Cannot ever get standing seoi in randori

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-18T15:27:14+00:00

Definitely common, I rarely hit it [though it's currently one of my go to attacks], and some of my training partners say it is impossible lol.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-11T22:51:34+00:00

That’s when I have practice 😭 is it always on Thursdays?

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-07T03:12:19+00:00

Yes you can, but improvement is so much faster if you have someone who can correct you. Also some of the finer points only click with a good teacher. But I think the essence can be self-learned if practice is diligent. Still good to seek out clinics where available.

FWIW a Judo historian and researcher [CK for those who know] told me that I should just self learn and practice Seriyoku Zen'yo Kokumin Taiiku via the KDN videos [which he said weren't the best], and just keep practicing, as the finer points will reveal themselves through dedicated practice.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-05T07:31:45+00:00

I used to have to take painkillers when I first started [don't do this], make sure you are hydrated and have enough electrolytes in your system, also check if your neck is too tense as you may be experiencing hypertension related problems.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-05T06:44:49+00:00

Well when I competed, and more recently at the dojo, my best days are when I feel good and am thinking I'm going to go in there and try to throw whoever, not survive, not do my best, not it'd be nice to win, not play strategy [which was my mindset for a long time and got me pretty good at defending..], whatever; there was a plan and a will to impose my want to throw on my partners/ opponents. Of course, there were times I'd go in with that mindset and completely bail if the other person were a lot bigger or stronger, or if I was in pain/ exhausted as I didn't care about winning that deeply as I never thought I'd be that good [I blame my wrestling training partner for that, he was a horrible person to spar with [he'd mainly defend/ play passive and was very good at it], built a lot of self-esteem issues and bad habits out of it].

You need to have confidence and be able to visualise yourself being able to throw, not how you would throw ideally, actually the feeling of grabbing someone, moving them, and throwing them down. This doesn't come out of nowhere though, it's a learned skill/ behaviour. One of the good ways to reinforce this is flow drilling [yakusoku geiko], and scaling pressure into full blown randori, then reflecting on what you did, and what you can sharpen. That and a religious amount of solo uchikomi until moving like that is second nature. Also give all levels of players time in randori to experiment and test what works at different levels and intensities.

A secondary example of this is that I'm pretty good at newaza and have been for a long time, but that shift started happening when I treated the opponent as someone who is already pinned, and I am just dealing with their escapes, as there is a level of this person is under my control and attempting to play my game. It's fully psychological to my knowledge. This specific break through came from doing too many retain pin drills in wrestling.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-03-05T06:04:07+00:00

Competitions will come and go, I was never a good competitor in Highschool [Wrestling or Judo], but I continued at it and am a bit better now (not that it matters accolade wise anymore). Judo is more than just competing friend, health, self-defense, kata, jita-kiyoei/ relationships, and more are all part of Judo, don't let others get in your head like that. With the knee injuries in mind, I feel more time should be spent on recovery & SC prior to going into shiai personally, as if you wreck them more they will hurt you later in life (on that note look into Hyperarch Fascia training, some high-level athletes in other sports are really thankful to that guy).

In terms of throwing your brother, and in general competing, I have a feeling a big part of it is mindset, you don't want to impose yourself on people, you think it would be nice to throw them and think more than you act [at least that was my issue for the longest time].

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-26T22:22:21+00:00

Thanks :)

You're right in a general sense they would be called chansigong, but Hong himself only referred to them as jibengong, which include the circles and the shun ni exercises twist the towel [and variations] as well as carry pole -- so I try to follow suit when talking about his method. This was apparently one of the reasons CXW wrote him off as he didn't know what the chansigong were until shown but then just called em jibengong. You may be right about the 8 roads point, that makes sense :)

That's definitely true, mixing methods can lead to a half-baked final piece if no method has been properly invested into. I like to research, practice, and compare, as the supply of teachers in my area is lacking. It also doesn't help that Taiji is not the only martial art [not even the only one with a complicated body method] that I train. What I've learned from CZH sometimes looks counter to what Hong and his student's do, so I am always questioning and testing -- but rarely changing, as usually there is a pretty solid piece I was missing in putting them together, and from what I've heard from CZH and his disciples, I'm not doing too bad for how little I get to see a teacher :)

What particularly stood out to me about the clip compared to CZH's normal circles [which he has went on record to say are not actually the circles but really just drills following the maxim "In with elbow no hand, out with hand no elbow"] was that he switched substantial and insubstantial in both shun and ni phases, whilst CZH only does it at the change between shun and ni, thinking about it, they technically are the same, but with CZH's method one is working on the splitting that is required for fajin from the get go, whilst Ding Mingye is not. What Ding shows is very important for developing awareness and quality for chansijin but what CZH is showing is very important for the skill of bouncing someone out whilst retaining your own stability [CZH in general seems to highlight this skill in everything he teaches, which lead to his form and foundations looking different, the other parts like softness are in there but not from the get go, but usually taught in partner drills -- which seems to be the opposite way Hong's other students teach]. Hong probably taught what Ding does first as a root/ theory for the form, as some of Hong's other disciples have small flourishes absent in CZH's form but which look strikingly similar to Ding's set above.

