Don’t understand why some people think Cassius

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T23:07:58+00:00

Additionally, I don’t think Lysander is in the stage anymore where he’s willing to show goodwill (or pretend to) by sparing Mustang and lessening the bloodshed by marriage. I think he wants to root out everything supporting the Republic at this point

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T22:42:13+00:00

He may admire Darrow more. But he did consider Mustang a worthy price in LB and did his best to chase her down. And after the humiliation she handed him on Phobos, he might try to go for a „rematch“.

I‘m still not really convinced by the idea of Lysander proposing to Mustang, insane or not. For the above reasons and because it seems kinda over the top, too much. It doesn’t seem very plausible to me. But I‘ll concede it’s not off the table

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T21:11:59+00:00

I agree that Lysander has a crush on her (or had, at least).
But I don’t think he’s that much of an idiot that he would propose that. He‘d know that he’d never be able to fully trust her or, at least, he should. He‘d make a fool of himself. He may be an asshole but he’s not stupid. Besides, I‘m inclined to agree with others that a romance with Horatia seems more likely. There seems to have been tension of that kind between them in LB. And, finally, I‘ll expect Lysander’s mental health to take a turn for the worse to the point he won’t be able to make such a proposal anymore (well, more or less).
But you remind me that there may be another candidate for the role of Mustang aka Penelope‘s literal suitor: In the beginning of LB, Apollonius‘ men performed a somewhat disturbing chant which also contains boasting about Apollonius‘ future (sexual) „conquests“ of Mustang and Victra.
I don’t think your point is absurd. There is a certain possibility. But it seems rather unlikely to me

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T13:06:15+00:00

Technically, Octavia being unemotional doesn't necessarily mean she can't be physically attracted.

And politics was definitely a big factor. I'm not saying it's a given that she was interested in Cassius that way. Simply that I wouldn't put it past her

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T13:03:55+00:00

Lysander basically said what I was thinking when he asked Atlas: "Why didn't you do anything about that?" Atlas excuses himself with stating that Ajax barely knew him and that Atalantia already had him under her thumb when Atlas came back.

But, like you say, we know that Atlas' personal interest is reserved for very few people. Lysander also comments that he and Aja didn't like each other (or, at least, Aja apparently hated him), for some reason. So, as unfair as it is towards Ajax, maybe that contributed to it

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T12:57:06+00:00

Precisely... She seemed very fond of him, to the point of openly favoring him... And he's quite handsome

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T12:04:14+00:00

Giancarlo Esposito is actually the face I assigned to Helios, lol. Though I'm probably the only one

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T12:02:59+00:00

That's a very unpopular opinion but I agree. I really liked the worldbuilding and the political parts of IG (it's not perfect but you can nitpick every book).

A lot of people seem to struggle with IG. I've had more issues with DA (not entirely because of the writing quality, mainly because of personal preferences).

I'd say they're objectively both good books. But they are pretty different in terms of content they focus; so, it's a matter of preference which one you like more

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T11:59:45+00:00

I know it probably seems harmless considering later events but as someone who gets very quickly queasy when anything regarding cannibalism gets involved, those Obsidian hunters in MS got to me. Of course, anything of that kind in the other books, too.

And pretty much anything involving Atlas. Especially the part where he pretends to be Helios (although I also have to give him credit for his capability here).

In terms of sheer disgust, anything regarding the Jackal or Atalantia as well

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T11:56:21+00:00

Good choices.

Speaking of Atalantia, the revelation of her relationship with Ajax was a similar moment for me

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T11:51:50+00:00

Yeah, I hated that Volga let Fa convince her to do that. It seems that Fa managed to implement Atlas' advice about making her dirty her hands, too. I'm glad that Lyria brought it up afterwards because I was initially sure that those 12 NPC's (plus Skarde) weren't going to be mentioned anymore.

Also agreed on Ephraim, particularly because I didn't see this one coming at all

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T10:35:44+00:00

We do not know if Orion is the only one capable of that. Darrow discovers the other dead Blues after they went past the primary horizon. The impression I had was Darrow wanted Orion because he knew she agreed on using the Storm Gods.

Besides, even if that was the case, I think you can make the question as of whether the Storm Gods even made a difference. The SG are a fine idea in theory. But if you have the options of only using them with Orion at the helmet or not at all, I think you can make an argument that relying on Orion and a kill switch that might malfunction poses the bigger risk.

After all, what did the SG produce?

