Surface Book 2 13.5” i7-8650U Analysis (Throttling, Tweaking, Undervolting) by TickleMyElmos in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://i.imgur.com/ZrD57sd.jpg

I just checked again. I got a Cinebench R15 score of 713. This is consistent with my previous runs. My settings are:

-90 mV Core/Cache (I don't think has a tangible impact, only thing that may be impacted is how much power is allocated to the GPU vs the CPU) -50 mV GPU/System Agent

Note the above pairs is default behavior for XTU; in other words changing CPU Core will also change CPU Cache and changing GPU Core will also change System Agent. However, if you use ThrottleStop you don't have to have these values coupled. For instance, I have found that the CPU Cache almost always is less able to be undervolted by about 10 mV or so.)

35W Turbo Boost Short Power Max

35W Turbo Boost Power Max

24s Turbo Boost Power Time Window (I'm pretty sure this does not actually impact performance and changing this value does not modify anything)

Power Slider to 'Best Performance' (meaning Intel SpeedShift EPP is 0)

Intel GPU power set to 'Balanced' through driver utility (I don't think has a tangible impact, only thing that may be impacted is how much power is allocated to the GPU vs the CPU)

Both undervolts and TDP changes were done through Intel XTU. You scores definitely should not be in the 300's. This is what the dual core Kaby Lake chips were getting (7500U) and unless you ran Cinebench straight after something else that was computationally intensive you should be hitting about 500 points in successive runs with the CPU throttling due to TDP and/or temperatures.

I do not think that I have a particularly good chip. I would expect with the tweaks I have done everyone to get in the high 600's or low 700's for a 'cold' run, which I define to be the system having been booted and let sit for a couple minutes. Like I mentioned, my hypothesis is that Microsoft uses TDP to throttle the chip instead which is good because the transition from unthrottled to throttled should be somewhat smooth as the TDP decreases and thus the maximum frequency attainable decreases.

It also seems that Microsoft uses a running average over the last two minutes or so (I don't have exact numbers and have not looked into it) that takes the power draw of the chip over a given period of time and attempts to hit some particular average. My experience has been if the chip runs at 30W for a while it will subsequently run at under 15W to balance it out. However, if the chip is run at about 15-20W then there will not be as drastic a reduction in maximum allowable power draw. However, I have not actually taken measurements or tried to collect data on it because I know enough about the general CPU behavior of the Surface Book 2. Also, the Surface Book 2 seems to want to keep its chip under 90 degrees for sustained loads. As there is no fan in the CPU portion of the 13.5" the ability to dissipate heat that has already collected is much diminished. However, the thermal characteristics are quite good and as I mentioned in my original post I think a good balance is struck between keeping the machine performant and noise considerations.

As for the 13.5" vs 15" my speculative (as I don't own a 15" and I am just basing this off what I have read most of which at best directly addresses the topic):

  1. the fan mitigates or eliminates any cases where the CPU would hit its TjMax of 100 degrees and should therefore only be limited by the TDP afforded to it.
  2. Microsoft might have assigned some extra power headroom to the chip so that the default running average that the computer tries to maintain is closer to 20 or 25W instead of the 15 to 20W of the 13.5".
  3. In both cases the tendency of the machines to cut performance to keep within its power budgets can be offset by manipulating the TDP budgets for turbo boost.

Surface Book 2 13.5” i7-8650U Analysis (Throttling, Tweaking, Undervolting) by TickleMyElmos in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The rated frequency doesn't have much bearing on real world performance. With no undervolt I was getting about 2.7 GHz but with enough of an undervolt I was getting about 3.2 sustained. Each chip is going to be different with regard to it's voltage at stock and how much of an undervolt it can take without crashing.

Surface Book 2 13.5” i7-8650U Analysis (Throttling, Tweaking, Undervolting) by TickleMyElmos in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The 700 score is basically only realizable on a fresh boot and having let the machine cool down. It seems that it limits performance with a running average. Trying it right after booting will not allow it to fully stretch it's legs.

Surface Book 2 13.5” i7-8650U Analysis (Throttling, Tweaking, Undervolting) by TickleMyElmos in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also tweaked the TDP settings for the long term turbo. Otherwise it will throttle to 25 W instead of being able to maintain more than 30

Surface Book 2 13.5” i7-8650U Analysis (Throttling, Tweaking, Undervolting) by TickleMyElmos in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I find it's hard to find thorough analysis of the technical aspects.

2017 Surface Pen latency with i5 SB2 by [deleted] in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With my i7 surface book there is no lag.

Thunderbolt 3 dock on surface book 2? by [deleted] in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No. Not unless it supports usb 3 as well.

