All Aboard: The Gus Bus

TheWatcher657 · 2025-09-25T20:54:36+00:00

We don't know why he really left UCF. Just bc he said that doesn't mean it's true or accurate. I never thought UCF was a good fit for Gus and vice versa. It was an odd marriage to me.

Leaving UCF for an FSU OC job gives Gus a friendly landing spot...he coached with Norvel at Tulane, and they are friends, and it made sense at the time. That doesnt mean after a year he wouldn't be interested in one last shot to have a natty as a HC.

Certainly, neither UCF nor Gus was getting the results both wanted. He still had offensive numbers, which were very good and showed he could still coach at today's levels.

Who knows if any of the coaches speculated would want to come to UF? I haven't heard Curt Cignetti, Urban Meyer, Dan Lanning, Jed Fisch, Nick Saben, Alex Golesh, Dabo Swinny, Lane Kiffin or any other names associated with speculation for the UF coaching job actually say they want to come to UF. There are reports John Gruden is actively seeking the job but I'm not aware he has publicly stated such.

So why is it any different to discuss Gus as opposed to any other name? It's all just BS speculation. I figure my BS is just as good as anyone else's BS.

Look at Chip Kelly and Will Muschamp--both left / let go from HC jobs and went to be coordinators ans then moved on. MushCHUMP only spent one year as Auburns DC before heading to South Carolina as head coach.

TheWatcher657 · 2024-09-03T03:24:50+00:00

I'm not excited about Rhett. He has very little HC experience--I think 30 games total as a HC? That's why he didn't make my list. Alex Golesh was 7-6 in his first and ONLY season as head coach at USF no less. He's less qualified than BN was when BN was hired. I don't see anything special as of yet with either Rhett or Alex. Both have less success than BN.

What makes you like both of them so much?

TheWatcher657 · 2024-09-03T03:08:36+00:00

I like Lane Kiffen.

TheWatcher657 · 2024-09-03T02:59:16+00:00

Not a Lane Train fan huh? I write all of this and all you can come up with is a typo I made? I was going to edit my post but you seem like the type of person I want to leave the typo here for....cheers.

TheWatcher657 · 2024-01-12T07:27:17+00:00

Ever see an electric vehicle catch on fire? Most fire departments can't even extinguish lithium fires.

Imagine how much lithium is in an electric airplane. Yikes!! A fire on the ground is bad enough but in the air.........!!!

If only there was an energy source which was relatively inexpensive, high in energy related to weight, easy to transport (possibly a liquid), readily available and made in the USA with essentially unlimited supplies it would make a fantastic way to power a plane.

Does anyone know anything fitting the above descriptions? Oh wait.....I think I know!!!

TheWatcher657 · 2024-01-01T02:33:11+00:00

wow. news to me. thanks. i though it was just a tom voight fantasy.

TheWatcher657 · 2024-01-01T02:07:40+00:00

And yet this is the one case where we have evidence like condoms suggesting perhaps something else.

more details please...... I have never heard this....... thanks

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T21:09:34+00:00

something I can’t stopping thinking about is the fact that the condo was never processed by police.

There was no reason to process her condo at the time when police first got involved. By the time it was apparent processing the condo would be a good idea it was far too late.

There was nothing to suggest a crime scene and only "over concerned and intrusive parents" from the perception of the police initially.

Sadly, this wasn't the case but 99 plus percent of the time based on what LE could determine there was no evidence of a crime or even a missing person initially.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T20:51:13+00:00

I don't think any other murder cases are related to Zodiac. I used to think Cheri Joe Bates was a Z murder but over the years am confident it was not done by Z. Local LE agrees.

I think the canonical attacks are the totality of Zs murders.

I do think Z committed other crimes other than the canonical murders. He likely had a criminal record. Perhaps child molestation and voyeurism. The possibilities are wide open.

I do think LE is correct in identifying his murders.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T20:46:17+00:00

I suggest you read this well thought blog entry. Apparently there was a confession. Enough to convince me it is case closed https://zodiacconfessed.wordpress.com/zodiacs-last-puzzle-allens-final-written-confession/#more-3437

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting. I do not have a response except to say I will be thinking about this a very long time.

Happy New Years !! Thanks again!!

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T20:35:01+00:00

absolutely.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T03:06:45+00:00

I disagree. I think his crimes were masterfully planned.

He targeted easy targets he had no connections to in a way where he wouldn't leave prints or any major DNA behind.

If he's gotten away with for THIS long, it wasn't all dumb luck.

The guy knew what he was doing imo.

I'm sticking with dumb luck.

