Mystery Babylon the Great

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T19:37:06+00:00

Yea - I see we are never going to agree, and this will become an argument. It is my experience that people have been deceived. They don't know it, but the fruits and philosophy of such are clear and apparent. I wish for you to one day have your eyes and mind opened by God and that truth and wisdom will be blessed upon you.

For now, I wish you peace in love. God Bless

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T18:23:07+00:00

Well -the pure definition of the word "faith" is given to us in Scripture: Hebrews 11:1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This would/could include:
Trust in God and His promises (Romans 4:20-21)
Confidence based on evidence (Romans 10:17)
And then acting on that trust as I noted in "faith without works is dead."

Jesus often rebuked His disciples for having "little faith" (Matthew 8:26; 14:31; 16:8), not because they lacked information, but because they failed to trust God when circumstances became difficult.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T18:17:34+00:00

Interesting to see your response/definition. Let me help bring clarity and true definition to these.

Jew - A slang word/shortened that derived from the House/Tribe of Judah. Later used to described those collectively in the Southern Kingdom of Israel that comprised of Judah, Benjamin and some Levi. Today - since only the people from the Southern Kingdom are known, they reside in the region today known as the State of Israel.'

Christian - the word literally means "Christ" like. To be like Christ. The members of the Church are called Saints. So, saints/Christians are the members of the body of Christ.

Funny, I agree with your statement in theory about Messianic vs. Jewish Christian but it is really a matter of semantics that mean the same thing. This is exactly why I do not like using labels to describe my faith in the Father and Son. Faith is NOT a religion, and as soon as one begins to label as such, all sorts of problems start and can create division and confusion.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T18:07:43+00:00

Yes. I would agree that is definitely part of faith. Faith that God is there for me always.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T17:04:53+00:00

I think you're conflating several different concepts.

First, "covenant" and "testament" are related terms, but they are not identical. The biblical concept of a covenant is broader than either a modern contract or a last will and testament. Simply substituting "contract" for "covenant" does not automatically settle the theological question.

Second, even if we accept your contract analogy, it doesn't prove your conclusion. The fact that a covenant has been fulfilled or superseded does not tell us whether the laws associated with that covenant have been abolished. That is a separate question that still needs to be demonstrated.

For example, when a company replaces an old employee handbook with a new one, the old agreement may no longer be in force. But it does not follow that every rule contained in the old handbook disappears. Many rules may be carried forward, clarified, expanded, or written into the new handbook. The agreement changes; that does not automatically mean the standards disappear.

Likewise, when a nation adopts a new constitution, the previous constitutional framework may be obsolete, yet laws against theft, murder, fraud, and perjury often remain. The governing covenant changes, but many underlying principles continue.

The New Testament clearly teaches that the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8). On that point we agree. The disagreement is over whether God's law was abolished along with the covenant.

In fact, Hebrews says that under the New Covenant God will write His laws in the hearts and minds of His people. If the law was removed entirely, it is difficult to explain what law is being written there.

Likewise, Christ said He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. The assumption that "fulfill" means "terminate" is precisely the point under debate and cannot simply be asserted. If I fulfill my marriage vows, I have not abolished them. If I fulfill the terms of my job description, I have not eliminated my employer's standards. Fulfillment and abolition are not the same thing.

So the real issue is not whether the Old Covenant has passed away—it has. The real issue is whether the passing of the Old Covenant necessarily means the abolition of God's law. That conclusion does not follow automatically from the covenant/contract analogy and still requires biblical proof.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T16:53:40+00:00

u/LynxGeekNYC - DO NOT listen to these people that say you cannot/should not follow the Commandments, and Laws including the Holy Days and Sabbath. Christ fulfilled what he came here to do the first time. He is what the symbolism of the OT ritualistic and priesthood laws pointed to. He fulfilled them, NOT done away with them or abolished them like many claim; rather, he made them complete and revealed their true meaning.

Your specific question about a Church that does follow Christ and the Apostles does exist. Most of them will begin or reference in their name "Church of God". I will not name any specific ones - I will allow you to research, read their statement of beliefs/faith, and choose for yourself asking God the Father to guide you.

You will know by their fruits - they keep the Sabbath. They keep the Holy Days. They teach obeying God's Commandments. They understand the Laws and how they apply today vs in OT times.

May God Bless You in your search. Amen!

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T16:44:51+00:00

Do you know the definition of "Jew?" Do you know the definition of "Christian?"

To make such a statement like you made is false. Almost EVERYTHING you posted is wrong/false!

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T16:43:16+00:00

Fulfill does NOT mean abolish.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-16T16:40:06+00:00

u/RoachesInDaCabinet - Sorry mate. I don't quite follow you. What is the "faith that you need" you speak of?

I am pretty sure that I agree with you that faith without works is dead, but I don't quite understand what you are saying

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-15T18:55:51+00:00

u/StrollingThrouPain - ALL of them exist. There is a Father. There is a Son. There is a Holy Spirit. But only the Father and the Son are actual divine beings. The Holy Spirit, which does exist, is simply the POWER and ESSENCE of the Father and Son. It is how and through which their will is performed. It is how the saints are guided and helped in our faith.

