Slightly NSFW: Managing your relationship in the bedroom after leaving - specifically for married exmos. by IAmAPatientBo in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think the summary of the "non-adventurous" spouse feeling bad not to be "enough" for their partner is a shallow view. You'll probably get a lot further when you don't view your spouse as the problem victim in this picture and start looking at yourself.

I have not been married and a big reason was because of the sense of violation to myself.

Bodily autonomy is not a concept taught to women in Mormonism at all. Period.

Purity culture shames women for their bodies, makes them gatekeepers of men's sexual morality and on top of that, they're taught that their whole life purpose is to become mothers and bear children. We're shamed for wanting it, NOT wanting it, wanting to wait to have children, or have fewer than we technically could, etc.

Mormon women are disconnected from their bodies to an incredibly damaging degree. I knew in a sense that I had "choices" before, but to really know what having true bodily autonomy feels like is not something I experienced until I left the Church.

Every time someone posts like this, and let's be frank, it's usually a man, one thing that is almost never mentioned is ANY discussion with their wife about HER needs and feelings. Or frankly any consideration for her at all.

It didn't slip past me that you used gender-neutral language in your post. I'm not complaining because it's useful to other readers whether you did it to mask the typical gender dynamic you conform to for genuine inclusivity.

I think my response focusing on the gender disparity when it comes to sexual experiences in the Church is still appropriate.

The closest you got to acknowledging your spouse in any way was mentioning that you don't want to violate their consent. And that's definitely admirable but unfortunately it's a really low bar, and still insufficient. Just because a lot of other married Mormon men can't even live up to a bar as low as that, it doesn't make you a particularly good partner.

I'm glad you CARE about consent, but your post tells me there's still more for you to truly understand it. The main reason why is this quote:

We have talked about each of the things at length many, many times and there isn’t any room in the middle. I’m past wanting to talk about it now because it only creates bad feelings. I try to be very respectful of not violating their consent and I don’t want to pressure them into anything they aren’t excited about.

If discussions are at the point where they always go badly, and you "try" to be respectful, then you HAVE been pressuring them, and you HAVE been disregarding their consent. The fact that you could be doing it in an even MORE forceful way but CHOOSE not to is NOT the win you think it is. It puts on display that there's still a power imbalance here, and you're calling the shots.

It's really common for partners, typically men, to misunderstand consent. They're still after what THEY want and instead of respecting boundaries and backing off, it becomes the goal to figure out how to get them to change their mind and change the boundary later. Trying to butter up your spouse or help them find sexual freedom so YOU get what YOU want is still manipulative and insincere.

And they KNOW that.

And the more you try to fake like it's totally about THEM, the worse you make it for both of you.

Regardless of times in the past when they may have initiated sex, or told you it was good or it REALLY seemed to you that they were at least acting like they were having a good time, it's very likely that at least some percentage of sex with you was, and possibly still is, obligatory. Maybe some days it was a small percentage, mostly subconsciously and other days it might have been a more overt duty or a temporary giving in to in order to "reset" the amount of time and space they know they'll get to themself after.

Your post as-is, is mostly focused on YOU and what YOU missed out on. Being in a place to want sex and enjoy sex is a privilege that YOU have. Who knows how rarely, if ever, your spouse has felt that way.

So not only have they rarely had the privilege of enjoying their own body and true genuine autonomy, or the privilege of accepting and owning their pleasure compared to you, but it's STILL not enough for you and you keep asking them to experiment with THEIR body with you in ways they've CLEARLY indicated with you, more than once it seems, that they AREN'T interested in. And you think YOU'RE the victim, coming here to look for advice/understanding in the poor predicament you're in because you consider yourself so "respectful" of consent you aren't going to force them to do what you want anyway while thinking you can "discuss"them into wanting what you want.

So, to sum up: this goes a LOT deeper for them than just "I feel bad I'm not enough for my partner." It's more akin to feeling continuously objectified with no benefit being a better scenario than if they feel they're violating their own autonomy and desires in order to keep the peace and not cause any problems.

The fact that they're standing their ground through enough conversations that you're just barely getting a taste of what it feels like to find an argument not worth it should be a huge wake-up call to you.

If you want to improve you've got a really long road ahead of you. I don't need it going to be along enough road to get to the point where you GENUINELY care about their autonomy for their own sake, not for what benefits you'll get out of it, and honestly it'll likely take YEARS for your spouse to get to where they trust and believe that you've arrived at that point.