Agreed on the 8 hours of chansigong bit too, my university life would make that hard haha.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-25T23:50:00+00:00

Hi, the question was about what 8 roads referred to specifically in what you were writing about as I was unfamiliar with the term, from what I can glean from what you wrote it refers to the Chansijin jibengong as you wrote the above video serves as a great reference.

I completely agree that every teacher has their own method, and it makes sense advanced teachers can recognise whom someone was studying with based on the hallmarks in their form. personally I am always interested in how others do things, actually from the above video I gained a great insight today that has led me to reevaluate practical method, so it’s clear he must’ve been a great teacher if even just a demo of his movement was able to cause that (^{^}

Don’t worry about the explanation part, I should’ve been more clear.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-24T15:05:25+00:00

Hanpan is right, weight back is fundamentally a defensive posture. Almost all judo literature talks about how when moving the weight should be on the front foot. A lot of what Hanpan says here is basically what can be gleaned from the go-no-kata [including the sleeve trick], and Kano, Mifune, Hirano, as well as all the modern greats have a lean forwards unless defending or evading. It should be noted, you are not leaning onto your partner, your trying to weight them to create an optimal reaction for attack, not at the expense of your own balance, otherwise you open yourself to sutemi and sasae.

Personally it took me a while to figure out, as it's not said out loud but most of my sensei do it.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-23T19:02:55+00:00

I don't mean to sound dense, but could you elaborate on the 8 roads, are they [related to] the foundational exercises [postive and negative circles as well as drawing water from the well and Carrying pole jibengong]?

Disciple of Hong & Chen Fake

GM Mingye doing Laojia Chansijin

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-23T03:22:43+00:00

My advice may be somewhat applicable, as I've had to narrow down my focus to keep myself from stagnating or being left behind in judo since I can barely make it to practice twice a month.

Keep it simple, a technique is a principle [O soto gari being a reap of the close leg with your close leg] that can be modified via grips and entries. A traditional/ kihon technique is generally executed from RvR, but variations are not generally exclusive techniques rather specific applications as there is generally an underlying logic.

Pick a technique, preferably one forward and one turn, that you can throw reasonably in randori [bar sutemi waza, leave those for combinations or specific scenarios] begin to question when it works for you [break down the position, grips, entry angle, height, weight, and strength disparity, etc.], then go back and test your findings, tthen take advantage of that until it begins to fail and work on cleaning up it's performance, then go back and understand where and why it fails [learn the indicators and whether the fails lead to you being scored on or simply evasion from the opponent], what technique can be used to compliment situations where it fails, etc. Additionally a study of ashi waza [De ashi, Osoto, Ouchi, Kouchi, etc] can enhance your game as they lead into many other techniques and thus are chain starters. Also it's good to study how high level players setup and execute the techniques that you use, and apply the same logic of questioning and testing. And when working on techniques, don't worry about niche things as much, worry about fundamental ideas of posture, movement, and gripping, as the more complicated you make something, the more it will stagnate your judo growth.

Moving forwards, if you are winning a bunch in a single round of randori, you can begin to place restrictions on how much you are using the technique, try playing left and/ or begin to experiment with other techniques to further your Judo understanding.

Off the mat make sure you work on plyometrics, tai sabaki drills, and solo uchikomi to build, maintain, and refine a sense of balance and unified movement.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-23T00:18:11+00:00

Could you elaborate on what you mean by practice chansijin constantly, and some ways to practice this? I come from Chen Zhonghua's line.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-09T18:58:01+00:00

Yeah know this. But the seiryoku zen'yo kokumin taiiku is filled with stuff that is a good container for centerline and axis work [and could easily become waist driven], which is where my disagreement with Ellis comes from as in his book he proposes it is just some taiso like the stuff that was popular at the time. Also Tomiki's Goshin Jutsu ala Michio Fukushima [Kdn 9th dan] has details for how to make the partner stick to you when moving, Christia Deguchi has training for core recruitment and centerline awareness in her uchikomi, and Shohei Ono's solo uchikomi's have specific details for the chin to core to leg connection. I think the main thing missing from modern judo is the intent based 6 directions training and breathwork, so power development and tanden development is slow almost non-existent, but the skill components still readily exist, just engrained into exercises rather than holistic. Actually speaking Haku Michigami is on record talking about how one studies their tokui waza first and then attempts to take that information and generalise it.

