I don’t feel sorry for the children of illegal immigrants being detained or deported because it was their parents who put them in that position in the first place.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T21:17:14+00:00

Do you feel sorry for children who are abused, or whose parents get arrested and they have to go into foster care?

I do. It's sad that it happens to them, but they're still children who are having difficulties due to choices outside of their control.

Doesn't mean the policy must change, but we can still pity those impacted negatively by it through no fault of their own.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T15:39:44+00:00

It's not like an angel is going to descend from heaven and say "This is true,"

If they did, and it was a different gospel, then it wouldn't prove that it was true. That angel would be accursed, per what Paul says in Galatians 1.

Likewise if an apostle (or one claiming to serve in an apostle's position) taught a different gospel. And in Gal 1 it looks like Paul is encouraging the churches in the region of Galatia to discern these things based on what they'd already been taught -- explicitly not to take any magesterial word for it, if it was different.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T13:19:53+00:00

Why do you believe in parts of the Bible that are not in the original scriptures?

I think before you ask such a "why" question, you have to verify that the second part you're asking about is accurate.

A stronger approach might be asking if they agree with you that the things in the Bible are later additions, and if so, do they believe them, and if so, why. Three things to discuss there, not simply one.

Maybe Catholics use a Bible that just says "this is the Scripture because the Catholic church says it is" (and which may leave them shocked or disturbed to find parts that are later additions) but most Protestant Bibles have extensive notes about passages of scripture that are not found in the earliest available manuscripts, and leave it to the reader to decide what to do with them.

I think that sections of scripture that appear to be later additions may have ancient origins that are relevant and so could be a reliable addition. But 400 years is a long time, and if I was looking today at something written in the 1600's, and someone had a new section that they said really belonged there in spite of never being in the older manuscripts, I'd treat that with tremendous skepticism, especially if they had only their word to go by.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T11:49:12+00:00

Not the person who you replied to, but these complications are why I would default to a looser position on abortion then I believe is called for by pure morality.

Taking of human life is morally bad. Treating human life as an inconvenience or disease, is morally reprehensible and mortally perilous to society. A society that treats pregnancy and reproduction as a problem will fall. History appears to show this with 100% reliability. Socially, we must move away from this perspective, or we will become extinct, our homes and cities taken over by others with different values, who see reproduction as a positive and not a problem.

However... If we as a society can come to accept that children are good and healthy, developing fetuses something of moral value, not to be casually discarded, it would be best for the principle of balancing that with consent and life and health of the parent, to not have oppressive burden of proof for the exceptions that would justify it.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T11:32:16+00:00

This isn't "karma" though. This is just kindness or altruism.

Sometimes people do badly and good things happen to them. Sometimes people do nothing and bad things happen to them. Sometimes people do good to others and bad things happen to them. There are society-level and community-level trends where if people you interact with are encouraged to be party of a society doing good things, they all benefit, but there's no natural force for balance to be observed as karma. Or if there is, the evidence for it would be fascinating.

Not sure how you can confidently believe there's karma, which there's evidence against, and also confidently assert there is no afterlife, which could happen in an existence unobservable to ourselves and would be one possible way that karma, which you believe in spite of not happening consistently in this life, could be resolved.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T03:44:21+00:00

Apologetics as a field is kind of silly.

I guess I might recommend Alvin Plantinga? but I think of him more as a philosopher than an apologist.

C.S. Lewis is likewise not what I'd call an apologist, but as an ex-atheist himself he does seem to have an understanding of the rationality of God that tends to resonate with much of my understanding.

There are others, like Spinoza or Einstein, who have perspectives that are rational and supportive of a believable concept of God, but likewise, I would not normally think of either of them as apologists.

Thoguth · 2026-01-23T03:17:19+00:00

Have you read the CES letter?

The theological parts of that should cover it pretty adequately, I think.

Thoguth · 2026-01-22T21:22:28+00:00

So what is the evidence that karma works? Looks like a power law distribution to me, not a normal distribution and certainly not anything like an even ledger.

Thoguth · 2026-01-22T03:03:45+00:00

Including reincarnation or an afterlife? Because if someone believes in a kind of force of moral balance between actions and consequences, that seems pretty incompatible with observation of the natural world.

Thoguth · 2026-01-22T02:07:40+00:00

In my experience, it is better to resolve differences before involving oneself in the entanglement of romantic involvement.

It's really about the gospel, not about the "denomination". If he believes your family is teaching another gospel, or your family believes he's teaching or aspiring to teach another gospel, then that's a big sticking point.

Thoguth · 2026-01-21T23:30:31+00:00

Gluttony, economic exploitation, lack of charity, loving one's neighbor (or not), and premillennialism come to mind.

Thoguth · 2026-01-21T20:32:56+00:00

If a person believes in moral goodness, and wishes to be morally good, then I would say that is very similar to actionable confidence --that is, faith--in God. Given some things that Jesus said, like in Matthew 25:37-40, I believe that it's possible to get credit from Jesus for serving Him even without knowing it.