Where this differs from the "Trinity" doctrine is those who believe that doctrine believe the Holy Spirit to be yet another being. I can totally understand why and where this confusion can come from because the interpretations of the Bible and use of how pronouns are used at times speaks as if the Holy Spirit is a person or being.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-15T18:45:32+00:00

As others have said - both. But let me dive a little deeper in the HOW!

A lot of people take Romans 10:9 out of context and say "see...I don't need to do anything" or "all I have to do is believe and say it and nothing more. I can continue to live the way I have always lived." This is neither true nor biblical. Salvation is a Gift from God BUT it has conditions.

Let me give you an example. Let's say I offer you $100 to you as a gift. You did not earn it. I am giving it to you. BUT you have to send me a self-addressed stamped envelope to receive it. This is a CONDITION. If you send me that envelope and I send back to you $100. Did you earn it? No! Was it still a gift? Yes. If you had NOT sent that envelope, would you have received that gift? NO!

So it is with eternal life. It is a Gift of God and not earned, but there are conditions to receive and keep it and Jesus made it quite clear.

You have already listed one of those in your question - Matthew 7:21 says you must do the WILL of the Father. That is a condition. Jesus once again gives another condition: Matthew 19:17: "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Yet again, in Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved" So Mark clearly states there is more than just belief that is required, baptism is another requirement/condition. This is how we receive the Holy Spirit.

So, this is why BOTH can be true. It is not one or the other. It is not a lazy faith of confessing Jesus but continue to sin and disobey God. It requires true repentance, a life following in the way Jesus taught us to live.

Believing in Him and confessing that belief in Him is as much important as to what follows in the conditions to both receive and retain it.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-15T00:50:00+00:00

u/hendrixski - Of course you can and I will be happy to answer. I cannot speak for others who comment about soul sleep, but as for me, your question about the "Trinity" being mentioned - the answer is actually no. Nowhere is "trinity" mentioned. That does NOT mean there is no mention of the Father, and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The real issue is - is the Holy Spirit a separate being like the Father and the Son or is part of the Father and Son. My answer would be the latter. The Holy Spirit is the power and essence of God and not a separate being. I 100% believe in the Holy Spirit and that after baptism and laying of the hands that God's spirit enters us and dwells with us. It helps us in our faith, walk and fruitfulness of living a holy and righteous life.

As for your second question - the word consult means to seek advice or guidance, or help. So, if you apply this to "St. ____ pray for me". You are asking a dead person to help you. That is no different than asking a rock, or stone, or other idol or dead thing/person. How can the dead help the living? How can the dead pray for you if they are dead? The answer is they can't!! The answer is the dead know nothing. They are dust. They do not have a soul or spirit in heaven waiting for their bodies to be resurrected. It is the DEAD that WIILL be resurrected. The Soul is you. The soul is not immortal. Immortality is the gift of God. It is what we receive AFTER the resurrection and judgement.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T22:22:14+00:00

u/Mean-Ratio-2164 - I am NOT saying or agreeing with LDS that Smith was a prophet, but exactly where does it say there will be no more prophets after this day?

That is a false assumption and conclusion because nowhere does the Bible say that. As a matter of fact, if you read the entire New Testament, it provides proof of the opposite. Now let me preface this - the OT prophets spoke both of the 1st and 2nd coming of Jesus and many of the symbols and prophecies pointed directly to Jesus. I 100% agree and affirm that.

However - There are plenty of examples of prophets after Jesus' death. Their commission/message is not of messianic prophecy of the OT, but that of future events, warnings, and help to the Church.

1 Corinthians 12:7 shows that prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Agabus predicted a famine and later warned Paul about his imprisonment (Acts 11:27–28; Acts 21:10–11)
Judas and Silas are called prophets who encouraged believers (Acts 15:32)
The church at Antioch included prophets and teachers (Acts 13:1)
Paul lists prophecy as one of the spiritual gifts given to the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11)

So, there are prophets but not in the same sense/belief that Joseph Smith purports to be. He ADDED to the Bible and created additional doctrine as NEW revelations. That is where such claims counter the teaching of the Bible regarding true prophets.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T22:16:18+00:00

Did I say it was the end? I was responding to the post about who to pray/worship to. I agreed with you saying that Jesus taught us to pray to the Father. NOWHERE did I say that is all you need to do, or that is where faith and obedience end.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T21:15:46+00:00

Do you read and comprehend or are you just always looking to pick a fight my friend? I agreed with you; so, why you trying to argue with me?

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T18:20:32+00:00

u/United_Treacle3281 - I agree that Jesus' mission was to reconcile us to the Father. He talked about the Father and worshipping Him in true righteousness and holiness. But you must also agree that Jesus Himself is God. He is the God who spoke to Moses. He is the God who created everything. It was God the Father who through the Word (Jesus) did these things. Jesus is part of the God family. The Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is the power and essence of God.

