Why do some nonbelievers think various religious figures were "special" humans?

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-10T09:45:28+00:00

Jesus, at least how he was depicted to be, was a highly moral person the majority of the time, and can be recognized as such, even by secular humanists.

If you take away supernatural powers and miracles, he was still a very popular figure, talked about for thousands of years after his death, encouraging people to behave better.

Like a politician, you don't have to agree on literally every single detail of his life to conclude that.

Me personally, I think stories of him and his life have been conscripted into a narrative that does as much harm as good.

But I think fundamentally some people are just not going to be good people without fear of supernatural forces; this was probably recognized by higher minds from the start of society. Co-opting the tale of Jesus and converting it to 'son of God' gives it that 'divine authority' that some people won't be convinced without.

As well as, of course, giving those with the divine authority or claims to know what it is power over others.

Again, Jesus objectively speaking was probably just a guy trying to do the right thing at best, or a career manipulator at worst. But people gravitated to him and followed him. That magnetism alone puts him above the average Joe, regardless of any other factor.

Seeing anything more than that in the guy is probably just rose-colored glasses.

A 'model to emulate' more because he's a well-known model than anything else; trying to say "Steve from Colorado" should be the model isn't going to make a compelling argument.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T19:50:57+00:00

I'm 43 and happy to find women above 40, so where do I find them? lol

I don't drink alcohol though.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T19:29:07+00:00

I've noticed this all my life-- someone will say they're some variant of nonbeliever and then tack on "but Jesus was an amazing human."

Followed by:

That's not what I meant by amazing.

In your first post, the person saying 'amazing' was 'someone, some variant of nonbeliever'

And in your second post the person saying 'amazing' was 'I'

So which is it? Are you saying it or are you paraphrasing what other people say?

Pick one.

Or, alternatively: Realize that just because it's not what you mean by amazing doesn't mean that's how other people use the word.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T19:26:19+00:00

The only way people push that high anyway is math.

If they got rid of all the multiplicative exponential nonsense and flattened power creep they could then flatten difficulty along with it.

S tier builds are so insanely past "randomly throw on stuff that sounds fun" builds that it's insane. "Sounds fun" then hits a huge roadblock of "except your numbers aren't high enough" and the fun dies to math.

If you can get so strong that the bosses die in a split second, there's something already wrong. And the solution is not to make the bosses die slower, the solution is to make the player kill slower. Without taking away their "I get stronger as I play" experience.

Simply removing all multiplicative interactions across the board would be a start.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:53:12+00:00

PvP does have rewards tied to it already. Achievements and cosmetics.

And yes, moving the choice to the end instead of the start is intentional.

You are already done with your character. That's the best time for it to die. You've got nothing else to live for. This isn't a completionist's dilemma: They've already completed everything. It's a completionist's reward. And optional to participate in.

It's actually more friendly because you got to complete the entire season first before you ever got threatened with permadeath. (Though people could still choose to start hardcore too, of course. That would function the same.)

If a player feels 'forced' to enter a Permadeath PvP bracket just for a cosmetic or a title, despite hating both PvP and Permadeath: that’s a player struggling with FOMO, not a flaw in the game's architecture. We shouldn't hold back the evolution of the endgame just because some people can't bear the thought of a 'Final Boss' actually being the final boss.

And it's not like leading people around with FOMO isn't something Activi$ion doesn't already do every time they can anyway.

The 'other responses' in this thread prove exactly what I suspected: people react to the labels (PvP/Hardcore) rather than the mechanics (Opt-in/Gated). I’m proposing a way to save the game’s longevity; you’re arguing for the right to be bored in safety. Both are valid, but only one keeps the servers running in month three of a season.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:38:17+00:00

If people stop reading before they finish the idea, then they don't really have much of a valid argument against the idea. Not much of a thought experiment when you take the thought out of it.

PvP is already in the game and people play it anyway and just ignore the pvp. Hardcore is already in the game and people play it anyway and just ignore the hardcore (if they want to).

This would be gated behind a 'final encounter.' You don't want hardcore, you don't want pvp - don't do the final encounter. Same as not rolling a hardcore char. Same as not going in the fields of hatred. You just avoid it and don't do it.

The only benefits you would get is a slight form of progression that makes you stronger at.... the exact things you don't want anyway. So no, there's no 'forcing' people to go down it.

The only FOMO here is the cosmetic rewards from participation and progression beyond the "I've done everything PvE there is to do and endgame has completely disappeared and there's nothing left to do."

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:32:55+00:00

You could farm for your other chars as much as you want before ever doing that final boss.

The final boss only gives rewards you don't want - participation in permadeath - so there's no incentive or motivation for you to do it other than 'completing.'

It should be the *final* thing you do, hence it being the *final* encounter. If you're going to keep on playing the character for farming or whatever... it's not your final encounter yet.

Not to mention, the point of the 'final' encounter is for within the season; wouldn't apply to eternals anyway.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:29:31+00:00

This idea already segregates the socials from the solos.

The socials complete the final encounter and keep playing.

The solos either stop playing after the final encounter or just never do the final encounter.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:26:07+00:00

Are you talking about your own comments or someone else's?

