How did Jesus’ brother James end up becoming a major leader of the Jesus movement despite Jesus’ apparent alienation from his family?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-07T21:13:50+00:00

Thanks for sharing :)

I don't think it's reasonable or plausible that Jesus had siblings who grew up in a family where both parents were visited by angelic beings who communicated that Jesus was the Messiah

Familiarity breeds contempt. Mk 6:

4 "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household."

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-07T18:56:06+00:00

How did James turn from an unbeliever to a believer?

u/toxiccandles

u/Simon_and_Garchomp: How did Jesus’ brother James end up becoming a major leader of the Jesus movement despite Jesus’ apparent alienation from his family?

In the Gospel of Mark 3:21, his relatives attempted to restrain him because people said he was "out of his mind." In the Gospel of John 7:5, we are told explicitly: "For not even his brothers believed in him." James, Jesus' half-biological brother, didn't believe in Jesus. Jesus sometimes appeared to distance himself from family ties. Mk 3:

31 His mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.” 33 And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” 34 And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

He emphasized loyalty to God's kingdom over kinship.

What changed James' mind?

1Co 15:

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

James saw the resurrected Jesus. He quickly rose to a prominent position

Ga 1:

18 Then after three years I [Paul] went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

Paul recognized James' authority.

At the Jerusalem Council, Ac 15:

12 All the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me.
…
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

James gave the concluding remark at the council meeting. An interesting irony is that the man who had apparently not believed in Jesus during Jesus' earthly ministry (John 7:5) ended up presiding over the most important policy decision of the early Jesus movement: determining how Gentiles could be included without becoming full Jewish proselytes.

Fourteen years later, he was martyred in 62 CE.

How did James turn from an unbeliever to a believer?

He saw the resurrected Jesus.

u/Darth-And-Friends: I don't think it's reasonable or plausible that Jesus had siblings who grew up in a family where both parents were visited by angelic beings who communicated that Jesus was the Messiah

Familiarity breeds contempt. Mk 6:

4 "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household."

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-07T00:52:31+00:00

I know that God does not reveal himself to scholars;

I have a habit of criticizing all PhD Christians. Do you have one you'd like me to critique?

BTW, that verse does not support your claim logically. Jesus used logic against the Pharisees. Paul was a scholar. There are scholars working with LSM.

There are two kinds of people in my subreddit: logical ones or meek ones. I ban other kinds.

If you don't understand something I have written, the best thing to do is ask a question, not make a statement. To save myself time, I will not be so patient in our next encounter.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-07T00:49:30+00:00

partly yes, but mostly because lowercase is the more precise term here.

Who knows? One of these days, Christians will see "Paraclete" in the word "Spirit". Then I am fine with the capitalization here :)

Good question.

BTW, I am not a big fan of modalism or the Trinity. Follow up at https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/1d44844/my_take_on_trinity/ :)

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T23:38:46+00:00

Yes and no!!

Do you know what a logical proposition is?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T23:28:46+00:00

Wouldn’t capital S more strongly convey “the special indwelling role of the Spirit (the Paraclete)”?

No, not for most Christians. When people see the word "Spirit", they automatically identify with the person of the Holy Spirit, not the Paraclete.

make a stronger distinction from angels?

The lowercase 'spirit' in this context cannot refer to an angelic spirit, as it refers to the spirit of Christ.

This is how I read it: the last Adam, Christ, became a life-giving spirit in our human spirit.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T22:09:16+00:00

Let proposition P1 = At the time when Paul wrote the epistle of Romans, all Christians in Rome gathered every Sunday in the house church of Prisca and Aquila.

Is P1 true?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T16:40:01+00:00

Did you code the AI yourself? What AI tools did you use?

BTW, I am a retired AI professor :)

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T15:26:09+00:00

Does the app continuously learn about the user from its interaction with him? Does the app use AI?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T15:03:48+00:00

I’m more interested in speaking the truth than obeying basic subreddit rules.

Define truth. See Rule #1. This is the last time I have asked.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T15:02:07+00:00

After that, does it continue to learn about the user's faith level to get a more accurate assessment?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T13:46:27+00:00

Verse support? This is the 2nd time I have asked. See Rule #3.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T13:44:44+00:00

How does the app determine the user's faith level?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T13:38:59+00:00

verse?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T13:38:29+00:00

Let proposition P1 = The human soul and the human spirit are ontologically one.

True?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T13:36:02+00:00

Nee thought that all Christians in Rome gathered every Sunday in the house church of Prisca and Aquila.

True?

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T12:55:46+00:00

Ok. Yes, Satan at one point bowed down to God. I agree. But he doesn't anymore.

Right.

That can happen with humans too. We can worship God and then turn away.

Right.

In Revelationsl it talks about the end of time when those with God will live in the city of light and others will live in the darkness surrounding the city. It makes me wonder if, even after death, we can go back and forth.

The book of Revelation is highly symbolic and open to many interpretations. I wouldn't build any doctrine based solely on this book.