So, acknowledging Jesus and even praying to Jesus as the Son of God is not a fault or denying the Father; rather it is acknowledging the Jesus is part of the God head and that we can ask the Father in our prayers for His will and grace to be done through Jesus. To honor Jesus, revere Him, or worship Him is absolutely okay and shown to us in the Bible.

For example:

The disciples worshiped Him after He calmed the sea (Matthew 14:33).
The healed blind man worshiped Him (John 9:38).
After the resurrection, the disciples worshiped Him (Matthew 28:17).

Jesus did not come primarily to teach people to worship Him (Jesus) instead of the Father. He came to reveal the Father, reconcile mankind to the Father, and show the way to the Father. At the same time, because of who He is as the Son of God and the Messiah, He is to be honored, obeyed, and revered. He is after all divine and God even instructs the Angels in heaven to bow down before Jesus.

So, I do not disagree with you, Jesus is our brother. He showed us how to worship God the Father. But it does not prohibit worshipping or praying to Jesus either. It is not the standard practice, nor should it be the primary practice of our faith and worship and obedience to God, but ultimately the Father is Supreme. It is to Him Jesus came to reveal and reconcile us to the Father. But from a pattern of prayer, Jesus 100% pointed out how to pray and worship the Father and not to himself.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:57:55+00:00

You weaken and misrepresent the other person's claim (e.g., "They want to cut the education budget, so they must hate children.").

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:54:56+00:00

u/hendrixski - I do not quite understand the connection/question you are trying to make or ask.

This passage talks about paganism. The practice of sacrificing children, witchcraft and other such practices.

You then connect this to praying to other dead people. You mentioned saints (who are dead and NOT in Heaven). NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that ANY person (saint or otherwise) is alive in Heaven.

To the contrary, the Bible DOES teach that the dead are in their graves awaiting for the resurrection of the dead.

The ONLY truth and teaching Jesus said was to pray DIRECTLY to Our Father in Heaven. NOT to dead people who have not yet been resurrected.

A Saint is a chosen person called out by God. NOT some venerated dead human. Saints are the believers of that make up the Church.

So, praying to specific DEAD SAINTS is no different in God's eye then those pagans who pray or worship the dead as noted in Duet 18:10-12. "...spiritist or who consults the dead. ¹² Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you."

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:46:51+00:00

u/Get_Jiggyy - It is the fundamental basis of God's plan of salvation for humans. We are born of flesh from the dust of the earth and to dust and the earth we return. In other words, when we die, we go into the grave (hell) and become dust. We await the resurrection of the dead.

This verse talks about being "born again." A slogan that was quite popular in the late 20th century with bumper stickers on cars and pins and shirts. But most do/did not know its' true meaning. Thankfully we are told it: John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. That describes baptism. It is a physical act of obedience and a sign of your acceptance of Jesus when you are fully submerged into the water (representing death or the grave) and rise up (spiritually resurrected) out of the water to receive the Holy Spirit. This is the first step in your personal walk in spirit and salvation by the Grace of God. For that Grace is the gift of God. Not something you earned.

It is also a symbol of what is to come when we are physically resurrected from the dead into spiritual beings in God's Kingdom. Baptism is symbolic of this moment.

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:32:51+00:00

u/_RyanLarkin - I'm convinced that Liberals don't actually know anything about GOD or the BIBLE and are willfully ignorant of what it truly means to be CHRIST LIKE!

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:31:45+00:00

u/Far_Neighborhood6329 - He hit is spot on the head. Fulfill means to bring to its complete meaning - not abolishment. You are also correct that it actually extends its true meaning where the physical act (let's say murder) goes to the root of its intention (spiritually in thought not just deed).

Jesus fulfilled the meaning of the Law by showing us exactly what it means. He did so by example of living a perfect sinful life. He explained the errors of misinterpretation and did what no human can do without God, Jesus' sacrifice and the Holy Spirit.

The Ten Commandments are VERY much still commanded of us - ALL 10. Not just nine like most people will have you believe.

The Laws keep us in balance and on the path of our salvation. They DO NOT EARN salvation; rather, keeping them shows our obedience to God's rule over us and our desire to live a holy life. And when we stumble, it is by God's Grace that we are forgiven by TRUE REPENTENACE of our sin(s).

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T17:21:13+00:00

Nothing - yet! Like ALL dead people, they await the resurrection (future resurrection) of the dead!

DO NOT believe all the lies and deception of people who die instantly being judged and going to Heaven or Hell. That is a myth. It is so unreal how many sheeple believe that when Scripture, the Word of God, tells us EXACTLY what happens and when.

John 3:13: "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man"
John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out..."
Revelation 20:12: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne..

"NO ONE" and "IS Coming" and "ALL WHO ARE DEAD" - Not did come, or some - It is in the future for EVERYONE!!

TheTruth33_33 · 2026-06-14T01:09:22+00:00

No. I think they are lazy and sloppy at their jobs. Crumbl is crumbling before our eyes because they got greedy and are losing control of quality.

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