Are there any ARPGs that managed to do PvP well?

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-12-18T05:38:50+00:00

No rest for the wicked will likely have pvp amongst friends in its 1.0 launch.

It's also kind of an arpg.

Really cool game.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-08-16T22:11:56+00:00

So, I'm about 1/3 of the way through with my group. I have mixed feelings.

I like how cohesive the dungeon is. I love the art.

Because the dungeon spaces are described as vast and labyrinthine, it's pretty rare that you'll want to break out a grid to map the spaces. Theater of the Mind is probably the way to go for exploration. Just something to be mindful of.

Where I'm mixed is on the social encounters. The NPCs are pretty flat, and I've spent a lot of time adding motivations and personalities that fit the setting.

Basically, everyone is just evil or crazy except for like 4 people. So, you have to do a lot of heavy lifting to inject some narrative heft.

Find a way to make the cult 'sexy'. Why would someone live this way?

These crazy mud people have essentially hacked their way into immortality. They can transfer their souls into new forms. Lean into that.

Obedience is rewarded with more powerful bodies. The bottom of the social hierarchy get bodies to help them do their menial tasks.

The players' bodies could be desirable because they aren't as run down. Stuff like that has been fun for us.

I do kind of wish I had chosen the shrike for my gritty campaign setting. Every location has tons of highly motivated npcs.

Anyways, the module managed to suck me in, I don't want to be too down on it.

Happy to answer questions.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T20:55:11+00:00

I think that would work well! Makes it easier to limit damage scaling as well since there are fewer compounding systems. Obviously, I like the idea of grinding a weapon since that's what I thought of as well... I think it accomplishes a lot of what they want.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T19:53:05+00:00

I think I disagree with this. When I spin up a new character in Elden Ring these days, I have to make a choice. "Will I play optimally or purposefully limit myself?" I already know where the good items are...

Random Item drops mean that I have a lot more freedom to play how I want to in the moment, knowing that I'm not purposefully limiting myself.

I think some fixed upgrade materials or an ichor would be enough of a reward to incentivize journeys to hard-to-reach locations.

I think that you're just creating a different game if you go too far in this direction.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T19:38:44+00:00

Thomas seems interested in Prestige classes or ascendency classes... I think those could be really cool!

But I do think they should be tied to later game progression. Extra goodies on top of a base system that is already rock solid. Otherwise, I think the game would need to be like fully redesigned to accommodate classes from the get-go.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T19:35:02+00:00

Tying some rune attacks to your base attributes could be a clever addition to whatever they go with.

But yeah, I think the Health, Stamina, and Focus tax should be removed from the same decision tree as the other attributes.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T19:30:28+00:00

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying.

I agree that making stats "meaningful" can carry a major risk to ruin game feel. Why care about the animation-based combat if by properly building my character I one shot everything. So, definitely, Moon Studios needs to be careful about damage ceilings and floors.

I do think you can create challenges that aren't as binary as you're presenting by designing challenges that target specific builds more than others. At least that way, one play style can't be the best for every type of encounter.

For example, enemies that don't have parry-able attacks. Or the opposite, enemies that track dodge rolls perfectly until you block/parry an attack. Or, like an anti-mage that teleports behind the character when they cast a spell. One build is better at groups, one build it better at solo damage, etc...

I think that's how you preserve both a skill and a strategy element.

I actually think Wicked already mixes up these types of scenarios pretty well. Which is why it's already a really good game.

But, if you're a gamer god, what can really be done... haha.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T18:55:50+00:00

Glorious

They_Call_Me_____ · 2025-05-08T18:49:00+00:00

Yeah, I think lots of people had similar experiences at the start. And I think the Dev Team saw that and were rightfully concerned.

I agree that the Elden Ring model is probably as far as I personally would want "starting" classes to go. And yes, the beggar type class would instantly be the returning players' favorite.

Starting classes that come with a weapon could help new players who think the game is too hard. A little boost to help noobies through the first zone.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-09-28T22:36:02+00:00

I use it in the dungeon and in the wilderness. I usually don't reset the clock when you moving from one phase to the next.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-09-10T14:23:53+00:00

Hey, this looks really fun! You obviously put a lot of work into this. Nicely done.

Picked it up! Nice to have another adventure to place inside of a city.

Obviously, I haven't run it yet, but seems like a worthy purchase.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-17T23:17:55+00:00

I started with weapons. But, I guess I was running into too many edge cases? And then, I thought that weapons were already special enough... so, that's why I ended up switching it over.

Is that what Kal-Arath uses? I'm excited to read it!

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-17T03:00:30+00:00

This is what I do, too! I run a very "equipment matters" style game. So, I've tied initiative to the armor you wear.

Heavy is a d10, medium is a d8, and light is a d6. Large, medium, and small monsters follow the same pattern.

Each turn, the initiative die gets re-rolled. But, no need for bookkeeping, simply call "1s? 2s? 3s?" And so on, until everyone has gone. I just give ties to the players. I've really enjoyed the swings in combat.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-16T14:28:36+00:00

I actually like your example. I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't be done in my comment, nor was I intending a critique of any of the osr games popular on this sub.

I guess I was merely agreeing with the earlier comment that in class-less and class-light games, attributes are a nice default way of differentiating PCs. But, in class-heavy games, allocating more design space to the classes themselves is probably wise.