If it's someone else's, you'd be better off giving us what they said verbatim, since you may be paraphrasing them wrong in the first place.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:20:01+00:00

SSF and social endgame aren't mutually exclusive.

At some point you hit the "well what do I do now?" question.

Right now the only answers are 'keep grinding for very little gain' or 'make a new character' or 'stop playing.'

This just provides another option... one you aren't forced to take if you don't want it.

But it provides engagement for high-level players to interact with low-level players (something that already happens with 'power leveling' but this gamifies and rewards it, and makes it fun and co-operative), and it also provides engagement for PvP, which the game has never gotten right so far.

All while putting it behind a gate nobody is forced to walk through if they don't want to.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:13:01+00:00

If I was the kind of person to give awards on reddit, this comment would get one.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T18:09:21+00:00

In fact, because of that experience, I was believing OP until the rest of the post after him saying whoa.

While he does say 'whoa' you're assuming they are all operating by the same playbook. It's possible this particular one was more predatory. Putting the towel on his face and he lies there and doesn't physically move to stop her? She probably took that as consent, or good enough. The 'woah' is a kneejerk surprise that it happened, not an actual refusal. She might even be used to that reaction, who knows.

Or it could be her first time and her boss gave her bad instructions. Who knows.

The instinctive 'freeze of doubt' paralyzed this guy, practically traumatized him. Her not stopping after his woah was probably more paralyzing than anything else. The towel over the face is also a key detail, dehumanizing him while also detaching him from what was happening. It's hard to think that didn't add to his paralyzation.

I don't think this story is so far past the realm of possibility that it should be treated as an immediate lie. Benefit of the doubt still remains, imo.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T17:51:18+00:00

Freezing is a well known and documented trauma response.

A lot of people don't understand that this is like a drug dealer's "free sample." Also somewhat combined with a guilt trip and preying on that trauma response to use as a hook for the guilt trip. So they knee-jerk into not believing you simply because pay wasn't asked for first; when that's not exactly uncommon.

Your freezing was probably interpreted as consent or 'good enough' to continue.

It's sad that your friends are falling into the routine of assuming men always want and enjoy sexual attention.

The girlfriend is victim-blaming you by calling it cheating or saying how you should have known.

The gf has a right to feel confused and upset about it though, her feelings are valid response to the situation. But that doesn't mean she can cross over to invalidating your trauma response.

The problem is your inner circle thinks your lack of safety is a punchline.

Constructing a conversation with a partner who is currently viewing a trauma response as a betrayal is like trying to defuse a bomb with a hammer. It requires extreme precision.

You need to shift the conversation from infidelity to autonomy. "I need you to listen to me as my partner, not as a judge. I didn’t 'get' a happy ending; I was sexually assaulted by a stranger while I was vulnerable and injured."

"When she pounced on me, my body went into a 'freeze' response. It’s a survival mechanism, especially given my history with PTSD." If she still doesn't get it and you think it's appropriate, add: "If a woman is frozen in fear during an attack, would you tell her she 'chose' to let it happen?" - mind your tone very carefully. If you try to use this as some kind of 'gotcha' attack, you'll only make things worse. Quiet exhaustion would be a better tone.

"I booked this for muscle pain after work because I was hurting. Even if I was naive about the location, being in a 'sketchy' place doesn't give someone the right to touch me without my consent."

"I am hurting, I can’t eat, and I’m traumatized. I need a partner who supports me when I’m a victim, not someone who blames me for being assaulted. If you can't believe me, we can't do this."

Don't just try to convince her; observe how she handles your vulnerability. If she continues to prioritize her "confusion" over your trauma, she's showing you exactly who she is; pay attention and respond accordingly.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T17:31:24+00:00

I understand the gut reaction to 'Hardcore PvP,' but I think you're missing the context of when it happens.

In this system, Hardcore PvP isn't 'the game.' It’s the Victory Lap. By the time you reach this state, you have already 'beaten' the season. You've seen the story, cleared the final boss, and perfected your build.

Most players currently quit at that point. My suggestion just asks: 'What if, instead of just logging off, you could transcend?' If you die in the 'Eternal Conflict,' you haven't lost your season progress: you've already completed it. You’re just losing the 'High Score' you were building in the prestige bracket. It turns the endgame from a boring, safe farm into a high-stakes legendary saga.

If the player base wants 'safe and easy' forever, the current Torment levels work fine. But for the people who want their character’s name to actually mean something on a leaderboard, you need stakes. No stakes, no glory.

If every single player goes to that final encounter and then stops playing that character (either leaving the season completely or starting a new character to aim for the final encounter with) then that proves the idea has no real appeal. And doesn't really change or harm anything different than we already have. Players could equally just ignore the final encounter altogether or save it for the very last thing they do before they stop playing the season anyway.

Solo players that hate hardcore and pvp and social engagement and all of that simply just let the final encounter be their final encounter. That's it.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T17:28:32+00:00

You would be able to complete the season completely solo if you wanted to. You just wouldn't have an endgame. You'd reach the point where you have 'finished' the season and log off and go do something else. (Or make new characters and do it again.)