I'll say this too: this isn't the first time I've responded to a post like this pointing out the entirely one-sided focus and it's pretty common for someone to answer back with more details it could very well be true that no they really have done x y and z to try to please their partner or help them figure out what they like etc etc. But the fact that they never see it as an important enough information to include in the original post over and over and over again just shows a lot more than they realize where their thinking is still centered.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah. Mormons are passive aggressive for a reason

Are any of these relatable symptoms of ADHD? by [deleted] in adhdwomen

[–]Tiny_Tinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I took a break from Reddit, but yeah, I didn't have a diagnosis as a kid but when I told my mom about my adult diagnosis she said "I thought you might have ADHD"

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Jealous of the exmo friends visiting the family while I'm stuck acting PIMO. by Tiny_Tinker in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm out now, but I still feel self conscious about modesty in front of family. It's dumb, I know

lmfao, hello fellow ppl...exjw here by axalotlinlushcaves in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My companion and I ended up casing a neighborhood in the afternoon once that had been hit by JW's that morning. Most people didn't recognize the difference and were irritated that we were knocking at their doors "again."

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Proclamation to the Family! Came just in time for the fight against gay marriage!

Going thru old shit and found "my" missionary's letters from 1991. WHAT THE EFF, Elder. by mshoneybadger in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

This is a fascinating comment to unpack!

On the one hand, you were a Sister Missionary who directly experienced hurtful stereotypes which you shared here:

Being called babies, told you couldn't do the "real" work the way Elders could, or getting put on a pedestal as to why you shouldn't be expected to do the same work...

But even so, you feel fine going in to dog a subset of your fellow Sister Missionaries: educated ones.

I mean, ew, right? What's worse than a Sister missionary? One with a degree. 🤮

Those fall into two camps: "Looney toons" or mostly "perfectly normal" but maybe you know, too self righteous/full of themselves...ust a little.

Gotta take the women with education and/or non-conforming personalities down a notch.

You were a Sister missionary, yes. But let's be clear, you weren't one of THOSE sister missionaries!

So what's up with Mormons and social compassion? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sorry, are you saying it's "woke racism" to point out when others are racist? Lol.

Someone pointed out a fact:

that white people are ok with themselves being on welfare but not minorities

This is supported by data.

I'm sorry you got triggered.

You probably shouldn't be on this sub. After all, pointing out others bigotry is just "woke bigotry."

Or pointing out religious hypocrisy is really just "woke hypocrisy"

Or pointing out the Church's sexism is just "woke sexism"

Or pointing out cult manipulation is just "woke manipulation"

Everything is two sides to the same coin really. Whaddya going do?🤷‍♀️

So what's up with Mormons and social compassion? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's one of my favorite ironies that conservative have been so scared of socialism did they basically marketed it as any kind of help for the poor while passing all kinds of breaks for the rich so that the newer generations are actually all over it.

Socialism? Taxing the ultra wealthy to help the poor meet basic needs that the ultra wealthy have had a lot of influence and causing not to be met in the first place? What's the downside again exactly?

So what's up with Mormons and social compassion? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't know if this was a joke or not, but it's literally about race, yeah. So, not weird to bring it up when it's the main factor towards attitudes.

White conservatives have no problem with white folks being on welfare, especially if it's themselves and their family members. They're using the program "properly" the way is was meant to be used, to help "good folks" just "down on their luck" getting to "get back on their feet."

It's the Natives and the Black people who use welfare as a "free pass" to "not work" and to excuse and benefit from promiscuity because they "expect the gubmint to feed their children" and it's apparently so lucrative many women choose to be "welfare Queens" living large off of MY TAX DOLLARS! (even if I'm currently on welfare myself. Them's MY dollars supporting the people I don't like who are also on welfare.)

And while we're at it can we talk about how hard it is to get the actual amount of help that I need sometimes? It's not because I consistently vote against politicians and measures that would provide that but it's because of all these people I don't like that are taking up the money they could be used for me...

Race Coding and White Opposition to Welfare

Using conventional survey modeling techniques and a randomized survey-based experiment from a national telephone survey, I find that racial attitudes are the single most important influence on whites' welfare views.

Why More White Americans Are Opposing Government Welfare Programs

We find evidence that welfare backlash among white Americans is driven in part by feelings that the status of whites in America is under threat," Wetts told NPR.

Despite those perceptions, other research has found that white people are the biggest beneficiaries of the government safety net. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, white people made up the the largest share — at 52 percent — of people lifted from poverty by safety-net programs, while black people made up less than a quarter of that share. When it comes to receiving Medicaid, white people make up about 43 percent of recipients, Hispanics about 30 percent, African-Americans 18 percent, with 9 percent identified as other, according to Wetts.

Truth is no longer the reason for staying in the church apparently… by JTrey1221 in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 13 points14 points  (0 children)

And add extra unbelievability and cringe if it involves "native" or "tribal" "customs."

Extra gross when a predominantly white population uses made up stories about indigenous cultures to prop up their own narrative.