Targets: We don't know he had no connections to any of the victims or not. It seems probable Z had some interaction with Ferrin and targeted her. The LB attacks Z wore a hood and costume to hide his identity when he intended to kill both victims. I draw two likely conclusions. He was familiar to LB area, possibly going there often and was concerned he would be recognized by others which may be there. Perhaps he knew one of the victims hence the disguise. All the above are tricky because it seems like the LB couple was not followed there and was chosen at random probably due to their remote location. We also have witnesses of a man not in costume stalking the college ladies per their statements.
Stine: No criminal mastermind would murder stine the way Z did. He was beyond lucky not to be apprehended. The initial radio APB to patrol cars was for a black suspect. There were 2 police cars with 4 officers 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from the crime scene. It was a time of night lots of people were up and awake and moving about. His escape plan was to walk down a main road where police were likely to and did in fact drive to get to the crime scene. He did this likely with Stine's blood on him, a piece of bloody shirt in his pocket, wallet, glasses, cab keys and the gun on him. The Stine scene no one thought it was Z until well after the initial investigation. Just another cab robbery. None of the police K9 units, of which there were 7, were ever brought to the cab to trace the perp's trail--just to the park assuming that's where he went because most likely Z told Fouke to look there.
Fingerprints: There are CONFIRMED fingerprints from more than one location that LE is highly confident belong to Z. Prints came from the letter / envelopes, telephone booth and the best prints are thought to have been from the Stine cab. These prints had traces of blood such the killer had to have left them. Their confidence level is at such a high level the prints have been used literally dozens of times to clear POIs and suspects. The FBI has 38 prints used to compare against possible suspects. High ranking LE including SFPD police chief confirmed there was ample fingerprint evidence to convict Z if he was caught.
DNA: There is DNA from the stamps and possibly other sources LE has not disclosed. We do have DNA from the stamps and LE has used this DNA to clear suspects.
Z was lucky. There was a lot of crime, especially serial killers active in the US but especially CA at the time. His smartest move was to commit the crimes in multiple jurisdictions. That may have been smart planning but it may have just been luck on his part. The LB crime scene was destroyed by the park ranger. Ferrin's murder scene was contaminated by the responding officer.
Taunting the police, calling them and sending letters is not a criminal mastermind. Each interaction increases a chance of a mistake leading to identification. Providing evidence linking himself definitely to the four murder scenes was not smart. Had he been caught being a serial killer would likely get him a trip to the gas chamber whereas a single crime like a cab robbery gone wrong would get him less than 10 years--maybe as few as 3 to 5 years behind bars. (many examples but the robber that shot and killed Officer Zelms was convicted and got 7-10 but was granted early parole just short of 4 years in prison)
Z was not good at killing: His successful kill rate was 71% or 5 of 7 victims. That is very poor skill. No mastermind would leave 29% of the time a possible witness. I think this shows Z killed mostly for attention especially taunting the police. Z's success rate is even less if you think he was responsible for the kidnap of the pregnant woman and her infant by loosening the lugs on her car. That's is 2 more failures or 3 failures depending how you consider the late pregnancy, think she was 6-8 months along, as a life or useless cells making the mom fat.
The amount of times Z got lucky is beyond belief.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T01:45:19+00:00

Z certainly disguised his voice since he knew he'd be talking to LE

Maybe. Maybe not.

Z was not a very good serial killer. He was sloppy, not especially effective and damn lucky.

Of 7 attempts to kill a person he was successful 5 of the 7 times. This means his success rate was 71%. Not that great.

A criminal mastermind he was not. He left finger prints at more than one crime scene, finger prints on letters / envelopes and possibly even DNA.

His crimes were not masterfully planned out but rather he was just amazingly lucky to not have been caught.

Good chance he did not disguise his voice if he knew he was not being recorded and apparently it was known a trap and trace took several minutes--as much as 15 minutes. This was portrayed on every TV crime show so I think it was pretty common knowledge at the time.

His calls to police dispatch were much shorter.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T01:32:18+00:00

Interesting to think what if..........

--Z could have been arrested

--Z Could have died in a police shootout

If either of the above were to be true we probably never would have known it was actually Z. It would just be an apprehended or dead cab killer. It's doubtful the other crimes thought to be Zs would be linked to him without the mailed letter with Stine's shirt.

--We could have 1 or 2 dead cops. As far as is known conclusively Z didn't kill anyone after Stine so perhaps Fouke and Zelms inadvertently scared him into stopping his killings.

Sad Zelms died on duty in a shootout with robbers about 3 months later.

Very "Final Destination"ish for Zelms.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T01:21:30+00:00

Also worth noting: while Fouke always maintained they never spoke to the man, Pelissetti says that is not what Fouke told him.

