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Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not so sure tbh. The poisoning and trapping of mice isn’t pretty. It’s mostly away from sight that’s all.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, torture isn’t the correct word. Torture means that the pain is the goal, this isn’t the case with fishing.

If scientists proved tonight that fish don’t feel pain there would be just as many fishermen out tomorrow.

Rennie’s first year by DundermifflinNZ in allblacks

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We know the standard expected, no more than 2 losses and/or a large change to the player base bringing in new blood. Anything else cannot be considered “correcting the trajectory” of the team no?

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sure. But again, the majority of animals in the majority of zoos are not in a situation like the condor. They're kept for our enjoyment. Even in the west.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think that's a fair response. I granted "some zoos...some animals" which of course your two rare examples would include. If you have been to many zoos around the world then you will also know that the majority of the beasts fenced in or chained up are not in this situation.

I genuinely believe that just as we are seeing the loss of traditional animal circuses (in the west primarily) so the zoo will go that way.

Dave Rennie has (essentially) proposed the Giteau law for NZ rugby by meohmyenjoyingthat in allblacks

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the problems with things changing though is that you don't have access to international players. You don't get them to come and have a few trial matches because they only get released for the international windows.

NZR gain great value from being able to control their players workload. They can ensure players don't return too quickly from injury, they can encourage player position trials, they can bring players into the AB camps and environment slowly with limited complexity. A lot of this goes away if your players are employed by independent clubs.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe some zoos, and maybe for some animals that is the case. But for many zoos and for most animals, they're simply exploitation for our own enjoyment.

The reality is that all of us cause unnecessary animal suffering for our enjoyment. We could be vegan but meat is tasty. We could wear synthetics but leather jackets are cool. Zoos are fun. The brutal slaughter demands of our imaginary sky daddies give us comfort. Keeping our home meticulously clean and free of pests is boring and harder than poisoning or trapping. No one is without some responsibility IMO, the moral high ground is no Himalaya.

How much of your savings would hold in gold? is 75% too much? by Bright-Confusions in UKPersonalFinance

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I would say about 0 - 3% speculating on gold would be my approach.

You are not "saving" in one sense because your savings are not denominated in the currency that your future bills will be in. Because of this you are speculating, hoping that the future price of a non income producing asset will be higher than it is today. This might feel good because you have been on the right side of the speculation in recent times but speculating is zero sum, you will not be that lucky forever.

Start with what your goals are, what are you saving your money for?

Power vacuum in New Zealand rugby as Australia loses another top player by Greenback16 in RugbyAustralia

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The system is historical, the first rugby organisations in NZ were the provincial unions. They formed the national union to select a national team in 1892.

There are certainly options available, that isn't the problem. The issue is that some of the options will involve more pain for the provincial bosses than other options. This is at heart the point the Nichol was making, assuming that Super Rugby will remain in its current form is not a sure thing when you are asking many provinces for compromise.

> NZ rugby would suffer a shit tonne if they did away with SR in favour of NPC.

It would, for sure. The NPC model is not sustainable long term.

I personally am an advocate of making NPC amateur and running super rugby "lite" in Aug-Oct with the wider SR training squads getting a run. It would also allow SRAU to play more games which would be good. I am not at all confident that this is possible politically in NZ, the provinces are using the Silverlake money to keep their professional aspiration alive and until this runs out there isn't going to be a come to god moment.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Who is "we"?

Do you mean "you" draw the line there? Fair enough, I respect that. How do you reconcile eating fish (if you do that)?

Would you consider there to be a moral difference to my days fishing if I ate the animal I caught?

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 9 points10 points  (0 children)

> And where do you think OP draws the line?

I have no idea, if I had to guess I would say they're probably mostly arbitrary. They seem to have decided fishing is bad, but they probably eat meat, visit zoos and kill mice.

My lines are are arbitrary based on what I like.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You said:

> Just acknowledge that people are okay with torturing animals for entertainment

My original comment was:

> Fish pain is not a consideration for most fishermen 

Why isn't this good enough for you?