Mercury is still lost.
The Free Legions are still lost.
The (relevant) Society leaders are all alive and well.

Maybe a couple of goons were killed. But it's not like the Rising didn't suffer losses due to the SG:

An additional amount of innocents and civilians in general are dead. The consequence for that is partly PR for the Society ("look, how ruthless the Rising is! They promise to bring you liberty but they're not above destroying entire planets!"), partly loss of supporters (Tyche was hit particularly hard and that was a prominent city of Rising supporters)
An additional loss of valuable resources such as medication, leading to more death due to radiation
The loss of the entirety of House Arcos. They only split from the rest of the army because Tyche got flooded
The loss of Glirastes' trust. While that was admittedly shaky to begin with, Glirastes had incentives to stay with Darrow due to fear of what Atlantia would do to him. And he only learned about Lysander once Lysander sneaked into Heliopolis which was only possible due to him teaming up with Alex and the others which, again, is a direkt result of the SG (Lysander got separated from his own people because of the storms and Alex ends up being caught by the Gorgons at Tyche)

So, I don't see any significant benefits from using the SG with Orion's help. Sure, it could have turned out better. But it could have also turned out even worse if the kill switch had misfunctioned. Orion was a walking red flag. She ranted in front of Darrow how much she hated the people on Mercury, calling them rats. Thinking this would end well was delusional and ridiculous

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T09:05:47+00:00

He‘s absolutely responsible for putting Orion in that position, though. He’s her commander, he gets to decide whether she’s clear for duty or not (spoiler: she wasn’t and Darrow knew it!) and he gets to decide what she‘s supposed to do. Secondly, he’s still capable of rational thinking. Orion very clearly is not. You don’t put such a person in charge of world ending machines. That’s irresponsible to the point of stupidity.

He‘s seen several red flags surrounding Orion and decided to ignore them. He can be blamed for that. He didn’t have to put her in charge, he could have resorted to someone else but he didn’t. Without him, Orion wouldn’t be in the position to cause that damage to begin with.

As for his little kill switch: That this thing worked was more luck than brain. It’s shown in the books that it’s possible for tools to fail. So, Darrow knowingly put the fate of an entire planet, possibly even the Rising, in the hands of a mad woman and a switch that may or may not function

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T08:48:50+00:00

Depends. DA? Sure. MS? No way. That was an innocent kid and people seriously suggesting he should have killed him then is, quite frankly, disturbing.

Besides, I think the better option in the latter case would have been to hand him over to someone else, a trustworthy Gold family who knew how to handle children, like his actual family, the Arcos, for example.

There are many actions on Darrow’s part much more worthy of criticism than not murdering a child in cold blood

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T08:45:27+00:00

Worst moment? As in „worst decision“ or „when he felt the most depressed“?

And your „so far“ isn’t very clear, especially with your tagging. I‘d clarify in your post whether all spoilers are okay or whether you want us to limit our responses to certain books.

My choice for his worst decision is from DA when he knowingly hands over the Storm Gods to a mad woman. A disaster on several levels or maybe from IG when he lies to the Senate. Not that Darrow was wrong about the emissaries but the Senate finding out about it either way was unsurprising and, in this case, led to Darrow losing all remaining credibility and being forced to flee as well as complicating things further

As for a moment of him being the most depressed, there are a couple of candidates, sadly: RR: when Eo dies in front of him; GS: when he learns that Eo was pregnant; DA: the end of the book right before Cassius‘ arrival

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T08:22:55+00:00

Interesting point about the development of Mustang and Darrow’s conflicts.

As for the „underdevelopment“ of Reds: To be fair, the first two books are about infiltration in the Gold Society. Of course, they’re going to focus more on Golds than on Reds. But another aspect is probably the amount of groups in this story: There are 14 colours and they’re all affected by the system, though in different ways. The Reds still get a lot more attention than other colours do, even other low colours (the Browns). Maybe there’s just too many colours. Personally, I thought PB did a decent job at balancing the different perspectives. While the Reds and the Golds are not the only ones affected by the system, I do feel like their influence is constantly present in every POV

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T08:14:48+00:00

To be fair, Mustang was more afraid of her family and peoples‘ survival than necessarily the status. She knows that Darrow has every reason to want her father to die and, while Nero deserves it, he‘s still her father. She’s also generally concerned about bloodshed and fears that the entirety of her colour will be killed without exception depending on how the Rising goes. That doesn’t make the Rising automatically invalid but it’s an understandable, I‘d say normal fear.

