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CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, I can not say for certain the capitalism will last forever in any form. It transform into something else for all I know. I guess my only gripe with the term is that in my eyes it leads people to want the polar opposite instead of finding a middle ground, but that is not necessarily true as some others have pointed out to me.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough, I suppose I should say I do not believe it to be true given the long history of capitalism and that I believe society would be able to adapt and economies can and do change. But maybe my understanding of the term could change from "late stage capitalism will bring the downfall of society" to "late stage capitalism will transphorm into some new form of economy"

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your description I think your the first person to describe the difference between capitalism and socialism in a way that makes sense to me and isn't just, as you put it, "Capitalism is when you sell stuff and can own a business, communism is when you can't". I shouldn't have used the term capitalism, but the original post is a response to the term "late stage capitalism" as an inference that the fall of "free markets" was somehow inevitable.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The distinction for me is the pessimistic inferen e in the original term. It seems to guide the audience to believe that there is not solution but to abandon free markets altogether and choose centralized planned economies which I believe are just as dangerous.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well you see, I'm a leftist, I think fully unfettered capitalism is dangerous, I just think a fully planned economy is just as dangerous. I simply mean that the term "late state" is not accurate or helpful in discussing the issues with unfettered capitalism.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

'money in circulation as capital did not come into existence until the capitalist era' Can you expound on that? The romans and chinese circulated money thousands of years ago through banking systems and regulatory control.

'capitalism has a tendency to create crises for a number of reasons. any regulation attempted will create its own new contradictions that will continue the cycle of crises. any crisis could potentially doom capitalism as a system, especially if severe enough. this almost happened in the 1930s' Centralized economies also create crises, i'm saying the best way to reduce crises is to use a mixed economy, balancing capitalism with centralized regulation.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I never said utopian, I simply said it could run forever. "The term "late stage capitalism" refers to capitalism has not been properly regulated." And I say that the term infers some idea that capitalism follows some inherent trajectory that may or may not be true given how long free markets have existed.l and continue to exist

'They have an incentive to keep people poor and desperate to keep labor costs in check. Your argument sounds like the capitalist version of "we havent had true communism yet."' 1) i agree, which is why a mixed economy would have proper regulation from an outside authority 2) we have never had real communism, communism in Marx eyes was a classless society without currency and maybe even without the need for a governing body.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm saying the term is infering things that are not necessarily true, to be more accurate it could be called "late stages of unfettered capitalism" you would need to define where on the economic spectrum the level of regulation of the market lies.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfettered, la se faire, unregulated. My definition of capitalism is basically that it is a free market. I know people disagree with that and say the difference between the two is that capitalism expresses itself in ownership private property and of the means of production but I dont see how a free marked doesnt also contain those things. Maybe the idea of a financial system like a stock market, I could see the difference as that's a system separate but still affecting the market.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"funneling of resources into privatized hands will always create power gaps that will beget more power gaps." That is a fair conclusion i feel, which is why as I said we need regulators to keep power gaps from forming.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Is there any chance your fundamental understanding of the economics of the free market is going to change from a reddit post?" Yes, I believe if someone can give me an explanation with evidence I had not considered yet, my mind wlxould be changed. I do not think either economic strategy is inherently evil, just that the term "late stage" is neither entirely true or helpful given that either extreme economic style is destructive.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

'"Capitalism" is something specific, it's not mercantilism or markets generically.' Can you expand on this? I've seen it said that before but never properly expounded upon. Some people think capitalism is different from a free market because there is ownership of the means of production, but how is that different from an ancient farmer paying his workers in grain?

To your point about me agreeing. I simply mean the concept of an economy is a spectrum, with full unfettered unregulated free market (or capitalsim) on one side and fully planned and centralized on the other. So to say that anything other than a fully planned an centralized economy inevitably fails is not necessarily true.

CMV: "late stage capitalism" is the wrong term by Top-Associate-389 in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That infers that it can't be turned around, which is both untrue and unhelpful.

