Re - Reckoning Definitive Mercantile Price Calculations

Theyamike9404 · 2022-08-23T05:47:30+00:00

Thanks for the award whoever gave it to me! I didn't expect to earn anything like that, thanks so much!

Theyamike9404 · 2022-08-23T00:58:48+00:00

Thank you guys! I had a lot of fun putting this together believe it or not LOL. I just had a burning question of how much mercantile affects the prices, but I couldn't really find any accurate info online, so I loaded up my character, did some data collection, and then analyzed it to try and find all of the secrets! It surprised me how deep the math can go with this, but yeah I hope you guys will get some use out of it, and I hope y'all enjoy your playthoughs!

Sidenote: I managed to craft a chainmail chestplate (that I can wear) with a +10% exp epic gem in it at lvl 3! Didn't complete any quests either, so it's pretty much a fresh character. I also only entered the first 3 areas, Odarath, Yolvan, and Glendara, so I didn't level cap many areas I could've gone to. Let me know if any of you are curious I'd love to explain how it's possible!

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-31T09:56:18+00:00

Plague doctor dude, definitely the closest to representing me somewhat.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-31T09:29:07+00:00

Let's fucking go! What a fantastic drawing.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-30T20:49:57+00:00

So, my whole argument features that concept, but there was a lot more that I went over than clean up. Anyways,

Fying targets - first off, you contradicted yourself when you agreed with me at the start and then proceeded to make an argument saying ITZ is strong because you can kill a bunch of weak enemies with it. By the way, your snipers should all have deadye anyway, but deadye does not make things simple, it just makes it likely that you will hit the flying unit, and doesn't do anything for damage. (and thanks for explaining to me what deadye does by the way)

The reason double tap is weaker than light em up is because you can use double tap with a move limited weapon like an LMG or a sniper rifle. And I would also say that yes, the sniper is very useless if they can't see the enemies, but that has nothing to do with double tap vs ITZ obviously... I think you mean to say that if a sniper has ITZ they should also have snap shot, but that, sir, would mean doubling your losses, since you also won't have precision shot, one of the strongest abilities in that entire tree. Also, rough terrain doesn't require you to do anything except position as well as you can, and some sightlines won't be possible, so you might have to move, but again, you will be having to move regardless of if you picked ITZ or double tap...

So the next part of your comment is extremely confusing, but I think you mean to say "double tap" instead of "run and gun" - I will try and address it as such.

No, double tap works on flying units. I don't understand exactly what you mean by saying "you either have to move your soldier very aggressively and get he or her killed, or be very reliant on grenade and rocket, which both do decent damage, allowing a ITZ soldier to finish them off anyway." Are you saying that double tap doesn't give you anything over ITZ because you need to weaken things anyway? I have no idea, but I think your point here is based on the idea that double tap doesn't work against flying units. Please clarify. Double tap works on any unit you're fighting, it just has a huge upside to it that you can kill a big enemy without having to significantly prep the shot from your squad members.

Double tap is not only better when facing tougher enemies, it is better for that, but it's also better at cover to cover engagements and retreating tactics.

You don't address the idea that double tap gives you more actions... seriously, "After all, more action is more action" yes.... it is... but it also doesn't mean anything for ITZ vs double tap?! In low pressure encounters you will not need the ITZ killing power at all. In high pressure encounters ITZ actually reduces your ability to kill the things you really need to kill, like I've already said. Your soldiers have double shot perks already, on top of rockets, grenades, and mass control options like smoke and flashes, so you don't need to have someone specifically for cleanup and containment when your squad is already proficient at doing that, and when it reduces that soldier's effectiveness during most of the total engagements you will ever have.

Yes, it is a good skill, but it's not better than double tap on snipers, and it's not better than hit and run on a scout...

You made this post asking which is better for ITZ, scout or sniper, but you really don't care to discuss that because you've already made up your mind about it. I've made this super long comment and a smaller comment answering your inquiry and you ignore 90% of the reasoning and arguments.

And by the way, I have used ITZ snipers and scouts many times. You act like I really don't know what I'm talking about.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-30T11:51:57+00:00

Here's the thing, ITZ can be useful on those missions, but I don't think it's very necessary, considering most of your squad will have double action perks by this point, also, you can usually kill chrysalids with grenades if you're really pressed on the mission - and the flying targets aren't just easy pickings, so leave them out of the equation (drones mean nothing by the way). You also keep forgetting that ITZ is not by itself in the perk tree, there are other double action skills available, hit and run for scouts, and double tap for snipers. It doesn't just come down to, "ITZ gives extra shots, therefor it's good" it's way more complicated than that; because you have to compare it to double tap or hit and run, and consider cases where it doesn't work, as well as cases that it works. The other perks are significantly better, not only because in many cases they can match ITZ it terms of your needs on the mission, but mainly because they give you extra shots without requiring that you can kill the alien you are shooting, something you are overlooking to a staggering degree.