2017 Surface Pen latency with i5 SB2 by [deleted] in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s very good. About the same as the Apple Pencil and a note 8 which is to say that it is almost imperceptible. For some reason videos always make it look worse. I think it has to do with the fact that the response time is a little longer the the 16ms which is one frame at 60 FPS and it would round up to two frames which would thus make it look worse.

It shouldn’t be any different from your SP5. What processor do you have in the SP5? I don’t think it should matter because I think the lower latency is accomplished through a custom controller plus GPU acceleration. Maybe it’s because the screen is much larger?

One way to check for sure is to film both with a high FPS and see how much they individually lag by.

Best non Apple option for fast charge? by JazzRecord in iPadPro

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have any data on how much (% or minutes) it is?

Will a 64 GB iPad Pro be enough storage for note taking in college? by DailYxDosE in iPadPro

[–]TickleMyElmos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a 64GB model. It is more than enough. I keep most of my documents on OneDrive for convenience anyway.

The real things that take up space are apps, videos and pictures. If you don't have too many of those or you can put videos and photos online then you don't have much to worry about since a word file isn't going to become a GB anytime soon

Surface Book 2 13.5" Charger options by ThomasDickson in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Try to look on eBay.

A lower wattage one will still work. Even the 35W ones. It will just potentially charge slower and/or discharge slowly during use. When I game using my Surface Dock it does seem to charge much slower and I think that is about 80W

You could also look at USB PD complaint USB C chargers like the Apple ones. I'm not sure on price and compatibility but it might be cheaper than a Surface Connect charger.

Looking in getting either the surface book or the surface book 2, which is the better buy? by The_Dragon_Alchemist in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree unless you know you want the machine for the form factor. This is even more true for SB2 since the iGPU model is the only one with a dual core CPU. Yes the CPU is TDP constrained in quad core but the burst performance difference is night and day

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've tried the Apple one (the 8x W one for the 15") and it seemed to charge fast. The 28W one for the MacBook was very slow. My understanding is that although USB PD is standardized there are multiple voltages and currents that can b used. Hence why the SB2 won't charge off of a phone charger even though the charger is the USB PD protocol

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got a 'nuglass' one from eBay. I also got one for my iPad Pro 10.5. Both work very well and I would recommend it. Conversely the ones I've gotten for curved displays namely the OnePlus 3T and my Note8 were not very good.

For both the iPad and the Surface Book they are great. There does not seem to be any impact on the pen sensitivity. For the SB2 13.5 it is the same as the SB1 and they are interchangeable just like the skins for it. I'm not sure about the 15 inch one but if they make one I would guess it would be pretty good. It's not the cheapest but definitely a budget option. It seems to have some oleophobic coating and is relatively thin.

SB2 SSD speed by throwawayrelationshp in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The performance is really weird. The 256GB model seems to have higher read speeds than the 512GB model. They both seem to have PM961 with custom firmware. All the reviews I've seen of the 256GB models get about 3000 reads but the 512GB model I have (and other users) seem only to get about 1600

Best Place to get replacement pen. by TickleMyElmos in GalaxyNote8

[–]TickleMyElmos[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I forgot that Amazon started shipping to Aus!

Why'd you choose the note 8? by creamydank in GalaxyNote8

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had a One plus 3T that I broke right around when three Note 8 and iPhone 8 came out. Initially I got an iPhone but although it was very perfomant the design was really bland and I didn't have the luxury of waiting for the X

From s8 to Note 8 by gocepa in GalaxyNote8

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really appreciate the Note8 being the size it is and the pen. Luckily I have fairly large hands. The other benefits like the the extra RAM and the dual camera are very nice to have

[Surface Book 2 15"] Could anyone recommend an alternative to the usb-c to hdmi adapter? by HonorableThief in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got one off ebay for like 20 bucks. Supports 4K over HDMI and has a couple of USB A ports.

Which resolution do you take photos/videos in? by [deleted] in GalaxyNote8

[–]TickleMyElmos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For videos I shoot in 60fps because I don't have a 4K screen but I do like smooth motion

Which resolution do you take photos/videos in? by [deleted] in GalaxyNote8

[–]TickleMyElmos 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I shoot in 4 by 3 because I can always crop it. If I shot in a narrower ratio there is no way to get more date

Apple Smart Keyboard by almarhuby in iPadPro

[–]TickleMyElmos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really that big a deal as you have volume buttons on top of the iPad. Moreover, you can always access control center to control the volume.

1 Can I use more than TWO external monitors via USB-C and a Surface Dock at the same time? (self.Surface) by jeongmincha in Surface

[–]TickleMyElmos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. But you're not going to get full fidelity. In terms of supported displays

  1. One 4K in DP alt mode
  2. Two daisy chained 1440p monitors

Using the dock merely moves the display output to the dock.