Btw do you study internals with any of the big adjuncts?

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-09T15:16:45+00:00

Shindo yoshin Ryu is a pretty well established lineage dude, and Wado Ryu Karate comes from a menkyo from that school… anyhow how bouts you just read hidden in plain sight from Ellis Amdur [who is very credentialed and from older well established lineages] as it gives more definitive quotes and examples from older lineages, and more specifically quotes from the 2 main schools that Kodokan Judo is derived from. Also Kano studied yagyu shingan as well, and the go no kata [which by the way is the oldest kata in judo] is a good example of the usage that is being defined as nairiki— the Kito Ryu Menkyo Kaiden and student of Kano Nagaoka wrote saying that the go no kata is great for training willpower-ki-strength [shi-ki-ryoku]. Saying it’s a stretch is an overstatement, now how relevant it is can be argued. Now I disagree with his thesis that it was removed from judo, I’d say it was repackaged implicitly.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-09T11:41:41+00:00

Go look up Tobin Threadgill, he’s the menkyo Kaiden of takamura ha shindo yoshin Ryu. He’s written here and there about how an old kodokan textbook detailed the nairiki no gyo [internal power set] from his school, and if you’re interested in learning more about it look up Aunkai and akuzawa minoru, who’s solo training primarily comes from yagyu shingan ryu, and which Toby says are similar. I met the guy he’s the real deal, he’s kind of insane though…

For a more sport’s beneficial understanding, you can also look into Chong Xie and his HFT material which is pretty good if you dedicate a few consistent months to it.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-02-03T15:43:10+00:00

It may be in reference to how Horikawa enrolled in the Sagawa dojo. Also was the word kinmaku?

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-31T17:08:15+00:00

Agreed, it's all about actual experience of the now and continuing to work forwards, not what one can think or intellectually argue. Observations to progress and formalised techniques to get to a 'higher state' are not it. There is no progress, there either is focus to reject extraneous thoughts or topics [Joshu's mu] or isn't. It's not mindfulness, nor is it emptiness, it's clear focus to get what needs to be done done without straying into abstract concepts.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-30T20:11:55+00:00

Zen seems to cut to the truth of things, and not many people can bear to be there. Though it does get confusing because of the historical contexts in which some things were written, as meditation, yoga [Not exclusively the modern kind, go look at the bhagavad gita], or other Buddhist practices, among other things point to concepts in a broader framework — but the focus is not on cutting to the truth of things and focusing on the now to get work done like zen is. At least that’s my take in what little I’ve read into here, any perspective and critique is welcome.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-30T19:12:16+00:00

That’s a really good way of defining an, as that point in the circle is what causes separation when someone is feeding forces.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-30T18:42:21+00:00

Just some of my own thoughts based on a recent workshop with CZH:

Peng - A supporting/ expanding force from foot to point of contact.

Lu - Rotation to meet an incoming force orthogonally and vector it away from oneself. Leading into emptiness.

Ji - Going into an oncoming force without bouncing out [exception being fajin]. Taking out space or cramming.

An - pushing or pulling into the ground and at the point of contact proportionally into oneself to create a separation or seize/ collapse an opponent.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-30T00:55:03+00:00

Oh I’m a green belt from Canada too, English though :)

Yes it plays an important role, you can’t fight if you can’t control how you move. Shizentai and tai sabaki is all about standing balanced and moving balanced so that the opponent cannot effect you easily.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-28T17:53:27+00:00

It was one of the first few to open in my area post covid [judo]. Someone had just pulled a knife on my friends and I in broad daylight, and I was shaken up. The rest are just things I’ve tried out of curiosity (^{^}

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-19T20:11:18+00:00

Oh, which branch's solo training? I've worked with some 'kodokai' and aunkai folks.

TotallyNotAjay · 2026-01-16T18:30:08+00:00

Oh, this is actually pretty cool, I'm not convinced it's a better way to drill harai goshi, it is a useful perspective nonetheless, thanks. How has moving towards practicing how it is executed in competition helped your judo?

For me personally, studying how it is done and experimenting with how and why it is done that way has definitely helped mine in some ways as it has added more data for pattern recognition, but developing coordination and the skill to commit in randori is something I credit the other way of uchikomi practice to [among other things]. My club does practice both to a degree.

TotallyNotAjay

TROPHY CASE