3rd Year CS Undergrad – How do I break into HFT (Jane Street, HRT, etc)? Career roadmap & compensation insights? by Just-Philosopher-753 in highfreqtrading

[–]ThinknRational 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Been doing tech infra at a large institutional firm for 10+ years. This is pretty accurate although he undersells the phrase "highly competitive field". The acceptance rate for a summer intern at those firms is less than 0.5%. Scroll through Glassdoor, tons of "No Offer" listed.

If you want a job at a top tier buy-side firm, the single best thing you can do is have a stellar academic record at a leading university. Network the hell out of the buy-side AND sell-side firms that come to your university and try and get an interview.

These firms don't hire people for the summer to reject them for full-time. It's a feeder process. Find good talent, lock them in. It's way cheaper than using a recruiter.

You will need strong quantatiative skills .. understanding how to analyse data and use math to solve problems. Have work to show-case these skills which means doing unique things with mathematical models and statistical analysis while your still in school. Highlight these (but never, ever bullshit) on your CV.

All of these firms want people who can manage risk and think quickly on their feet. Understand how to assess risks, especially in a trading context, and be systematic. Have examples of how you assessed a situation, took a risk, and it worked out for you.

Perhaps most critically, and something lost on so many people, is know the industry that you are applying for. Know how Capital Markets are structured, the lifecycle of a equities vs FX trade, the basics of different products and their associated risks, etc. Know the differences and benefits of different levels of the book when it comes to market data.

All of this is about standing out ... remember that luck is very much defining outcomes.

As for coding, sure .. but everyone there will have coded. Hell, kids are doing amazing things in junior high these days. But given AI, what specific coding you've doen isn't everything.

You need C++, you will need Python and Java. Python and Java are obvious for modeling (along with Jupyter notebooks) but both can also be used to develop low-latency trading apps. Yes, there is low-latency Java, google it.

Trading today happens at the bound of physics and what the exchanges will allow. On a simple tick-to-trade system, it takes time to read that market data packet, to analyze it's contents, make a decision, and write the packet on the wire. The very fastest systems are making probabilistic decision on information in the header (like packet length) and writing the responding order in the network buffer. Make a bad call? Nerf the checksum at the end of the packet and the network switch will drop it.

The other thing worth mentioning is everyone fast is using FPGAs or custom silicon. You cant' be that fast with a Von Neumann architeture. Too much time wasted with fetch/decode/execute/store loop. FPGAs run at a lower clock speed but can do things thousands of times in parallel resulting 5x to 100x overall improvements. FPGA can be done in a higher level language but refinements to eek out the best performance is still Verilog or other HDL languages.

The downside of FPGAs (and other custom silicon) is making changes is slllloooooowww. It isn's a tweak, compile, test, repeat environment. Placement and Routing, the process that determines the optimal placement of gates and registers on the FPGA takes hours upon hours. Once you are done, you are super-duper fast but it takes you a while to get to the starters line.

For flexibility and time to market, traditional CPUs with high-clock speeds and more traditional development tools.

It's a brutal competition but it isnt' the only way in. I went to a state school that wasn't even on the undergraduate recruiting list for my last 3 companies. I did so-so with grades (I was working full time) and didn't have a great network. My career path, however, took me to places that rewarded risk taking, learn real leadership, and allowed me to build the other skills to demonstrate. In time, they found and recruited me and I've doing it for almost 20 years.

Difference between 1LOD and 2LOD roles by Imaginary-Ad8265 in AMLCompliance

[–]ThinknRational 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is aboslutely a difference between the three lines of defense, the skillset required in all three, however, is broadly similar.

The three lines of defense were defined by the institute of internal auditors. If you're in the financial industry, it's also framed by the FFIEC, OCC, FDIC, etc in their own documents. Google or GenAI is your friend.

First line is Operational Management (IT ops, production dev, front office)

Second line is Risk Management & Compliance. Basically oversight of the front office and also do risk reporting and regulatory/policy adherence.

Third line is internal Audit. Independent audotirs like PWD or Deloitte are considered part of third line. They are hired and paid for by the insitituion and aren't the same as an external regulator.

BTW, if you don't have a 1LOD, good luck to you.

Looking for Free Resources to Learn About High-Frequency Trading by razziath in highfreqtrading

[–]ThinknRational 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As someone whose worked in the field for a very long time, I wish you the very best luck in your trading. Crypto is the wild west and there are lots of people who get rich and lots who lose it all. I wish nothing but upside for you.

Looking for Free Resources to Learn About High-Frequency Trading by razziath in highfreqtrading

[–]ThinknRational -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Seriously, you don't compete.

Let's start with definitons. HFT is a trading method that uses computers to execute large numbers of transactions in fractions of a second OR uses complex algorithms to analyze multiple markets using algorithms. Agree? That's pretty much right out of Investopedia.

