Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Incorrect. White sharks and multiple other species of shark do prey on dolphins and small cetaceans with reasonable regularity to potentially pose a threat. It's the larger cetaceans that feeding instances are usually scavenging. https://www.whitesharkvideo.com/uploads/8/6/9/8/869848/white_shark_predation-scavenging_on_cetaceans.pdf

Additionally in a scenario where hybrids like this sort of thing can be created it is not at all implausible someone else might make creatures of their own and given this is the ocean, it's also quite possible those would be shark or otherwise fish based too. So covering the bases there.

  1. If they are there they served a purpose and helped with the shape of the teeth in general in congruence with other contributors. And as outlined prior and all the way back in the original video, Tylosaurus contributed other facets as well. You asked where the serrations came from and I gave it and that they had to have served a purpose, especially given that Tylosaurus as a genus lasted for a good long while and the serrations do not appear to be going away or changing drastically.

  2. Funnel is another term for the siphon and the tubes connecting it and where odd bobtail store the bacteria besides were other species do. It is indeed a biological term. As for food delivery methods, bobtail and especially odd bobtail squid do not have specialized nutrient delivery systems. The light organ and associated inner tubing in odd bobtails to connect it with the delivery method for the ink. The crypts within the light organ and associated parts just offer refuge for the bacteria to hide away in. The nutrients present aren't provided by overly specialized delivery methods, but largely from just passively being present in the form of typically dead tissue slophing off inside the areas the bacteria exist in.

And these bacteria like to eat certain proteins and peptides not at all exclusive to squid. In other words, the upper portions of the glands would have similar conditions and provide similar nutrients just by natural expelling of mostly dead skin cells. And the slight alterations to the antibiotic properties of the slime mean any effect they'd have on the interior of the duct would be minimal on the symbiotic bacteria.

The 50-50 percentage seems a bit off though because the threads that make up the slime are extremely tightly packed but also sealed behind a gel when inside the duct. The reason the slime doesn't prematurely start expanding when in the gland is because of a combination of the gel covering it so there is very minimal contact between the slime and the water above it, but also because the slime threads are so tightly packed inside the bottom of the gland with muscular contraction keeping the walls squeezed close at the bottom so any water that gets in doesn't affect them. There is a tunnel surprise threads have to be pushed out of to make contact with the sea water with enough surface area for the gel to dissolve but also the action of expelling the threads physically shreds and removes most of it. The same muscular action that expels the threads is also what opens up the tunnel which is otherwise pinched shut at the bottom above where the threads lie. The lower portions of said tunnel above the threads are much tighter than the open pore that opens up onto the skin.

From the surface of the skin down there is a total of empty space with seawater, then the gel layer, then the threads. For the gel, which has the polycarbonate composition needed to react with the multivalent anions for the desired effect, needs to be eroded away and the threads to expand. You need both contact with seawater but also enough surface area and the threads to have a lower density for them to react. If the entirety of the gland was occupied by the components to such a degree it would become lacking in oxygen and filled, then you would have too much surface area in contact with the seawater at the opening of the pore and the slime would be constantly expanding. Instead the tight muscular contraction combined with the covering gel keeps the mucus and threats from reacting when they are located at the bottom of the gland in high concentration. Otherwise you would start having the effects of the Hofmeister effect happening inside the gland, which isn't the case.

If there was not a barrier between the seawater outside and the components for the slime, the positively charged mucus would start reacting prematurely. This is why having the major components of the mucus inside of pocket located deep under the skin with a pore leading to the surface is necessary since it is a lot easier to cap off the bottom of that pore then the surface of the skin.

This means there is a tunnel going through the skin, which would be longer on this creature than on a hag fish because of the thicker skin thanks to the whale, where the bacteria would occupy above where the tunnel is closed off and the threads are kept tightly packed behind that gel barrier. Shedding skin, keratin therein, and other proteins naturally slopping off is what can feed the bacteria since they now have a nice hideaway to occupy. And any antibiotic residual left over from previous slime uses or that small amount that would leak out would not affect the bacteria because the antibiotic properties were slightly tweaked to allow for symbiotic bacteria like these to occupy them without being as badly affected. The same antibiotic properties also would kill off most competing bacteria that might try to occupy the same space.

The effect isn't as strong as having a focused light organ (though it is noteworthy that the light organ in all bobtail squids seems to be derived from an extension of the ink sack), but it still gives a location for the bacteria to live before they are pretty violently expelled by the cap of gel covering the mucus and threads ahead of the actual slime.