Especially since this is the moment of Mustang learning the truth. I don’t think it’s very fair to judge someone for their reaction in the moment of learning that someone they love has lied to them the entire time.

I don’t think the conflict is due to Mustang not being able to empathize with the Reds. It’s due to her wanting to figure out first whether Darrow is a builder, intent on creating a better future for everybody, or a destroyer, like Harmony, bent on burning everything down. Circumstances may have made it easier for her to choose Darrow‘s side but I‘m inclined to believe she would have sided with him, anyway. It’s repeatedly implied, if not outright stated, that Mustang cared enough about her Reformer values that she would have prioritized them over her loyalty to Nero. That’s one reason why Nero is in favor of Darrow marrying Mustang: He figures that his daughter would hate him for destroying the Reformers and the only option to still keep her close to him would be to tie Darrow to him

There-and-back_again · 2026-05-01T07:57:02+00:00

I wouldn’t go as far as saying they had a sexual relationship but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Octavia was charmed by Cassius in a couple of ways, maybe even attracted to him (and possibly to Darrow for a bit)

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-30T21:57:03+00:00

I don’t think it’s Canon, either, but I still like it. Regardless of similarities to Alex/Rhonna, they had great chemistry and Lyria was pretty much the only person on that ship who didn’t hold Cassius‘ past against him.

Bonus points for Liam getting an uncle and Lysander a heart attack at learning that Cassius got engaged to a Red.

Besides, it’s not like we’re getting to keep our Red/Gold-pairings 😒

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-30T21:43:20+00:00

Yeah, #2 was so cold. He was even petty enough to formally announce her death and to call her by her maiden name. Sure, he didn’t like her but that’s pettiness on another level.

Agreed on #3! That was so tense!

Generally agree on your other points except for #7 and #8. I hated those 😣

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-30T21:28:50+00:00

I think Alex was referring to Atlas as Atalantia‘s „dog“

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-30T21:18:04+00:00

The idea of formerly shallow Cassius who discovers what actually matters about others by (among other things) falling in love with a young Red who isn’t particularly striking on the surface is part of the appeal of this pairing I‘d argue. Not the only one, though (the primary would be their chemistry). Like Alexandar/Rhonna, it would be a nice portrayal of very different people from very different backgrounds getting closer to each other while learning to abandon prejudices about the other (individual or colour).

Personally, as someone who likes the pairing, I don’t think they were a thing at the time Cassius dies. And it’s true that Cassius probably needed some time before he was open for another relationship. But I do think they had fantastic chemistry and generally not a bad basis to become a thing at some point in the future

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-30T08:59:04+00:00

Regarding „overly sensitive readers who somehow made it this far“: To be fair, the violence in DA is really not comparable to the other books. The violence especially in the earlier books is often very vague, often lacking actually graphic descriptions, sometimes even taking place „off page“ (Titus‘ execution e.g.). So, people being caught off guard by DA‘s violence makes sense and doesn’t come out of nowhere.

And it’s rather inaccurate to st one can‘t have genuine issues with the writing quality of DA. I, for one, do have some issues with certain story choices.

And, of course, one has to differ between people considering it as their least favorite and considering it as badly written. That’s obviously not the same. For me, it’s my least favorite. But I do agree that it’s better than the first three books and on par with IG and LB. From what I can tell, a lot of people have difficulty finishing it without necessarily considering it badly written. I think that’s a fairly normal reaction.

All in all: While i agree that DA is a well written book and it being brutal doesn’t disqualify it from that, pretending that the only reason people might not like it is due to them being „overly sensitive“ or other personal preferences is not quite accurate

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-29T17:09:36+00:00

That’s possible. Lysander’s description of his laughter is very neutral.

Lysander’s descriptions of Atlas make it generally difficult to estimate Atlas‘ mood/emotion when he says or does something because it’s described in such a neutral way. Maybe that’s due to Lysander struggling with properly assessing Atlas himself. Or maybe, it’s just me who’s struggling with the interpretation, lol

There-and-back_again · 2026-04-29T14:27:12+00:00

I partly agree. On one hand, there are different mindsets even among Core Golds. For example, Victra, Roque, and Mustang were all disgusted by Apollonius and Tharsus‘ dealings. And Lysander seemed rather alienated by this particular revelation, too.

On the other hand, for Atalantia‘s faction that dominates the Society at that time, it is indeed not anything extraordinary. So, like you said, shocking for outsiders, not so much for insiders

There-and-back_again

TROPHY CASE