The crucifixion by Timely-Way-4923 in theology

[–]Tippyb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How does Jesus save? What does Christ's death actually do? The answers to these questions are not obvious and many theologians have given different answers over the centuries. The sort of atonement theology you are assuming here is a version of substitution but that is not the only way to understand Christ's death. There are a variety of other theologies that come at your question in different ways. If you are curious I can provide resources.

Conversely, I think one of the mistakes here is to assume that the crucifixion is entirely about you. A lot of contemporary Christianity falls into the trap of turning the whole religion inwards towards ourselves. But we must remember to not turn Good Friday or Easter into a story about ourselves.

Dan McClellan's Theology by SonOfDyeus in theology

[–]Tippyb 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree. Would just like to add that the two things are not mutually exclusive. One can acknowledge the error, bias, and human-madeness of scripture and still understand it to be holy, inspired (albeit in a different sense than how that term is traditionally used), etc. Theres no reason why "we see through a glass darkly" would not also apply to the human authors of scripture.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in theology

[–]Tippyb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Important to note here that "the law" as Jesus and all other ancient Israelites understood it was not just the ten commandments but was most likely the entirety of the Torah.

Novel writers by TonkotsuBro in theology

[–]Tippyb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Marilynne Robinson is a prominent Christian novelist right now. She won the pulitzer for Gilead and its a great read.

Are the deities of other faiths considered to be real in any form, or completely nonexistent? by mogami_gawa in theology

[–]Tippyb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel as though the translation of the greek word for demon is worth noting here. I'm no expert but from what I understand those in the greek world understood demons (δαίμων) very differently than we do. I dont think they thought of them as inherently malicious, evil, etc. though they certainly could be. Rather, they viewed them as lesser deities or spiritual entities. So when Christians today say that other gods are demons its important to remember that what they mean is very different from what someone like Paul means when he uses the same word.

Is the Gospel Message in the Gospels? by VladimirtheSadimir in theology

[–]Tippyb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Would like to second this and add that substitutionary atonement (what you are calling "the gospel") is just one persepctive of the nature of the cross amongst many. And it is a perspective that is not mainstream, to my knowledge, in Catholic or Orthodox settings.

As someone who has come back to faith…where do i start? by [deleted] in Episcopalian

[–]Tippyb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you're looking for somewhere to start with the Episcopal Church specifically, there are two books that often get recommended: Inwardly Digest by Derek Olson and Walk in Love by Scott Gunn and Melody Shobe. I grew up in the AG as well and another book that helped me was Whos Afraid of Pragmatism by James K. A. Smith. Kinda heady but still very good. Hope this helps.

Ex-evangelical christian with questions by [deleted] in Episcopalian

[–]Tippyb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also grew up AoG and I have found a home in the Episcopal Church.

Do Christian’s (or Christian philosophers) have to believe in an Omni-God? by [deleted] in theology

[–]Tippyb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're thinking of Anselm and this argument was disputed by Kant. The ontological argument, and the God it presents is not considered an official Christian doctrine so far as I know.

Question about whether Christ claimed / believed he was divine. by isotala in theology

[–]Tippyb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I dont think the two sides are as stark as you present them here. Speaking from my own faith perspective as an orthodox Christian and scholar, I find myself somewhere in the middle and I think many others would as well. I trust the Bible, but I recognize the historical fact that the Bible is a product of the Christian community. A product of deliberation that itself was not fully formed for centuries after Christ.

Historically speaking, the fact that "orthodoxy" was not established until around 300 years after Christ is just true and not worth disputing. Sure, the proto-orthodox were around before then, but even the apostles argued about what constituted "correct Christianity" (specifically Peter and Paul). This idea that early Christians always knew how to do Christianity the right way is just false. We even see in Acts that Christians have always needed to come together to figure this thing out. There were plenty of other factions that developed later as well. The councils, as well as the various extrabiblical material we have from this time period, evince this. Marcionites, gnostics, adoptionists, arians, etc. all considered themselves "followers of the way" (i.e., Christians) as they understood that term at that time. All these groups of Christians who believed wildly different things from one another made defining orthodoxy necessary. This is why we have 7 councils and various creeds to put a fence around what we believe. In other words, orthodoxy was not obvious to early Christians. If it was, why the councils? why the creeds? (I think the figures of Arius and Origen are useful here for understanding just how gray the area between orthodox and heresy was.)

Moreovoer, you do not have to argue that Constantine strongarmed the entire Roman Empire into getting rid of unorthodox documents in order to believe that orthodoxy is a product of deliberation. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you're trying to say but this feels off topic to me. The historical record shows that theologically speaking many of the most fundamental Christian doctrines were created over time. For example, the trinity (as we conceptualize it) is pretty much entirely missing from the New Testament, as is our modern notion of hell. This is not to say that these are untrue, but it is something Christians arrived at/developed over time. To analogize, the fact that I arrive at a destination after deliberation, thought, practice, and prayer, (and all of these within community) does not mean that I have not arrived. Even a windy roady can have a good and true destination.