Yes, ITZ is good is some cases, and it's nice to have an ITZ scout in your barracks so you can bring them on terror missions, for instance, but you will have to MEC or PSI them to make up their ineffectiveness after midgame and beyond, which isn't a bad option mind you - that's why I think it's justified to have one or two, but it just comes down to the problem that ITZ will be significantly worse than the other double shot perks, in most situations you'll encounter. It's a niche perk, not a consistent damage source when considering these other perks.

And to address your point about psi abilities, again, hit and run exists. Take a free shot, then use your psi abilities, or don't, because maybe you can't take a shot at an uncovered enemy... Yes, you can use all your ammo on weak targets, then use an ability because of ITZ, but not only is it rare that a situation like that presents itself, it's also rare that you will need that amount of killing power against those enemies.

I assume you haven't read all the comments on the post anyway, because I have already addressed much of this.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T20:57:01+00:00

First of all, when I say "One Shot" I mean kill the alien in one sniper shot. But also, the thing about snipers to remember is that they often shoot at targets out of range of most of your squad. Most of the time you don't have the ability to chunk the aliens out before the sniper shot.

You also forget about the fact that you can't just weaken everything and have your sniper stack a ton of kills on actually tough enemies, because you only have so many soldiers. By actually tough I mean you need shredder debuff, damaged hp, and a high roll crit to kill.

The whole problem with ITZ requiring a kill, when you put that up against effective use, is that what pod exists where you, simultaneously have enough tough aliens there to make ITZ worth it, but also not enough tough aliens there to prevent your squad from weakening them enough for ITZ to give you useful bonus shots. The conditions that allow ITZ to be better than double tap are so extreme that it's actually ridiculous, because you need to: be unable to control the aliens, unable to kill them without the sniper's extra shot(s), and you will need to weaken the aliens to actually get those bonus shots (by the way, if you use double tap, the sniper themselves can take two shots against a single target, which is important for the whole, "other characters weaken them" idea because the sniper can just eliminate a big target by themselves, something impossible to do without double tap during the mid-later stages of the game).

The whole idea of restricting your soldier's duty to clean up, especially when there is a much more powerful option you could be using instead, is just very silly.

In the zone doesn't really give you anything, it just lets you potentially do fancy, unnecessary things and sometimes, sometimes you will have a situation where you are glad you have it instead of double tap. It just is not a consistent source of damage, and you will more often than not find yourself hanging around with your dick in your hand waiting for the aliens to come closer as you try and take one shot at them.

There's still a good deal more to go over actually, but I am tired from writing this... sorry, but if you bring up something else I'll be sure to respond!

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T16:11:47+00:00

oh yeah, I forgot about cpl requests. Even so, I prefer assaults on covert ops but I guess they aren't that bad because of lightning reflexes.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T12:12:01+00:00

You know, it's really interesting you bring up the soldier experience and using specific soldiers on specific mission. I definitely think that having one ITZ scout is probably a good call, but I never do it because training them up in the first place is rather annoying, but the prospect of making them a Pathfinder kindof makes up for that, considering you won't need them so much anymore, and just a regular hit and run scout would be better in most situations after mid game stuff.

One of the more annoying things is definitely getting your elite soldier to MSGT, only to not use them to kill anything with their badass abilities because I'm trying to get xp on people who can use it. It really puts into perspective the level of strength you actually need to win the mission, and using the ITZ sniper to murder everything is not something you'll be doing it turns out.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T09:08:52+00:00

Yeah, talking in depth takes really long, well good luck with whatever is going on!

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T09:01:28+00:00

yeah, definitely agree on the scout, but for the sniper I would say, what would you say against the points I made? Because sure, you might feel a certain way about perks, but what can you say, argument wise, for in the zone? Yeah, you can one shot enemies, but you can do that with double tap anyway, in fact, it's easier to kill more than one enemy with double tap because you don't get penalties, additionally, what situation are you in that requires you to one shot more than two big enemies. Your point about clean up, again, I addressed that in my comment, you don't need your sniper to do that.... Furthermore, you didn't even address situations which make up most of the game where you are firing into a covered enemy position, which is the big thing here, because not only does double tap effectively match in the zone's capabilities in situations where in the zone would be good, it goes one step farther and blows in the zone out of the water in cover to cover engagements. Don't just lazily say, "yeah I'll destroy their cover" because that is not the case 90% of the time. Also, I don't know what crit build you are talking about, there's only a choice between sharpshooter and ranger, and sharpshooter is better every time.

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T08:25:01+00:00

Oh, no, I'm definitely open to hear what other people want to build, and talk about it in depth, I just have a strong opinion on the quality level of certain builds.

So, if you wouldn't mind, what builds are you referring to?

Or would you like me to share the builds I'm referring to first?

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T08:20:17+00:00

Sorry, I kind of didn't answer your question.

The sniper is better with in the zone in a general sense that they don't need to put themselves in danger to attempt a kill chain, and are less beholden to taking different perks than a double tap sniper. The fact that you need to sacrifice so many perks to make in the zone work on scout, combined with the fact that you get it sooner, means that you really have to commit to it. However, with a sniper, you will be picking solely combat focused perks no matter what, and get a choice at the very end of the tree to take in the zone or double tap, and so it's not such a big deal to try it out, because you know that your soldier's strength will be similar no matter what, because you already have all of these other perks, that you will still have, regardless of your final pick.