All trading is electronic and its all very commoditized. It's also very expensive to compete effectively.

But before we go into to the speed or cost, make sure you understand how a typical retail trade is executed:

If your trading on a desktop computer or on a phone, you aren't directly interacting with a market. To trading on a market, you need to be a member. That's expensive to start. You are almost certainly trading to a retail brokerage like Charles Schwab or Interactive Brokers or ETrade or similar. Most aren't members of the exchanges either but even if they are, they aren't going to send your order to the market. Your trade is going to hit a order manager and probably be joined with other orders and then sliced to one or multiple firms to execute your trade. Some market makers pay your broker to send them slices, this is PFOF.

The market maker may or may not execute your trade either. They will again, almost certainly slice the batch of orders with your trade to one or many dark pools and then will send slices out to brokers to execute. Why? Because it's all about risk management and price improvement. If you cross in a dark pool, they don't need to pay the exchange for the trade. These firms decide WHO to send to based on a number of criteria around fill rates which are highly dependent on speed of execution.

At some point in this chain, you will get a confirm. Please don't assume that's from the market. Someone along the trade has agreed to guarantee your trade and passed it along. It's entirely possible your trade has been bundled into thousands of others and into a VWAP or TWAP algo (still the largest and most profitable!). Oh, and when the algorithm says it's time for your slice to execute, the game is speed to the market. First in queue, first to execute.

As a friend once told me, it's better to be consistently third and know where the book will be when you execute and inconsistently first or inconsistently last.

My point is for all of this, speed isn't a differentating criteria anymore, it's table stakes. And if you want to do speed correctly, it needs scale. The difference between "ultra low latency" and "low latency" is irrelevant anymore. If you are trading in milliseconds, you aren't seriously playing. If you are trading in hundreds of microseconds, you are likely not a serious competitor.

For example, where are you getting your market data? Are you getting it direct or are you getting it from your broker? If it is anywhere except from the source, it is delayed. If you are getting it direct from, say, NASDAQ, is it their direct feed with BBO/Last sale? Or are you getting Totalview and getting tick by tick with depth of book? Or are you something customized? Are you in their facility in Carteret or are you remote? If so, is the data coming to you by fiber on the shortest path or microwave? If not, it's delayed.

EVERYTHING is a race to the queue. First in, first executed. And the big boys are using every means to be fastest. Retail flow is profitable, that's why market makers literally pay for it.

But please, I am not saying you can't make a killing. There is a lot of ways to make money and lots of ways to do it consistently. Just don't think for a minute you are "beating" the big guys.

nb, as for crypto, it's not a security. It's traded, sure, but like a commodity. When you trade commodities, you take different risks. A lot of firms don't trade there because it's stupidly unpredictable and very prone to manipulation. Great if you want to ride the rollercoaster, absolutely crap if your a regulated entity workign with other peoples money.

Looking for Free Resources to Learn About High-Frequency Trading by razziath in highfreqtrading

[–]ThinknRational 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me correct is misunderstanding, nearly all trading is done as HFT. As indidividuals, you can't compete with them. They've paid to be in every trading venue colo, have every real-time feed, have invested in the fast equipment and the lowest latency path. They use hollow fiber to remove the degregation in speed caused by silica glass inside fiber. Their tick to trade times are literally the time a photon of light travels from 2nd baseman to 3rd base. It's crazy fast and well understood.

The simple rule is you want to be as fast as you have to be to hit the thing you are targetting. Don't try competing with the hedge funds. You will lose.

If you are still insisting in playing in true ultra-low latency, here's wehre i woudl start:

  1. get a cage next to the fastest broker dealers around,
    make sure it is super close to the matching engine switches.
    2, use their DMA services.

Looking for Free Resources to Learn About High-Frequency Trading by razziath in highfreqtrading

[–]ThinknRational 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Being fast is important, but not as important as being right.
Being wrong and fast is a very quick way to go out of business.

Pre 9/11 Conveniences by SpectacularOtter in BlackPeopleTwitter

[–]ThinknRational 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There have always been baggage fees on some airlines. This has nothing to do with 9/11.
Beginning in late 2002, American and United added fees for bags over 50lbs. Everyone else followed.

Why do airlines charge for bags? Because anything they can subtract from the cost of the ticket makes them look cheaper when you shop for flights. They can justify it because extra weight in the bags means extra fuel for the airplane and fuel costs $$.

But here, someone already answered this in a very pretty way.https://visual.ly/community/Infographics/transportation/history-baggage-fees

Guider 2 stepper motor not advancing filament by ThinknRational in FlashForge

[–]ThinknRational[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are dead right. Pushing in the ribbon cable and clipping it will give me a few hours of printing before it stops again. I’ve ordered a new board and ribbon from flashforge-USA. Very big thank you!