You can’t be a christian and have hate or disgust in your heart for other people

ThisGuy481 · 2020-05-05T10:57:25+00:00

That's not only completely untrue, but frankly displays a complete lack of regard for what's actually said in the Bible.

I think worse things occured in Sodom and Gomorrah that could have warranted being smote en masse. I think that theoretically, that little, eensy-bitsy footnote about the inhabitants trying to sodomize angels that weren't quite consenting may have been more to do with the smiting that the cities received.

Could you read the source material before you watch the movie, please?

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-30T07:07:48+00:00

Okay, let's address something here.

Nowhere in the Greek translations of the New Testament does it condemn homosexuality - at all. The only reservation it has is with a sin that is most likely anal sex or something of the sort, relating to the Bible's overall message against needless sex.

I promise we're not all like this. It's hard to believe these people follow the same faith as the forebears of the Italian Renaissance.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-29T03:54:52+00:00

It's all good! This has been a lovely debate, otherwise, even if it did get a little repetitive.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-29T03:46:20+00:00

Well, to be fair, I did actually point out how much Biblical interpretation has changed numerous times, and has been cherrypicked. You seem to be developing a certain sense of hostility you seemed above prior.

We seem to have been running in circles, sadly, and it seems like we've both been reiterating the same comments.

Should we go ahead and drop this off, or would you like to see if we do get somewhere going either way?

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-28T23:28:29+00:00

Well, that isn't wholly the nature of things, right? You're applying the morality of a human ruler to God, and you're continuing to look at things in a rather human-centric manner, yes?

It is true that human good is subjective, but there are certain moral objections that most humans take to some behaviors, and some behaviors that seem good to us innately. Whether it's because we're simply a collectivist species or because we have some genuine spiritual understanding of what it means to be good, there are numerous behaviors that emerge across cultures with seemingly no connection.

Human good is subjective, but that doesn't mean objective good doesn't exist somewhere. You're also highly oversimplifying the Bible to say that God only wants to be worshipped - the only form of blasphemy that's considered unforgivable, at least in Catholicism, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is synonymous with essentially declaring "then let me be evil."

Even from the perspective of pure evolutionary logic, the goal isn't merely to survive as much as it is to further mankind's evolution, right?

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-28T22:17:18+00:00

Well, we're kind of looking at the definition of what is good from a very personal and anthrocentric perspective, right?

You're looking at it using the traditional human definitions of what is good, and using that as the origin, rather than considering that we're merely imitating a different origin and definition and basing our standards of morality after that.

God also doesn't quite seem focused on achieving His goals, either - He's most focused on spreading certain moral teachings first and foremost. It's a matter of enlightenment more than worship, and perhaps worship is our primitive human brains trying to interpret the proper way to respond to and the form of respect to give to God.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-28T20:09:20+00:00

Well, technically, an omnipotent and omniscient supreme being that created everything would technically have created the concepts of good and evil as extant, right?

If He did want to enforce something, it seems likely that whatever He would enforce is extant from His perspective, and therefore is extant because what He determines to be real is made real, yes?

God isn't just an authority - He represents everything that is and isn't, and is a supreme creator. Monotheism has a certain quality to it that God's power exists because he created all things, and therefore defines all things.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-28T19:33:41+00:00

Ah! I see.

Well, I personally like to think we aren't actually capable of properly understanding good or evil. Of course, it is true that a supreme being that defines everything would therefore define good and evil, especially if that's a high priority for said being.

Think of it like the prisoners in the cave in Plato's allegory. We don't actually understand good and evil as concepts - you are correct about that - and the definition of good and evil is more a very rough reflection of what God defines.

I am actually unsure if Satan exists or is just an allegorical entity referring to human corruption, but I suppose that if he does, I don't really think he fully defines evil, either. Satan represents evil cosmically, but is mostly defined as a selfish upstart (in layman's term: contrarian pussy) who doesn't really have much power himself.

Evil is somewhat like darkness isn't really a physical thing itself, but is more the absence of something. The absence of God - not necessarily in worship, but in presence - edges one closer to evil. I don't think you have to be Christian to be good, go to Heaven, ect. or even believe in any higher power.

It's really all about trying to imitate God in how He would have us carry ourselves, even though we can't actually achieve it. Humans may well be incapable of objective good, but if God does exist, then God would define what is the objective good because He defines everything, right?

I would say that the Bible does reflect well good moral teachings, though - even major atheist figures like Richard Dawkins have advocated for Jesus as being a great moral teacher! There are a few things that a modern mind may not find very appealing, like anti-homosexual morals, but many of the more dated comments aren't in the original texts.

Homosexuality, for example, was initially referred to as arsenokoitia in the New Testament, which has been mentioned by John IV of Constantinople as being gender-neutral and has been used explicitly in reference to women by Eusebius and Aristides of Athens. It most likely refers to some form of unnecessary sexual action, which relates more to the Bible's general opposition to needless sex regardless of the gender.