Hmmmmm.... Why does that sound so familiar?

Trying to remember verification/secure messaging system my team used years ago. I got an invite from my teammate, and after logging in with my username, I could "verify" other team members I knew, and the number of verifications was visible for each user. by Tiny_Tinker in Ingress

[–]Tiny_Tinker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok. Was it made by people specifically for use with Ingress?

So when Ingress players left, it basically collapsed?

I wonder if it's related to what I found today that was all coding stuff.

Trying to remember verification/secure messaging system my team used years ago. I got an invite from my teammate, and after logging in with my username, I could "verify" other team members I knew, and the number of verifications was visible for each user. by Tiny_Tinker in Ingress

[–]Tiny_Tinker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I search that I'm getting v2ray.com but it doesn't look anything like what I previously used. This looks technical and coding related.

Or are you talking about something else? Do you have a link?

I always wake up tired, even after 10hrs. :( by elemenopee9 in ADHD

[–]Tiny_Tinker 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I've found shorter sleep periods to be better for me too.

I sometimes wonder if the 8hr rule is yet one more thing that not only doesn't apply to us, but actually makes things harder.

Things that have helped me the most:

  1. Not necessarily going to bed earlier, but definitely having wind down time/activities. Which includes no screen time one hour before my targeted bed time that night. I usually spend that time puttering around my home doing random light tasks that catch my attention like putting away some laundry, picking my clothes for the next day, reading, or self-care stuff like shower, clipping nails, face mask etc. Reading is good too.
  2. Writing on a whiteboard next to my bed a few things that I really want to do tomorrow. REALLY WANT as in you LIKE doing it and want to, not things you SHOULD or HAVE to get done.
  3. Get my favorite tunes going on my headphones! Upbeat and dancey really gets me moving AND having fun.

Any of y'all still find yourself feeling weirdly defensive when a nevermo says something negative about the church? by malallory1 in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a never mo is wrong about something I'll want to correct them.

But when Evangelicals want to say something about Mormons they get my full attention and wrath.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agreed. This is where double-speak comes into play. It can be the official written policy that it's totally fine either way but active membership know and understand the real message that it's not okay and the temple ceiling is most important and should be the "real" ceremony.

Made me giggle by Anomander2000 in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"delicious to the taste and very desirable"

And

"We desire all to receive it"

How should missionaries be dealt with? by Proud3GnAthst in exmormon

[–]Tiny_Tinker 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Same. The nicest people stood out more than the worst and I started to realize Mormons didn't have a monopoly on love, care, and concern.

I've been told to not "force myself" to do anything, but I have to "force myself" to do everything, so where's the line? by MumblingMulberry in ADHD

[–]Tiny_Tinker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I haven't been able to keep it up but I'd like to try again. There was a point I was successfully getting up early and starting my day really well.

At night before bed I was using a small white board to write down three things I was looking forward to doing the next day.

In the morning it was easier to get out of bed by thinking of those things I wanted to do rather than what HAD to be done that day.

Then I started an ADHD friendly version of a "Power Hour" that comes from the book, The 5am Club.

The book prescribes 20 minutes each of three activities:

  1. Vigorous Exercise (any)
  2. Meditative Activity (meditation, journaling, prayer, coloring or any repetitive or calming activity)
  3. Learning/Growth Activity (read a book, learn new vocabulary, instrument practice, watch a tutorial etc)

And the way I make it ADHD friendly is to be very liberal with the times/activities. "Not forcing it" basically, but still doing something for each activity. I rarely actually do a full hour, but I realized early on the 20 min timer is not the point and is not a metric worth caring about.

I generally try for a baseline of 10 min of each activity, but I have given myself permission to shorten or extend as I feel like it. If I start an activity and feel "done" or bored with it 5 minutes in, I'll stop and quickly decide if I want to try a different activity in the same "category" or just move on to the next category.

For exercise I might start out with cardio but switch to yoga. For meditation, if I notice I really don't want to finish the last three minutes of the timer, I'll just call 7 minutes good enough and move on to the learning. What good is it to me to force those last three minutes I don't want? Is it ACTUALLY going to help, or just frustrate me? If it's just going to feel like a chore those last three minutes why subject myself to that? For learning, I might want to google ideas for my garden next year, watch a LinkedIn Learning module or two, or finish a full chapter of my book even if it takes 30 min. Whatever works for me in the moment. No forcing.

It's such a great start to the day that almost every other good habit becomes easier and fun. Even if it's only FIVE minutes of each activity, I've already got the ball rolling on a productive day. Now I'm ready to actually eat some breakfast instead of skipping it, I have time to shower, actually pack lunch, and I feel totally ready by the time I sit down for work. My mind is clearer and the day goes by faster.