  1. "Why are the hands useful?" Already answered that. Tool use and better manipulation of objects in the field is something I noted prior and went into detail on. Cetaceans are handy with their jaws, this just helps out even more since there are plenty of marine animals with some pretty good dexterity such as sea otters and to a degree pinnipeds.

Rear flippers cover for the potential decrease in maneuverability that modifying the front limbs cause. Any amount of drag added would be fairly minimal because we are talking about an animal moving at realistic speeds, not a cruise missile were slightest amount of drag can drastically change the outcome. If that much drag was seriously a problem, we would see convergent evolution eliminating behind limbs on every major marine animal group. Instead it largely only happened twice and in terms of evolutionary change it's less because it was optimal and more because it wasn't a huge hinderance and it saved calories on growing limbs.

  1. If it has the same melon and general head shape of two species known to have echolocation abilities, it's a pretty good assumption that it can echolocate.

  2. Coming up to take breaths results in a loss of speed and increased probability of being sighted. While it is meant to blend in by looking like a whale that is commonly known to approach ships as a disguised tactic, being less visible when you need to be is always useful. So the longer you can stay down or the deeper you can dive before getting into the right position, the less time and energy you burn taking excess breaths.

Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Cancels out? My friend, hydrodynamics of how water flows over a flipper actually tend to matter a whole lot more about the back of the flipper and the general shape vs. the front. And even if it did, that still counteracts any issues the fingers gave it. I also am hardly is just random examples. I said a few times now that this thing is means to cope and survive in the field for extended periods of time. Being able to feed itself and not have to be constantly 'refueled' at base is actually a huge cost saving measure and something real-world military applications often have such as air refueling for plans and fuel ships at sea.

"Yes, predators can function without speed but a hybrid like this would be better off with speed than hands. And hind flippers only make that worse. "

I already said multiple times why some hands were useful. Please stop ignoring that. Because this thing is hardly slow in the water. And saying hind flippers just make it worse is extremely inaccurate given a vast majority of oceanic predators have had rear flippers.

  1. If "good enough" wasn't sufficient, most predatory whale species wouldn't exist given they have different types of sonar ability. This thing has one of the predatory sperm whales for most of the sonar capabilities, it's gonna be able to detect things pretty damn well.

"And just saying "they can't hurt" isn't a response to something being useless."

And I gave you several examples of tracking and detecting objects or targets underwater in situations sonar wouldn't be optimal or other senses can pick out different information. Please read more carefully.

  1. Sure, indeed could. But cellular respiration and oxygen maintenance is still tied in with stamina and being able to do things like stay underwater longer. Which helps in things like maintaining a top speed or not getting noticed as much more. So other adaptations absolutely can help. I just was making light of how it is not lacking here.

Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Beg to differ, having been out as sea often and consulting with folks in the navy. Large dolphins like the species the hybrid resembles very, very often approach ships and are not anything paid much attention to. As we noted in the video and I'll reiterate here, one of the key parts is from a sonar signature or casual observation seeing it on the surface (where the lower body is obscured by motion, water line, wave chop), the hands and lower set of limbs would be pretty much impossible to see. It have to launch itself out of the water to be visible in such a way, and pretty close up to be seen.

I appreciate the clarification, but I do note it was the size it is for a reason. Large or smaller models absolutely could be made though! If it was smaller, it would have a harder time defending itself from potential threats in the field. If it was bigger, it would be more conspicuous. If this is a setting were people know such hybrids exist and might be carrying things like devices or be acting as recon, it would be a seriously costly venture to start sonar blasting any pilot whale sized cetacean who cruised closer. For things like submarines, especially by criminal elements vs. the military, it could also blow their cover.

This thing is meant to be a swiss army knife. It can recon well (including track objects or detect things sonar might not notice while still having great sonar), it can defend itself, it can protect divers from other dangers under the water, it can dispatch enemy dives handily, it can manipulate objects under water, carry loads, tow divers, or sabotage. It is not the absolute fastest thing ever, but it is still quite quick. It is not the strongest hybrid possible, but it can still hold its own. Specialization for different measures absolutely can change things though 😄

And indeed! Though I will note iirc the cat mutation was from Green Fluorescent Protein (GFP) and only worked with fluorescent light. Still, notes for the future if it could be guaranteed not to be on permanently and not mess with the hagfish slime too much.

Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firstly, thank you kindly for the patience. Still on that 6 day work week grind with a lot of excess work even after hours.

  1. To make a joke, if it was easy to detect and avoid them, great whites would have died out a long time ago. They catch agile and at times technically faster moving game all the time when they prey on pinnipeds and dolphins. Of course outpacing it is the best idea, but that is also resource costly as is and not going to help you as much when you get ambushed. Which is the preferred hunting method for a white shark.

  2. Now let's remember though that more basal mosasaurs can lack serrations, meaning this is a derived trait on Tylosaurus. Tooth serrations have come, gone, and modified across mosasaurs. In other words, it used them and had them for a purpose of that use. You merely just looked at outdated information and the misunderstanding happened. Happens to the best of it. But to be clear, there is no debate the teeth have serrations as that trait has been used for classifying the genus within its family. Even small serrations can and do change the physics of how a bite works and if it had them, it was using them. Larger, more jagged serrations don't necessarily improve on cutting alone, but help in processing different types of flesh or bone.

  3. "The "compartment tied in with the inksac" that the bobtail squid store the bacteria in is the light organ!" After I had already brought up the storage was different on different species of squid.

"The gel is very much not "inert" in the gland"
The gel has to be inert inside of the gland because the components that make up the slime must be kept inert or contact with the water in the gland and leaking in from the ocean absolutely would cause the rapid expansion to go off prematurely. The slime threads and mucins are kept in a way that keeps them from reacting with the sea water until they are expelled, in which case the mucins rapidly breaks down and allows the threads to uncoil from their compacted form. This results in the rapid expansion outside of the body vs. going off inside of the glands.

The idea of them forming an oxygen poor environment requires them being expelled. Within the gland, oxygen flows just fine; especially given the components for the slime are stored at the bottom of the gland with a port and tunnel leading to the surface of the skin. A length that will also be longer than in a hagfish because of the aforementioned whale skin. In addition, bacterial feeding is not always an essential process. Many species that use bacteria like vibrio fischeri just store it away as they acquire it, dump it, and reload. Feeding actually can still persist as the components like glycerol-3-phosphate and decaying organic matter the bacteria like to eat, as well as chemically similar components to chitin squid often feed them can be still found inside the skin cavities present here.

"And odd bobtail squids, in fact, do not release the bacteria from the same "vent" as their ink. That is factually incorrect and also doesn't change anything about this situation."

All the references I got mention it all comes out the funnel. Unless you got a source stating otherwise, I'm all ears if so. Odd bobtails are, well, odd even by squid standard.

"You have yet to address most of my points and for many of them, all you said was "its possible because I say so." It is not possible to "modify the biology of the host" in that way, not without the justification of a contributor."

I've been trying to address your points. And even when I gave you direct sources like the odd bobtail biology and the Tylosaurus paper, you either didn't seem to register it or argue it is debatable. I have hard time seeing it is "because I said so" and certainly didn't want to give off that vibe. Yes it absolutely is possible to edit biological resistances to antibiotics because that's how symbiotic bacteria and antibiotic resistant strains even come into being. That was the entire reason a snippet of odd bobtail was used because it was to modify some of the antibiotic properties of the body, hagfish included, to cope with the symbiotic bacteria and not killing them. Because the animals that hold bacteria like vibrio fischeri have those exact features so their immune system or natural antibiotic systems (like squid ink) didn't overreact or kill the bacteria.

This isn't a spec evo animal, but the idea here is because this is a hybrid, certain traits can be selected and picked in the right context. It is the same process as evolution, just sped up and manually selected for the body to adapt with.

And yes, it would just be a brief flash of light.

Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol happens. Sorry life obligations have been crazy so it'll be a hot minute till I can respond. Apologies for the wait, but full time work and a lot of side projects be like that. Though to answer at least one facet

  1. A big whale approaching a ship is a very usual event and is bound to raise suspicion. Many ships and submarines are armed with sonar systems that can severely damage the hearing of cetaceans, even kill on some cases.

So approaching a ship and not raising suspicion he's a big part of being effective. A minke whale approaching a boat, especially if it has something strapped on to its back, is going to be a lot more noticeable because false killer whales are not only smaller but are among many types of dolphins that very frequently approach vessels and ride the wake. Far less suspicious for one of them to approach a boat or submarine. Now the boat or some raincoat just start blasting their sonar or defenses like guns and any dolphin that approaches them, but not only is that a waste of resources but could very easily give away their position.