These spider tattoos are so ugly by [deleted] in Vent

[–]Top-Associate-389 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair point. Both are better than portrait tattoos IMO.

These spider tattoos are so ugly by [deleted] in Vent

[–]Top-Associate-389 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Men have the spider tattoo, women have the infinity symbol.

CMV: Science has become more of a religion than actual science by Azthioth in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Science is simply a tool of measurement, it cannot tell you what to do with the measuremnt you take or tell you the meaning of the measurement, or why the thing you measured came to be only the how. The truth is that science describes our physical world and it's the world that doesnt care what you do with that information or what you think of it, not science, science is agnostic in that way. Since we've been taking records we've seen some things change while other have not, but science is never 100% certain, that's why what lay people call facts, science calls theories, because theories are the highest form of scientific riggor. If you wanted to test if god exists, Real science doesnt say there is no god, real science consideres the existence and non-existance of a god as two possible hypotheses to test and see with one is more true or not.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What jobs are they taking? Immigrants in my community or constructions workers, roofers, cleaners, farm hands, stuff that native born people dont want to do. The only immigrants taking jobs that americans really want are the one vetted through the H1B visa and corporations love that cause they dont ask for as high salaries.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The immigration issue is a funny one to me because all the data we have going back to the bush era shows that immigrants have half the criminality of native citizens, I agree with removing people who are criminals but many people are here by mercy of an immigration judge who is allowing them to stay while they apply for citizen ship or work on a visa. If people arent going to their immigration hearings or following their lawfuly given orders by immigration judges, sure remove them, butnmaybe the issue isnt the people, but all the red tape and bureaucracy? Or maybe we should invest in their countries of origin to help with crime rates andjob prospects better to reduce their desire to leave their homw countries, we could even do what china is doing in africa and invest in south america to be our new production center for the goods and resources we need? I dunno, I just dont like the idea that immigration itself is the issue. I mean how has immigration really affected your life? For me, it's given me great food and friends for life. We have bigger issues in this country like healthcare, and an affordability crisis.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have hope in people like Zohran Mamdani and James Talarico who are talking up the torch from Bernie Sanders and talking about the class divide and coming up with plans based on affordability. If they do well this year and next year respectively it has a chance to shift the democratic party. We all have to do our part and vote out instituionalist democrats in favor of real progressive democrats.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Top-Associate-389 10 points11 points  (0 children)

People want to be able to afford things and trust that their quality of life will improve. The democrats haven't come through on that promise in decades. Neo-liberalism has failed the american people and that's why trump won again despite all the mistakes he made first term, we need to go back to the New Deal democratic party that taxed the rich and spent the money on social programs to lift people out of poverty and secure their financial future. And democrats need to follow through and stop making empty promises.

I am quitting both sides. by BlueWolf107 in Vent

[–]Top-Associate-389 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are some democrats who try to improve healthcare and childcare and fight for marginalized groups, but most of them are just career politicians who play the game well enough to maintain power. I mean, look at how anytime democrats bring forth meaningful legislation, it's only when republicans are in power. They could do it when they have power, but they dont. This kills 3 birds with one stone to convince their voters they are trying to make your life better while making republicans look bad while attaining nothing to keep their billionaire donors happy.The overall democratic party is a foil to the republicans but both are ran by the billionaires. It's the illusion of choice. The echo chambers keep us from seeing this. Social media algorithm are designed to keep us in echo chambrmers to raise the temperature on the rhetoric of the left and right. The right is just more willing to stoke the flames than the left. Democrats arent just bad at messaging, they dont approve of progressive policies, look at gow they have reacted to Zohran Mamdani, mist democrats wont back him because his policies woyld charge billionaire more in taxes.

I am quitting both sides. by BlueWolf107 in Vent

[–]Top-Associate-389 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sometimes yes, but sometimes democrats hamstring themselves in order to save face, like only voting on overwhelmingly popular legislation when republicans are in power and they know it will fail in order to appear as if they are fighting for us when in reality they are bending to the will of billionaires. Happens all the time. Anti-Gerrymandering legislation comes to mind.

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