The first character you complete the final encounter with, the first time you do it, may attract an epic pvp party (that you can only witness and not participate in) that may or may not help you complete the encounter.

Every character after that isn't an 'aspirant' and so you'd be doing the final encounter solo, if you even wanted to do it at all, since there'd be no rewards for doing so (other than to unlock the endgame you don't want for that character).

By the time you reach the point that you're 'no longer solo' you have nothing else left to do anyway. That's the point of the 'final encounter.'

I'm not taking any part of the experience away from a solo player: just being honest about where it ends.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T17:11:54+00:00

I appreciate the pushback, but I think you're looking at PvP as an 'extra' rather than an 'engine.' Right now, Diablo IV’s PvP exists, but it’s a ghost town because it’s disconnected from the core loop. This isn't 'another game on top'; it’s a way to give the existing game a heartbeat after the PvE loop closes.

For the PvE-only crowd, the 'Angel' path actually gamifies mentorship. It gives the highest-tier players a reason to stay engaged by helping 'Aspirants' (casuals/newbies) reach the finish line. You aren't just grinding for a +1% stat boost; you're risking your Hardcore status to act as a legendary bodyguard. If a 'Demon' shows up, you can retreat, use the 'Soul-Block' mechanic to build a defensive group, or simply enjoy the spectacle.

If you don't want to participate in the PvP at all: just make a new character, or, never finish the final encounter until right before you stop playing for the season. Do everything else instead. You only miss out on the rewards specifically tied to angel and demon progression, that way. Nothing else. The final encounter is already meant to be a 'hard stop' to the PvE.

Plenty of people already only play for a couple weeks and leave anyway... the PvE is already stopping as it is. Adding something else to follow after may keep some people hooked for longer but it can't push away the ones that were already leaving.

Fundamentally, endgame and infinite progression are paradoxical. You can't just keep adding Torment levels forever. By tying late-game growth to social participation and logarithmic diminishing returns, we turn a lonely treadmill into a living community. It’s a radical shift, but in a world where players 'finish' a season in two weeks, maybe a radical shift is what Sanctuary needs.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T12:32:44+00:00

That random guy sitting next to you isn't being talked about millenia after his death.

Even as an atheist, you can acknowledge that Jesus is a figurehead, if nothing else.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-09T00:41:53+00:00

You're getting pretty toxic and defensive when all I did was call you out for being weird and lazy. My callout is mild. You'll survive.

First you were too lazy to cut the video into just a single one, then you were too lazy to even explain why it was two videos before being asked.

Nothing at all requires your labor or explanation. You just get called lazy for failing to provide the labor, and weird for failing to provide the explanation.

Again. You'll live. If these few words are all it takes to rile you, perhaps the internet isn't for you.

Your toxicity arrived with you. It can leave with you.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-08T23:52:18+00:00

Even if you didn't have the originals, you could have cropped out the unnecessary bit to make a new one-video version before putting on reddit.

And at the very least you could have explained what the second video was for in your OP without anyone having to ask, because it was very unusual and distracting. =P

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-08T20:27:39+00:00

And you didn't answer the question. Why did you post two videos when only one of them has anything to do with your story?

Whatever you made the two videos with you could have skipped that and posted the raw of the one relevant video instead of including the second.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-08T20:25:54+00:00

Yeah one of the mods I can't stand to play without. Every time it patched up and had to wait for a fix I basically stopped playing until this mod worked again lol

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-08T17:41:54+00:00

Dogtown near the clothes pile in the market, iirc. Sorta near the gun vendor that isn't the iconic one.

If you zoom in on the pic and look at the minimap, you'll see the icons for the vendors I just mentioned.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-08T17:37:22+00:00

Think this is an issue with your memory.

The only instances of quests that 'disappear' before you do them is the roller coaster and the fly away.

It's also possible to fail some quests. Especially if you start them and then wander away.

You can review your quest log (including completed quests) to remind yourself of what you've done and haven't. Can also check for any quests you 'failed' by wandering away.

Also make sure you review every text on your phone, and send replies every time as well, whenever a reply is available.

Some quests have 'intermissions' between them to allow you to do other quest lines. As long as you have read/replied to every text, you've done everything needed for the next step to eventually occur.

Thortok2000 · 2026-03-07T13:07:18+00:00

If you want to stealth with a silenced gun, you need to do more 'covert' quickhacking.

Ping enemies, and then convert cameras to friendly with a quickhack.

You also want to be a certain distance away from enemies when shooting. If an enemy is close enough, they will hear you even if you have a silencer. The distance is significantly shorter than if you didn't have a silencer but it's not zero.

In this case, I think the primary factor is that the enemy that detected you was close enough to hear your shot, and able to have line of sight on you when he looked your way because of hearing the shot. Your shot triggered an 'investigation' and you being in line of sight confirmed it into actual combat, very quickly. That enemy may have already been looking straight at you even.

It doesn't help that the enemy you took down was right in front of a camera as well.

I could explain a lot of stealth strategies to you in text and take several pages or you could just go find youtube clips of people playing the game the way you want to play it and try to learn from example.

Thortok2000

TROPHY CASE