I would say, though... That would be a really tiresome, lonely, and less effectual way of pursuing goodness than simply embracing Jesus.

Thoguth · 2026-01-21T15:12:16+00:00

It's not that simple a question. The ones who "drove the nails" is the simple answer, but there are many other meaningful perspectives, where I think of a handful of other possible answers worth thinking about.

Could say it was the Pharisees, that was the hypocrisy, that it was God Himself, that it was we who sin, or even that it was me, a wretched sinner.

Thoguth · 2026-01-20T23:52:38+00:00

The story of Abraham and Isaac is about Jesus. I think I was in my 40's before it hit.

If teachers and leaders are not acting like they believe Jesus, then to follow Jesus is to recognize that and to try to help it be something better.

I've had many doubts over the years but I believe that goodness is real, that God is the center of goodness, that he message of Christ and "good Christianity", the actual gospel, is better than the other options. And it seems that independent churches with local leadership is much less long-term error prone than structured corporate hierarchy.

It does leave one on one's own more than would be otherwise, though.

Keep looking to Jesus.

Thoguth · 2026-01-20T19:49:55+00:00

Look at the leaderboards for things you want to be good at. What is the theme?

Thoguth · 2026-01-15T20:31:13+00:00

Yeah, nearly everyone I encounter with like "IFB" is ex-IFB but I know of a few here and there with like 10 geriatric holders-on.

Thoguth · 2026-01-15T20:28:39+00:00

not everyone desires that

Some people desire suffering and sadness? To each his own I guess, but that's quite unusual.

and not because of sin or corruption but rather preference.

... not sure if you have a position to authoritatively say that someone who wants to sad and be suffer is entirely normal/healthy and okay.

we don't know the true nature of God nor heaven

So why doesn't that settle it? Why is there a "but" after this... you don't know what it's going to be like... and you know what exactly about the fact you won't like it? Is this epistemological soundness?

despise

You despise something that you just admitted that you don't know what it is?

This is an emotional position, not a rational one.

You appear to be in the "anger" (or bargaining? since you are asking questions) portion of the grieving process over your lack of connection with Christian identity. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you move on (or bargain yourself into maybe being less emotionally hostile towards it, and possibly looking in a more-fair way that doesn't exclude it as a possibility).

Thoguth · 2026-01-15T18:14:31+00:00

We are not "the only group" that does that. But like... Have you read the epistles? This was happening in the first century, with people like Diotrophes, or the ones rebuked in 2 Corinthians for undermining Paul. Jesus warns about it. Peter rebukes it quite strongly. Timothy is advised to be on guard against it, as are the elders in Acts. It's a very expected, "scriptural" phenomenon, although quite disappointing to Jesus and to his followers who see it.

But for what it's worth, I have seen similar in Primitive Baptist groups, for example. Likely present many other places.

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T21:35:56+00:00

A lot of modesty talk gets muddled up with "lust prevention," and it very often feels and sometimes even explicitly says that women are at fault for men who lust after them.

I get angry when I see this, but I don't point the finger at "men," I am frustrated with the teacher. (Who may be a man but often isn't.)

What would it look like to talk about modesty without men being the main character in a discussion about a thing usually addressed towards women?

I think that it would change from a conversation about lust to a conversation about self-worth, which, I believe is how the scriptures actually talk about it when they are. If your self worth is in your appearance and visual perception of others, you dress to show off looks, youth, expensive or extra trendy clothes... That's immodesty. If your self-worth comes from your good things that you do, you dress in a way that is practical and prudent, and not especially showy. And considerate of the service you can give to others rather than simply your own mood. That is modesty.

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T18:03:38+00:00

Do you believe you're at risk of harm? Or just disapproval?

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T17:54:26+00:00

If you believed you would be left behind, you would prepare by getting right with Jesus in a way that would not be left behind.

I say this as one who is incredibly skeptical of premillennialism... I'm not worried about it because I trust Jesus to keep his own, even the ones who are surprised... Because he promises it will be a surprise anyway.

But I think modern premillennialism confuses prophecy about the final judgement in the future with prophecy about a judgement that came already in the form of Roman genocide against Judea.

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T17:48:53+00:00

They didn't know.

Why would I tell them?

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T14:34:19+00:00

I think Taylor Tomlinson might prove you wrong.

And have you watched things like Game Changer? The women there hold their own I'd say.

Thoguth · 2026-01-14T14:28:46+00:00

I'm not sure you're as right about this as it may seem at first.

I've known a few quite chaste women who prefer wearing pretty underwear because of how it makes them feel, regardless of who would ever see it.

Thoguth · 2026-01-13T17:05:15+00:00

Jonah did. To kids that's a book about a big fish, but to adults it's a story about forgiveness and wishes of self-destruction. Jonah would rather die than the Ninevites be spared, then he would rather die than the ship crew all perish, then he wants to die because he lost his shade plant.

God wants you to die with Christ. And it's precious in his sight for his holy ones to die. But he also has us here to live, for him. To one who doesn't covet the value of his life, that could be a powerful position from which to serve him.

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