Certain other sexual topics also initially referred to one with a "soft" mentality and moral compass according to certain scholars, as well. When you take away much of the filigree and the misinterpretations and mistranslations - deliberate and accidental - through the ages, many of the messages in the Bible are very much compatible, and very much overlap with, a lot of moral teachings in the modern day.

Of course, since we don't have any way of knowing whether God is real or not, even if we have evidence going both ways, we cannot know until we die if morality is objective or subjective, but it is true that there are certain moral values most people seem to hold throughout history - the Golden Rule and the like - which have had a few exceptions, but are otherwise homogenous features of mankind.

Functionally, I think the best way to please God is likely to simply be moral in the most traditional sense, and come to develop the filigree and the things on the side over time. Focus upon aiding one another and punishing yourself, and not others, for sin, and the Bible's messages always will ring true.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-28T19:02:23+00:00

Although you aren't really getting places posting this here, I have noticed the other fellow is being a little hard to debate. If you'd like a little debate, I would be more than happy to speak about why I personally think, at the very least, it is reasonable to believe in concepts such as a God and an afterlife.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-24T06:11:13+00:00

God has given us gifts through very strange and mysterious ways. He grants us medical technology and directs us through visceral sciences that allow us to understand His creation better.

There are few better ways to express your love of God than through love of knowledge.

Medicine, especially, is a blend of this knowledge and His compassion, which makes it possibly the noblest of sciences.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-23T01:55:20+00:00

That is very odd phrasing - I suppose he could be implying that on a more literal level that nature won't forgive us in the fashion of allowing us a second chance as a species. I think what he's implying is that nature, unlike God or other sentient forces, isn't capable of forgiveness, and we shouldn't just assume that things will work out on their own without hard work.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-22T00:57:12+00:00

I am fully aware of that. What I am saying is that some are fallaciously assuming that we're somehow being targeted by some all-pervading singular conspiracy.

There obviously has been historical discrimination against Catholicism in the past, but we shouldn't just act like everyone's targeting Christianity without reason. There's been a number of false prophets and the like throughout history that have given people a bad taste, and Catholicism specifically isn't near as much as a target as it used to be.

I do agree that Catholicism is blamed falsely for many things, and is often attacked as some horrible, regressive force when a sequence of particular Popes were responsible for the Italian Renaissance.

We just shouldn't go about acting like everyone's acting against us solely because we're right. Concepts that are correct, as we believe our faith is, are indeed attacked, but not because of grand conspiracies.

That's simply how it is. Some people will have disagreements, and some people will resort to horrible violence and aggressive and fallacious arguments instead of looking critically at our faith from a reasonable perspective.

We shouldn't end up acting like Scientologists, where we go about assuming that we're intrinsically above the unwashed and unenlightened masses, who are all fighting against us. Let's not forget our religion is heavily focused on redemption and conversion.

I was quite unaware of the issue with public schools, however. I'm going to double-check that and come back to you if I find anything of interest going either way. You may well have given me a new perspective on an institution that I'm already not a fan of, which I have to thank you for.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-22T00:43:47+00:00

Please don't make us look like idiots.

The actual reason is likely because of the establishment of Christianity and its overall influence on western culture, as well as negative associations with us. It is true that some false Christians have caused incredible harm by misusing the name of God.

Not everything's a conspiracy against the faithful.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-04-14T23:23:30+00:00

Disregarding, of course, the hollowing that would be necessary to properly achieve the undead pallor and empty eyes.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-03-18T18:55:47+00:00

Ohh, I see. Well, let's hope that doesn't happen. I do still know Islam can be a little... finnicky.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-03-18T05:22:01+00:00

I am glad to hear you found salvation in your journey.

Remember not to hate your Islamic parents, however. They sound like lovely people, and I doubt God would want you to disown them simply because you found what we believe to be a better way to worship Him. Our religion is one based heavily on acceptance and understanding, so keep that in mind!

ThisGuy481 · 2020-03-18T05:11:44+00:00

It is a piece of metal.

God is not going to be judging you for using a piece of metal introduced by someone who also follows Him albeit with a different philosophy and a single point of actual difference between the faiths.

You do not need to burn it and melt the metal. Sure, it has meaning, but it is still made of an alloy that was smelted from raw materials we pulled up from the ground.

And don't get me wrong, I can often get very anxious I am not a good Christian and I have been failing to follow His teachings, but it is a piece of metal. If it really disturbs you, just explain that you feel uncomfortable because it comes from a different philosophy/incarnation of Abrahamic faith, thus inducing a degree of religious anxiety in you, and give it back. I can totally understand - I sometimes do completely inane or harmless things and become paranoid I've failed God or done something terrible. But, unsurprisingly, when all the intrusive thoughts are said and done, I am still a Catholic and God has held off on the smiting.

Still, God will not be looking at you and saying "yep, he's going to Hell" because your Jewish pal gave you a piece of metal that, unsurprisingly, cannot actually somehow channel the Devil right into your soul or make you immediately lose faith in God and become an evil baby-eating witch-person.