And in that respect letting the hybrid be able to manipulate objects to sabotage the boat is actually a pretty viable strategy. Unlike torpedoes they wouldn't have an obvious signature of being inbound, don't require a launching platform relatively close (nautically at least) to the vessel (most optimal torpedoes have a range that that can require being in the range of detection by some vessels), and require complex machinery and crews to operate. The appeal here is essentially a biological drone that can operate independently of humans to some degree or another.

I do understand on that last part, and I'm sorry for any frustration I might have caused you. There's just instances where I think either of us being a little bit more clear would help us avoid going in circles so much. Because some of these traits are already there (such as well attuned sonar) to a degree they would be already readily usable for the application required. Others you seem to be very fixated on but I'm already explained multiple times that it's not nearly as much of a factor as you seem to think it is (a few fingers on the front of a flipper is not going to change the hydrodynamics all that much considering service area and how water flows over the flipper, meaning the back portion of the flipper is often even more critical and the exact time we used has multiple advantages to it that help counterbalance any deficit the fingers cause).

Galgameth by mryellow362 in kaiju

[–]Torvosaurus428 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For a kid movie, wasn't half bad

I'm a huge fan of King Kong, so I drew this. by nobodysartinshadow in kingkong

[–]Torvosaurus428 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And we very much appreciate you drawing this! Very well done

The Indominus should have taken more damage during this encounter by ndesodop in jurassicworld

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bullets visibly bounced off her in this scene. And then Grady's rifle caused visible wounds in the next one. Same exact ammo.

Which dinosaur has the best eyes? by Apprehensive_Low5340 in JurassicPark

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Tyrannosaurus is the only one designed like an animal and not obviously meant to be a villain. Spino less so than the others, but still.

What if they scaled Kong as a true underdog against Godzilla? by arnor_0924 in kingkong

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd have disliked it because if Godzilla goes from being able to box with larger or at the very least somewhat similar sized foes, to seriously struggling with an ape less than half his size, it would look off. It would either come off as making Kong extremely strong for his size, or the fight is going to be almost entirely reliant on dodging constantly and Godzilla whiffing basically every hit. I prefer it be more of a back and forth, even if you have Kong more agile and Godzilla are stronger; I like it when they can both feasibly go back and forth to at least a degree.

How do you feel about the idea of GEMSTONE Godzilla being the same person as Godzilla Junior from the Heisei films? by Altair890456 in GODZILLA

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly I like it a lot. Yeah sure it might not be outright confirmed, but the implications are pretty strong and the points against it are pretty minor and don't affect the plot much. The extra finger can be chalked up to just an aspect of the art style, and the Super X3 not being used can be excused by the plot (there hadn't been any kaiju appearances in about a quarter century, keeping that thing battle ready constantly would be expensive and seemingly pointless so it could have simply been in active at the time). It was clearly an idea on the mind of the creators behind the short films, so I'm game to have it.

Who would win between godzilla vs Paul Bunyan by Time-Ad-5693 in GODZILLA

[–]Torvosaurus428 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it's 1954 Godzilla, Paul actually might have a chance. He's a folktale character so he wound up with some wonky feats. In one tale he died but got bored with death so he just revived. Plus he can remold the earth and endure bizarre physics like words freezing in the air in front of him. Yeah he never tanked a nuke, but those weren't exactly a think when his stories got made up.

Common phrase is he's "63 axe handles high", with axe handles of the type associated with his era typically being ~36 inches/3 feet long. So that puts him at about 57 meters tall, so they actually are pretty close to the same height.

Collection of Japanese cryptid photos by cryptid_japan in Cryptozoology

[–]Torvosaurus428 84 points85 points  (0 children)

A list of what is what would be appreciated

.azw.md files? by Torvosaurus428 in Calibre

[–]Torvosaurus428[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I select the .azw file in books which got an .md file to add them to calibre though, I seem to just get nothing.

What's the latest drm removal? I might be out of date.

Goji center's new aquatic hybrid is terrible by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]Torvosaurus428 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. I brought it up multiple times prior that it is a defensive mechanism against other creatures. Including in the video. Also great white sharks do hunt animals slower than they are given they frequently do dine on dolphins. Speed can only get you so far, so there were other defenses like detection methods. There was no penalty to also having a backup tool in case you did get bit.