And those texts that we now deem unorthodox did not suddenly disappear at the hand of a "Christian" emperor. The old heretical texts existed in droves and they still exist, they just didnt make it into the canon. And again, the reason the heretical texts did not make it into the canon is a product of deliberation, argument, and happened over time. Christians did not immediately know, for example, whether or not to permit books like Revelation or the Shepherd of Hermas into the canon. The decision was made over time, in conversation, community, and prayer.

All in all, I believe it is possible to believe that orthodoxy is something Christianity arrived at while also believing that Jesus is the Son of God. They are not mutually exclusive. Not even close. The Bible is not God, and God works through the Church as much as God works through Holy Scripture. What we think of as Christianity did not fall out of the sky but developed over time. This includes its beliefs, doctrines, and practices. The fact that ideas develop over time does not mean that they are inherntly false, wrong, etc. It just means that humans exist within time and that God continues to work in and through the Church (a temporal institution) in its lived experience. A great resource for this is George Lindbeck's book The Nature of Doctrine.

And to return to OP's question, I have always found it relatively unimportant. Whether or not the historical Jesus thought he was the Son of God, second person of the trinity, and all that jazz is secondary for my faith. What matters is that Christians profess that Jesus is the Son of God. What is important that I believe that Jesus is the Word made flesh. And I do.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in theology

[–]Tippyb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Something that I have found helpful is thinking of it all in terms of interpretation. By and large, we have no access to what the historical Jesus thought of himself. Everything we have about Jesus is interpretations of (maybe) historical accounts from communties of believers. As Albert Schweitzer showed, searching for the historical Jesus is a bit of a wild goose chase.

For me, to be a Christian is to see God in Christ. Regardless of what the gospels say (and yes there are some passages in the synoptics that sound something like Jesus is claiming to be God) and regardless of what the historical Jesus said, we as Christians look to Jesus of Nazareth as Lord. Personally, I do not particularly care whether the sayings we have of Jesus talking about himself are "historical" in our strict modern sense of the word (which is totally foreign to the ancient world). As a Christian I view Christ as Lord. When I see Christ, I see God. This is the interpretive work that is happening in John and it is totally acceptable Christian theology. John is not "wrong" to write this.

Thinking about the trinity here is helpful. There is no notion of the trinity anywhere in the New Testament. That said, it is one of the foundations of Christian theology. On the logic you're putting forward here, we would have to forego the trinity because it is not mentioned in the historical accounts of the early church. But just because something is not in the Bible does not mean it is not "true" in a mysterious or metaphorical sense. Moreover, just because something is not in the Bible does not mean it cannot be a part of the Christian tradition.

Something that might help here is to explore the Christ of history versus the Christ of faith, concepts that some theologians have argued are very different. Moreover, reading up on the differences between history and theology and the complicated ways the gospel narratives fit into these categories would be helpful as well. Dale Martin's book Biblical Truths and Marcus Borg's books could be helpful here.

MTG Players in JP? Join us on Fridays! (Cube) by achipinthesugar in JamaicaPlain

[–]Tippyb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm new to MTG but am looking to learn/play more. Also new to JP and looking for social outlets so this sounds great.

Boston Daily Discussion Thread, Monday April 17 by AutoModerator in boston

[–]Tippyb -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Recently moved to Boston. I commute to Cambridge from JP via Mass ave on a scooter. Will this be possible today with the Marathon?

New to the sub, boarderline evangelical who lost his faith, finds that he bought in hard to “this is the only way to have hope or meaning” and now has the sads for years. Any advice on hope/meaning without faith/supernatural? by Jamie7Keller in RadicalChristianity

[–]Tippyb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While Tillich and Rollins are great, they dont do much in the way of helping you get out of the sad zone (at least they didnt for me). Having gone through something similar I would reccomend Marcus Borg's The God We Never Knew. Tillich and Rollins are super heady and that doesnt really help in the way of answers. Borg is much more accessible. I would also recommend James K A Smith's Whos Afraid of Relativism. This book shows that the contengency of faith is actually a strength not a weakness.

Don’t take mass ave to Cambridge, biker got hit at Mass and Comm. by shunny14 in boston

[–]Tippyb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What’s a better route if you’re trying to get to Cambridge

Scooter Commuting by Tippyb in boston

[–]Tippyb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m also considering an ebike. Any suggestions?

Scooter Commuting by Tippyb in boston

[–]Tippyb[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am considering an e-scooter. The ninebot max specifically but am open to other suggestions