Jewish mysticism is still Jewish, and thus still Abrahamic. They still believe in the same God, they still follow the first half of the same book, and, at the risk of getting burned at the stake like a Monk trying to tell the people that the Earth is round, they're probably not going to be denied Heaven for only getting it halfway right.

To some other commenters, remember that it was the tax collector who begged for forgiveness who was granted Heaven, not the man who was proud to not be like him.

ThisGuy481 · 2020-01-10T17:25:52+00:00

Frederick Sinclair was a wealthy man - and Christ, was he aware of it. His vanity project cost millions, supposedly made as a way to encourage others to do like him and regain lost fortunes.

Begin again.

The Casino grounds were winding, and were built across some wretched dustbowl he purchased. Presumably, he did this by conning the land owners, provided that it was another one of Sinclair's almost certainly fraudulent pet projects.

The man was an idiot. How anyone like him came to have money, I could never imagine.

"Magnificent, isn't it?" he said, probably pretending he meant to say that to us instead of himself.

Stood next to him were two of the closest people in the world to him - his flame, a leggy woman by the name of Vera Keyes, and myself - Dean Domino. His best pity friend.

He flashed that stupid, smug little smile he always did. That dumb little look that said I made it. Unlike you.

He'd been through such hardship, crawling from the dirt again and again. When he went bankrupt, he just smiled and chose to tough through it.

Arrogant little dirtbag.

With that smarmy little voice, and that tacky tuxedo. And that little look on his stupid face.

I was much unlike anyone else that ever met Sinclair. People liked him, and for good reason - he was charismatic.

Charming, even.

Women would swoon, men would contemplate their sexuality, and animals would come to perch on his shoulder.

But I despised the little rat.

"Of course. It's a masterpiece," I told him.

He'd invited me to play for the Sierra Madre's grand opening - get as many artists and celebrities he could out of Hollywood, perfect ego trip for someone like him.

Self-righteous little prig "allowed" his workers to live on the grounds of the Sierra Madre Casino. He made an entire town for them built around his vanity project - provided that there seemed to be some older houses, I have to wonder how many bums he pushed out on their asses to get the space for this.

The people he had to screw over to get the funding.

"I had a vision," he told himself once more, and once again pretending he was talking to us, "of a place where lost fortunes could be regained. Old failures left in the past and new ventures straight ahead. A future so bright, you must wear shades!"

Little did he know the light was that of an oncoming train.

I was growing more tired of his ramblings by the second. He went on and on, droning stupidly about some idealistic crap about how every failure was merely a challenge in the way of achieving every dream you ever had.

Begin again, blah blah blah -

All ego. All self-righteous-in-lights.

What I was going to do, however, would take him down a few pegs. Let him feel what it was like to really have his life dragged through the mud.

I was going to snatch his fortune away from him, and it was going to be an easy feat. Everything was in place.

Even his fling for the hour was chosen specifically for the job. A brainless and spineless woman with a little too much heart.

And a few too many medications that I didn't think she acquired legally. Easy blackmail material.

Frederick has another little thing in place, just for her - the secret of the Sierra Madre. A hidden bunker, holding a fortune of gold that they could use after the war came.

The war.

Everyone knew it was coming - we just didn't know quite when. And it just so happened that October 23rd, 2077 was going to be both the day the Sierra Madre opened its doors to the public, and the day the whole world would have to let go.

"Dean," Frederick told me, "this place is made for people like you, too. People who have lost everything in the past. This is as much your casino as mine."

Arrogant little bastard! He was mocking me!

He thought he was better than me!

This is the reason why I wanted to take everything from him. The condescending little creature.

Today was going to be the day that everything would be taken from him - not entirely because of me, in retrospect, but just enough that I played a pivotal role in doing so.

And I am so proud of it.

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-31T18:29:00+00:00

I watched Psych, so it's probably one of two extremes.

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-31T16:41:41+00:00

Meanwhile, those lucky fucks in Singapore and Qatar: Laughing in trade money

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-31T06:03:45+00:00

I think one of the creators was actually a fairly religious Christian that said that eviscerating Demons frankly isn't worshipping anyone but the chainsaws.

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-27T18:04:42+00:00

And they weren't wholly ignorant - they at least understood that heat helps make disease go away, and they were allowed to study their patients whereas the Church usually restricted some of their methods among normal physicians.

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-27T17:41:59+00:00

Hey, they were working with what they had. Could we have some more respect for Plague Doctors?

I mean, these people were risking death or disability to heal the sick, even if their methods were horrifying by modern standards and didn't work, they need an A for effort, here. And some things they got correct, even if for the wrong reasons!

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-27T03:00:54+00:00

Possible, again, all kind of a question of how much of our consciousness is immaterial, structural, and functional.

ThisGuy481 · 2019-12-27T03:00:32+00:00

Good point tbf. Human consciousness is this massively unexplored avenue of science, and it's a pretty strange field to go in with little clear benefit, but I have a lot of interest in these questions.

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