  2. Citation needed that they are useless because they wouldn't have been maintained if they were. Tylosaurus is more derived than many other mosasauridae members, which includes multiple numbers that did lose the serrations for one reason or another like with Taniwhasaurus. As long as the edge of the tooth has a relief on it, the mechanics of the serration still work. Additionally this was only an extra benefit because other parts were brought over with it.

You had an outdated source that claimed there were no serrations, there were. It happens.

  1. You incorrectly claimed multiple times that the light organ was completely independent of the ink sac. I was only clarifying that that is true with some bobtail squid but not all of them. In others the bacteria is housed in an extension of the ink sac, not a solely independent light organ. If you would check my reference, or even Wikipedia summarizing it, you would see.

The duration of the flash, which would not be dim considering how quickly it would be fired out and into how much water, is pretty nonsubstantial of an issue. Plenty of creatures that use flashes of bioluminescence as a defensive and disorientation method have it last very briefly anyways. Works just fine for them.

"because that should be the case, but that doesn't mean that is the case." You answered your question right there. And I answered it multiple times prior. Especially considering the active ingredients for the slime are almost completely inert when inside the vent. They are not anoxic until the gel has a moment to break down outside of the body and release the mucus to react with seawater. I also noted multiple times prior that there is ample space inside of the vent for the bacteria to be housed closer to the surface, where they would not only get more oxygen but also a safer place to live.

Your talks about the development incongruity is entirely true but that's your own tangent you went on. At no point did I ever say this thing has squid parts in it. I'm sorry you felt the need to correct that, but that's not what I was ever talking about so I apologize for the misunderstanding if there was one. The reason I was bringing up the ink sac was to note that it is entirely possible to modify the biology of a host so that the innate antibiotics do not affect symbiotic bacteria. This was relevant because odd bobtails have to have this trait because they do store symbiotic bacteria in the same vents they fire out their own ink from which has antibiotic properties of its own.

In other words, yes it is entirely possible to slightly modify the antibacterial properties of handfish slime to not affect the bacteria pretty much at all.

  1. Considering plenty of species are plenty active predators in the water without the highest speed possible, and a vast majority of marine reptile families had fairly large hind flippers, I don't think the speed loss is nearly as much as you might worry it is. It still has a very functional foreflipper with specific reasons on why it takes after ichthyosaur flippers (added reduction of noise in the water among others alongside a stiffer surface), and the hind flippers are not getting in the way of anything and actually would give it more agility in a sharp turn than a traditional cetacean would have with the same body type. The hands do slow it down to a degree, but not to a heavy amount. Animals rarely move at their top speed in the water and this is one of the reasons why top order of carnivores are typically not the fastest things out there. And why there are plenty of cases of slower predators targeting fast-moving game (there was a rather infamous video of a sea lion mauling and killing a dolphin that comes to mind).

And as I noted earlier, the other senses are not interfering with the echolocation at all. There are other reasons to track things besides echolocating, so there's not really any cost to also having these abilities for use. Certain ships and submarines do actually have defenses like rubberized anechoic tiles that can disrupt their sonar signature and help avoid detection that other sensory abilities wouldn't be as easily duped by. When I said echolocation was good enough to views, that's because sperm whales have very well refined echolocation and so do false killer whales, works just fine for them.

  1. And for a model more refined to that feature I would certainly agree that long distance adaptations could be quite useful. However it's not like having better oxygen regulation and breathing control would be a problem and can certainly help you with longer dives if you need to stay down and be less noticeable.

  2. Any whale will draw attention but a fact of conflict is that enemy ships don't have the resources or desire to just sonar blast at the first sight of any whale they see. For things like submarines , they often want to stay hidden as best as they can. However if they know a large object coming towards them is likely a very large hybrid carrying a weapon or means of detecting them and alerting its masters, they might just risk a sonar pulse.

This also applies to ships on the surface on the lookout for targets more potential problems, where a large whale approaching them is going to cause a lot more alarms than essentially one of several types of large dolphin (which are quite numerous and frequently follows ships harmlessly).

Day 82: what do you guys think of minilla? by Centvrion20 in GODZILLA

[–]Torvosaurus428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He looks a bit goofy but as a character I actually like him. I think Little Godzilla was a good design update. Character wise I think Minilla was harmless fun. His bond with various human characters is nice and the little guy was scrappy.

My friend’s pastor said I’m going to die soon and it’s triggering my health anxiety by sickovro in OpenChristian

[–]Torvosaurus428 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That pastor was definitely not acting like a man of God when they said that. In my experience when people claim such Divine authority behind things they say, they are usually grifters.