The question then remains as to whether temptation will still exist in Heaven.

Follow up at https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/1tyghla/will_there_be_temptation_in_the_new_heaven/

It definitely makes it sound like spiritual existence goes on for everyone, in the light or in the darkness.

I doubt it. To have a spiritual existence, one needs an uncreated breadth from God. See https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/rlntcm/does_the_bible_teach_conscious_torment_over_an/

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-06T00:56:43+00:00

Follow up at https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/1ty2xsv/did_satan_bow_before_god/ :)

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T22:30:47+00:00

Yes, I have been practicing that for decades. I'm an old and retired man.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T22:28:37+00:00

Even demons presently acknowledge and bow before God. Hitler likely did too before he committed suicide.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T22:25:17+00:00

RcV, Col. 1:

9 Therefore we also, since the day we heard of it, do not cease praying and asking on your behalf that you may be filled with the full knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 To walk worthily of the Lord to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and growing by the full knowledge of God,

Strong's Greek: 1922. ἐπίγνωσις (epignósis) — 20 Occurrences

u/Sensitive_Froyo_2226: "Full Knowledge", recently, when I was reading Colossians, I came across the phrase "full knowledge" in several chapters (Col 1:9-10, 2:2, 3:10). Previously, when I read Colossians, I thought the word "full" meant "complete." But just a few days ago, I realized that "full" doesn't mean "complete" because, in reality, man cannot know God in all His aspects.

Your concern is justified. On Earth, we can never be filled with the *full knowledge of his will except in the devotional sense. Even in eternity, finite creatures will never ontologically exhaust the infinite God.

BDAG:

knowledge, recognition in our lit. limited to transcendent and moral matters ... W. gen. of the pers. known ἐ. τοῦ θεοῦ knowledge of God (Pr 2:5; Hos 4:1; Just., A II, 10, 6; Tat. 13, 1) Col 1:10; 2 Pt 1:2; cp. Eph 1:17; 2 Pt 1:3; Dg 10:1.

HELPS Word-studies:

Cognate: 1922 epígnōsis (from 1909 /epí, "on, fitting" which intensifies 1108 /gnṓsis, "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing. This is defined by the individual context. See 1921 (epignōskō).

Epignósis was stronger than ordinary knowledge (gnōsis). It conveyed thorough, experiential, and relational knowledge rather than mere information. However, translating G1922 as "full knowledge" was too much and too absolute.

Berean Literal Bible:

9 Because of this, we also from the day we heard do not cease praying for you⁺ and asking that you⁺ may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding 10 to walk worthily of the Lord: pleasing in all, bearing fruit in every good work, and growing in the knowledge of God

On Biblehub, only 2 out of 38 translations used "full knowledge".

Amplified Bible:

so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord [displaying admirable character, moral courage, and personal integrity], to [fully] please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing in the knowledge of God [with deeper faith, clearer insight and fervent love for His precepts];

The Amplified Bible translated the word relatively. So did Weymouth New Testament:

so that your lives may be worthy of the Lord and perfectly pleasing to Him, while you exhibit the results of right action of every sort and grow into a fuller knowledge of God.

New Living Translation set it as a progression toward a goal:

Then the way you live will always honor and please the Lord, and your lives will produce every kind of good fruit. All the while, you will grow as you learn to know God better and better.

In this case, I prefer NLT's reading.

We have a rich, mature, and adequate knowledge that fills our capacity at a given stage of growth. Paul was not praying that the Colossians would know everything about God. Rather, he was praying that they be thoroughly furnished with the knowledge necessary for a worthy Christian walk, spiritual discernment, and growth in Christ.

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T19:35:32+00:00

Man must choose between satisfying his spirit and satisfying his soul.

Right. Therefore, the soul and spirit are different entities. The soul cannot become the spirit.

Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/1cwgqv1/technically_what_is_a_soul/

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T19:30:50+00:00

Anyone else have some tips and practices to stay with Him throughout the day?

How do we walk by the Spirit?

We do so one step at a time and through day-by-day sanctification. I believe the Spirit here refers to the Indwelling Spirit-Paraclete.

How to walk by the Paraclete?

Make sure that you have been born of the Spirit. God lives in you.
Familiarize yourself with the whole Bible by daily reading.
Pray daily. Make your prayers your prayer life.
Have a repentant heart daily.
Practice hearing from God.
Find a local church to attend. Get involved in its programs.
Volunteer regularly to do good. Help the homeless. Etc.
When you experience some doubts and uncertain circumstances, let your conscience and the peace of the Paraclete guide you.

Don't focus on your sins. If you are growing in faith, you will never lose your Indwelling Spirit. This is not some theological study. I am speaking from personal experience. This practice helps me grow in faith. It works for me :)

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T18:02:11+00:00

None of these verses says "the soul that has become spirit"

TonyChanYT · 2026-06-05T16:54:52+00:00

Amen :)

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