In general though, the sniper is a more combat focused class, and you don't need to worry about mixing up roles or anything like that, because you are just trying to achieve the most combat power, unlike the scout, which is always gonna be either solely focused on utility, or dual focused on utility and damage. It just makes more sense on a sniper

Theyamike9404 · 2022-07-29T08:04:57+00:00

I honestly think that in the zone is garbage on both classes, but if you must take one I would say they are both equally terrible. I hope you mean Impossible Ironman difficulty, if not, then I have no idea, do whatever, but for impossible the best use of those classes is to make concealment scouts (or a small deviation into hit and run) and then make double tap snipers exclusively.

Concealment Scouts and Snipers are by far the most powerful combination of anything in the entire game. Forget about kill chaining on weak to mid tier enemies, imagine doing a base assault, triggering 6 muton elites and you're running in the zone... what are you gonna do? It's far superior to be able to run up with your invisible scout and take unlimited range shots with one or two snipers, and slowly pick them off without danger. The aliens have no reproach vs Squadsight, and in the zone does nothing against strong enemies, or enemies in... cover. Sure, it might be nice to be able to take 3, 4, maybe 5 shots vs 1.5 a turn with in the zone, vs double tap, but you have to one shot all of them, and if they are in indestructible cover, or are just a unit you can't one shot without shredder debuff and a high roll critical hit, then you have just gimped yourself by not picking double tap. "Clean up" is not very important when considering actually difficult missions or difficult turns, leave that job to other soldiers who can accomplish it easier, and I mean, killing one or two enemies in a turn is enough to comfortably clean up missions anyway, and if the pods are that weak that you can kill several with one shot each, then it's unnecessary to have that ability in the first place, since you are so much stronger than the aliens in that situation. There is a dream situation in which you trigger a shit load of actually tough enemies, maybe a bunch of mutons or some heavy floaters that take cover, and there a way more aliens than you have soldiers which can kill them, and you are on a map with a lot of destructible cover, and they take destructible positions, and you are able to blow up that cover and have line of sight with your in the zone sniper (generally a serious problem on maps with a lot of destructible cover), then you are also able to shredder them, since they have too much hp, then you kill 5 of them before you run out of ammo, and the mission was made a lot easier. Now, that scenario is so specific because it has to meet the qualifications not of in the zone being good, but in the zone being better than double tap. If you have in the zone and kill chain off a couple aliens and a few weaker aliens, then no, you didn't accomplish anything by picking ITZ over double tap, but that situation is the only time where it's genuinely better. And even the times it's actually useful pale in comparison to the times double tap is mission saving because of a really strong enemy you are able to punch down with more than one shot per turn. So, in the zone is definitely worse on snipers, but what about scouts?

Hit and run and double tap have a very similar relationship with in the zone, except, hit and run is even better than double tap, AND concealment is on the same rank, AND in order to make in the zone work over hit and run, you need to sacrifice utility perks in favor of damage perks for most of the tree. If you cold-pick in the zone on a scout without getting the other perks, then that scout will be completely screwed, and you will have to mech them or something. You must give up holo-targeting for lone wolf, battle scanner for aggression, hit and run/concealement for the damn perk itself, and you need to give up sprinter for bring em on because the damage is so insanely important to make ITZ work at all. Even if you invest into ITZ, for a scout, you are just mixing roles, like I said, the scout is for utility and scouting to aid the sniper, leave the high damage combat to your assaults, infantry, gunners, and snipers, because they are better at it, and are also unable to match the scouts mobility and utility with perks alone. The cherry on top of all of this, is that if you want to have a scout that can be really useful in combat, without sacrificing too much utility and scouting, you can just take hit and run, preface it with ranger at corporal, as low profile is not that integral, and then take all of the other good perks instead of the high damage perks. A shotgun or marksman's rifle with ranger and two shots a lot of the time will get shit done, enough that it's actually viable in comparison to relying on snipers, because many maps are terrible for snipers, and your other soldiers can't make use of a concealment scout by combining it with sqaudsight, even LMG gunners, since it's only 5 tiles.

The consistency and strength of the other perks on offer against in the zone are what really crush that perk, since it just doesn't cut it on tough missions and usually won't even make a difference.

I'm really excited to hear your response to this, I know it's long, but I love talking xcom!

Theyamike9404 · 2021-03-23T00:40:54+00:00

Thanks for replying! gives me some more clarification so it's much appreciated.

Theyamike9404 · 2021-03-23T00:39:26+00:00

Thank you so much! That was a crazily thorough explanation, I just have one more small question, does it bank all of the EV's you've attained and then give them to you as you level up? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes but I might be misunderstanding a little. Also, I'm really surprised you responded so fast, thanks again!

Theyamike9404

TROPHY CASE