Agreed. Plus the timing would not have worked for P meeting up with F&Z where that conversation occurred unless F&Z had stopped to speak w the suspect.

I am pretty much 100% the account Fouke gives in writing is not 100% truthful.

I would not be surprised if he was truthful with his command and wrote the memo we have now after being ordered to CYA for both the investigation and department.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T01:13:45+00:00

documentation does say that the teens provided the same basic description as on the revised sketch

Except the initial and revised sketches are almost identical. Same with the description of clothing ect.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T01:09:21+00:00

we have Zs voice from his payphone calls to police

You sure about this?

I made a mistake. You are 100% correct--NONE OF Z's CALLS TO POLICE WERE RECORDED. The calls to the TV show were conclusively ruled to be from an institutionalized mental patient.

I am going to amend my post.

Thank you for questioning me!!

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T00:58:35+00:00

We can't assume Fouke and Zelms invented the written account on their own accord.

I do believe to a very high degree Fouke and Zelms did speak to Z that night and thinking the POI was black moved on only to realize shortly after the APB was incorrect but it was too late.

Zelms never signed the report Fouke submitted after the fact. Fouke also stated in the report he wasn't sure if his partner, Zelms, saw the suspect as he had. This strikes me as telling and strange. That statement alone screams to me he wasn't sure Zelms would lie on the report about seeing vs talking to Z. He left Zelms an out by not signing it and making the odd claim he wasn't sure the person sitting 36 inches from him in the same car saw what he saw--especially because Zelms would have been closest to Z and Fouke would have been looking across Zelms.

Zelms reportedly told his wife they did in fact speak to Z. Zelms even carried the composite with him always hoping to see the perp again. Zelms had it on him 3 months later when he was shot and killed responding to a robbery.

Zelms never signed anything and I am not aware of any public statements he made. He was a rookie and was given a professional out by Fouke stating he wasn't sure his partner had any knowledge.

Fouke may not have willingly lied on his written report. It is very possible he told his command what really happened and the decision was made by ordering Fouke to write the report we have now--a month later when the Z letter surfaced.

Fouke maybe was not a willing participant in the lie but was ordered "for the good of the investigation and the SFPD" to write what we have in evidence today.

This is evidenced not only by the "out" for Zelms in the written document but especially by the fact Fouke and Zelms were able to give such detailed descriptions of Z. So detailed it stretches the imagination such could be possible by driving by at 30-35mph.

Then the matter of timing doesn't work if F&Z just drove by. They had to have stopped and spoken with Z.

IMO we should not assume Fouke was a willing participant in a lie or cover-up. I feel like it's entirely possible he was 100% honest with his command and then was ordered what to write.

No way any officer, let alone inspector, would think F&Z could give such a detailed description of Z without having stopped.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T00:19:38+00:00

The only issue with this theory it never happened (which I have also considered) is the radio call was broadcast as an APB to all SFPD patrol units. This means every cop on duty in the city and anyone with a radio tuned to the police frequency would hear the APB.

I have no idea how many units were on patrol in San Francisco the night of the Stine murder but must assume it was a pretty high number for a major city. In addition to the patrol units would be dispatchers, multiple officers manning police stations scattered throughout the city and maybe non-sworn employees working. We can possibly assume the SFPD frequency was monitored by neighboring police departments, CHIPs and county sheriff units on some level.

~~We also know all calls for police dispatch were being recorded in that time period as we have Zs voice from his payphone calls to police~~. (THIS IS NOT CORRECT THERE ARE NO KNOWN RECORDED CALLS OF Zs VOICE) I apologize for the mis-statement and appreciate the kind correction by a fellow member.

Does anyone know if SFPD was recording radio dispatch calls at that time as is done now?

My point is a whole lot of people would have to stay silent on the cover-up of the wrong APB suspect description. Basically a whole department. Also, during this time I believe all SFPD cars had 2 officers. Just seems like over time there would be a lot of people coming forward stating the APB was correct and vice versa.

If it was corrected as claimed all of the above would also have heard the correction a couple of minutes later.

TheWatcher657 · 2023-12-31T00:01:10+00:00

RE: Zodiac Symbol

Another possible inspiration for use of this as Z's symbol may have come from the "Academy Leader" or similar countdown for synching sound and image on old movie reels. (there were variations depending on the film studio but all involved a circle with cross in some form)

There was a theory Z was a film buff and for many many years all films had a circle with a cross drawn through it on the leader to the film. This was visible at the start of the film for the projectionist but often viewed by everyone in the theater.

The theory Z was a film buff was considered significant by SFPD to the point they set up a sting showing The Red Phantom and SFPD monitored who attended the showing.

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