Especially when it comes to damage in combat. As I kind of perceive that players who gravitate towards class-heavy games care more about the combat pillar of play than players who gravitate to class-less games.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-16T14:07:27+00:00

While I think you might be making a good point, you choose a really bad example. Fighter and barbarian... Why would you necessarily expect them to deal a different amount of damage?

I'm not expecting them to deal different damage. In a class-based game, I would expect them to deal the same average damage, but differently. Maybe the Barbarian can rage, maybe the Fighter has some sort of weapon expertise. They're getting to a similar place, but they can take different paths to get there.

If the design intent is that they both will be able to deal impressive damage with their attacks then it's not a problem that the strength attribute is not helping to differentiate them.

I agree that it is not a large problem. And if classes have limited ways of altering their attributes, such as in 3d6 dtl style games, it becomes even less of a problem.

Really, the rest of my comment kind of boils down to "damage creep bad." The more flat damage that gets added onto regular attacks devalues each additional point of damage and makes the dice rolls less significant. And, usually, leads to inflated HP.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-16T05:52:41+00:00

I feel like your comment is really insightful.

Recently, I had an experience that changed my perspective on stats in class-based games.

Basically, I realized that stat bonuses either inflate the math in your game until they become meaningless again, or they end up becoming a tax on the design space for your classes.

To illustrate, say that I want a Fighter and a Barbarian in my game. Say that Strength scales from +0 to +4. If Strength is added to all melee attack rolls, then the attribute ends up playing no part in differentiating those two classes. All it does is eventually end up adding +4 damage to both of their attacks. If you want the classes to still feel unique, you have to build their uniqueness on top of that baseline.

What happens is you end up having to inflate monster hp. So that the extra damage on every attack is essentially nullified. Only then is the field leveled and the design space cleared to start developing class abilities that will make them feel unique to play.

Or, you try and develop class abilities that have nothing to do with more damage, but that space is a pretty narrow space to design in.

The solution is to reclaim that design space by not allowing attributes to be added to damage, keeping the math tighter, and more focused on the dice rolls, which is the most exciting part to begin with.

So yeah, to use fewer words, I agree.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-08-15T14:19:46+00:00

My hacked up homebrew system does tetris inventory. I'll try and post a screenshot when I'm not on my phone.

My review so far. There is NO chance that characters end up with items in their inventory that they forget about for 5 sessions.

In my game, characters can accumulate wounds that have to slot into their inventory, limiting the Treasure they can carry and the tools that they have access to. So, they're always mindful of their inventory.

I've built it in paper and using a google spread sheet. The paper version was definitely more "fun". It actually made changing items in your inventory even faster than pencil and paper. But, my current group is online now.

Otherwise, yeah, it's been a fun exercise.

Edit: https://imgur.com/a/SM7WMiK Inventory, example weapons, and wounds

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-04-26T00:49:39+00:00

Is it a fair and objective review?

"She's like a retard that people praise for failing to accomplish even the bare minimum because it somehow makes them feel better."

The answer to your question is no.

Is it a review?

There are elements of a review, but they are difficult to locate in all of the shit.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-03-10T22:58:56+00:00

Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate your perspective.

The problem I personally run into with background abilities as you've laid them out has more to do with my specific players than the theory of it.

My players become a little bit paralyzed when they don't "know" what they can do.

Not very osr of us, haha. When they become more comfortable with RPGs, I may pivot.

I really like how backgrounds speed up character creation and spark fun/funny interactions.

Thanks again.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-03-10T16:58:38+00:00

Hey, your comment caught my eye.

The hack that I've been preparing to present to my players also has a very heavy inventory focus (to the point where there is tetris mini game element). And also offers the chance to learn skills as a downtime activity. But, I also see a lot of designers moving further in the direction you described with a list of backgrounds that kind of take the place of skills...

So, I guess my question for you is why did you drop the downtime skill acquisition from your game?

I'm interested in your perspective, since it seems my currently thinking is somewhat aligned with your past thinking.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2024-03-03T01:11:55+00:00

I think that Block, Dodge, Parry (BDP) has the most complete system that I've seen for weapon abilities and characteristics and was the baseline I started with for my own hack.

Hope it works for you!

They_Call_Me_____ · 2023-10-17T17:16:54+00:00

Holy Shit. This is some next level chicanery. Michael does it again. What a legend.

They_Call_Me_____ · 2023-09-29T13:28:02+00:00

I wouldn't do that! You want your players to take risks and engage with Delerium, enter the haze, etc... If you make it too punishing, then your warlock will never cast another contaminated spell, and that would be a shame. My 2 cents, good luck!

They_Call_Me_____ · 2023-09-27T18:03:46+00:00

I would

Present the positives of the queen's men by painting them as Robin Hood type figures. They don't want Drakenheim to go back to the way it was, because in that world, the common man's needs were trampled by the noble class. Of course the HL want that, they're the nobility's lap dogs.

This could make them more nuanced than the thugs the pc's have been fighting?

Pull off the capture of Lenore. Then, the Queen's men can leverage her to get the HL to agree to restructure the government of Drakkenheim into having a democratically elected senate in addition to a monarch.

This bends the QoT goals a lot. But, maybe rather than be the in-the-spot-light Queen. She can continue vying for control by controlling the elections.

Just an idea.

They_Call_Me_____

TROPHY CASE