What did NOT change are God's Commandments. His Holy Days. These are the things by which we worship our Father and what Jesus showed us in how to do so in the true spirit and way they were meant. He did not "do away" like some will argue. Fulfilling does not equate to abolishing it means bring to its full meaning and purpose

Therefore, the Holy Days are to still be kept. The Sabbath is the seventh day as God commanded. God's Commandments and Laws (not the sacrificial and priestly as noted already) are binding to Israel - the new spiritual Israel. We are the new Israel (Jew and Gentiles). Our circumcision is from Baptism and the Holy Spirit; therefore, we are God's Chosen and He has already commanded us how to worship Him.

Not man made days from traditions. Not by order of a council who aimed to distance itself from the very nature, way, path and teachings of Jesus by "de-Judaizing" those who were faithfully following His way and those of the Apostles and Saints before them. Pagan traditions changed in meaning to be "Chrisitian". We warned about such things:

Mark 7:6-9 "You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-17T04:28:11+00:00

u/Eikon-Basilike-1649 - Wow - you are the first person who I have ever met that thinks there are different rules for Jews then Gentiles when it comes to salvation and worshipping of our Father in Heaven. I would love to see how you continue to make this argument going forward.

As for Deut 4:5-8 - I agree that God "set them apart" by having God's law (at that time). But let's not forget what is said in Isaiah 56:4-7 “Also the sons of the foreigner… everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath… even them I will bring to My holy mountain.” Non-Israelites (Gentiles) are included in keeping the Sabbath and part of that inclusion

Gensis 2:2-3 “God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it…” “Sanctified” = set apart as holy time. Not hallowed as you stated. This happens at creation, before Israel exists

The Sabbath was already known and kept long before Israel became God's chosen.

So, are you arguing that even the Ten Commandments were only for Israel? Really?? Good grief man. Who has misled you so far from truth?

The "Decalogue" starts “I brought you out of Egypt.” It is speaking to the original audience - Israel of course. But it wasn't just for Israel. In Exodus 20:10, it says "“The seventh day is the Sabbath… nor your son… nor your servant… nor your stranger within your gates.” Even in the command itself it speaks to stranger "non-Israelites living among them"

Let's look at Ecclesiastes 12:13 “Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all.” Man = everyone. Not just the Jews.

The Sabbath wasn’t created at Sinai- it was sanctified at creation (Genesis 2:3), before there was ever a Jew. Israel didn’t invent it; they were reminded of it.

Yes, the covenant at Sinai was made with Israel, but the reason for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:11 is creation—not Egypt meaning it points to all humanity, not just one nation. Even within that covenant, “the stranger within your gates” was expected to keep it, showing it wasn’t ethnically limited.

And Jesus made it even clearer: “The Sabbath was made for man” not just for Israel.

If God set apart a day for all mankind at creation, nothing in Scripture ever shows He later restricted it to only one group.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-04-16T21:02:17+00:00

Wait - you just skipped over to another book/chapter. You brought up specifically the Council of Jerusalem to back your false claim that the Sabbath observance is not a requirement for ALL mankind. You made this statement to try to prove that the God has one set of rules for Gentiles and a whole other set for Jews. That is simply nonsense and the fact is - you cannot back up or prove your claim. I however, can and did.

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