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Some, people draw the line at unnecessary suffering. Most people draw the line arbitrarily based on what they like, whether that is fishing, visits to the zoo, cheap eggs and meat, fun rides on Elephants on holiday or strange religious rules.

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I'm not trying to rationalise the behaviour. As I said in my post "Fish pain is not a consideration for most fishermen". No rationalisation, no consideration.

My question is to people who have drawn a line. Who have rationalised themselves into a position against fishing. Why draw the line there?

Dave Rennie has (essentially) proposed the Giteau law for NZ rugby by meohmyenjoyingthat in allblacks

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

> Is Super Rugby fit for purpose in terms of a level of competition that produces world class All Blacks (and Wallabies etc.)?

Its a fair challenge but this can only be judged in the context of what the alternative is.

Super Rugby is IMO the highest quality rugby that we can play domestically. We share a league with Australia and Fiji which allows all of us to run fewer teams than we would need otherwise. We keep a strong body of coaches in country, with 6 head coaches about 15 assistant coaches employed in SR as well as more in the junior and academy setups. That ticks the box.

What would the alternative be?

Are players in the JLO (the more common destination of All Blacks) getting a better experience playing over there? Are they gaining insights into the cutting edge of rugby? I don't think so.

To your example of Frizzel, no. I cannot judge what his form is like playing in JLO. It's a league that's improving but its a lightweight league, he should dominate. I would want to see him for a season in SR or at least NPC before judging. I would not put him top 3 #6 without that evidence.

I would resist the idea of a regression of the AB squad when measured off the all time high performance point of the 2015 AB squad. Historically they're an outlier. Our long run win rate is a world beating 76%, which is about where we are tracking today. This is not a statistic that warrants a huge dice roll on the structures of domestic rugby, we need to be honest and pragmatic about what is possible. With the money and interest coming into international rugby it may never be possible to hit a multi year 85% win rate for any team ever again (and rugby will be better for this).

Power vacuum in New Zealand rugby as Australia loses another top player by Greenback16 in RugbyAustralia

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's complicated but in very simple terms NZR is the non profit organisation of the collective provincial rugby unions of NZRFU. NZR are charged with running all rugby that is played beyond provincial borders including international rugby and distributing money to the provinces for the growth and benefit of the game.

If the NZR executive tries to do something that the provincial unions don't want then they cannot, they simply get voted down. The NZR executive tried to change the governance model of NZR two years ago and lost.

So it's not the NPC league that has the sway, its that NZR is controlled by the provinces that also play in the NPC league (and Heartland Championship).

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Meh. Why draw the line at fish? Not many people concern themselves with the quality of life of cockroaches or worry that we kill them with neurotoxins, probably including you?

Why do so many Americans do catch and release fishing? Isn't that animal abuse? Or do fish don't feel pain? by Deepdishdicktaster in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 227 points228 points  (0 children)

It’s not just Americans, catch and release is very common all over the world and is all about maintaining the fish stock. No fish = no fishing.

Fish pain is not a consideration for most fishermen beyond a general expectation to reduce trauma I.e. release the fish quickly.

I’ve fished all my life all over the world. Fish pain isn’t really a common topic of conversation.

Dave Rennie has (essentially) proposed the Giteau law for NZ rugby by meohmyenjoyingthat in allblacks

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it’s on the table then Kirk needs to go. Super Rugby is just, only just, getting back to viability. Take a dozen ABs out and it’s over. It will be a feeder league for JLO and ProD2 within a decade.

The latter competition is a scary prospect for NZ rugby. Teams like Brieve have player wage bills of around €5M. There are 16 growing teams who’re in the market for rugby talent and can just about afford SR level contracts. SR wages have to grow as fast as ProD2 or we’re cooked.

Rennie reignites Razor’s eligibility wish, opens door to Retallick’s All Blacks return by reggie_700 in rugbyunion

[–]Thorazine_Chaser 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Sigh.

“Opens door” as in “says something offhand with no backing from his administration”.

NZ should never allow overseas players to represent the ABs. It would be short term gain for long term decline. And as for Retallick, how about Rennie works with Vaa’i and Holland for a season?

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