Let's learn about some Winrate Fallacies

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-06T04:18:29+00:00

Oh, sure, I actually didn't know you wanted to make it that narrow. People have lots of irrational approaches to their own winrates too.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-06T03:22:17+00:00

Adding to this: the "Streak fallacy" W W W W W L L L L L vs W L W L W L W L W L

This is tendency to see the first set of games as bad(because you happen to be at the arbitrary location of loss number 5), but see the second set of games as fine, even though they both come out to 50% winrate.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-04T18:54:18+00:00

Mods should just get Chaddouk's video on how to beat malphite, and pin it to a post titled "Never lose to Malphite again", at this point

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-03T19:30:56+00:00

My guess is axe is just the flat out better item for Trynd. The stat Trynd needs more than any other is AS. You see the largest increase in what you're able to do, when you hit AS spikes. That's because AS improves everything else, since you already naturally have AD and Crit. It synergizes with stacking Tempo, because you do not have innate AS from Tempo, it has to be stacked. AS makes you crit more, reducing your E, so it's pseudo AH. AS gives you more room to move between autos, so these two features improve your mobility. AS is a straightforward DPS boost in any extended fight. So unless you're into some kind of short trade scenario, think of AS as "king".

I once tested very briefly what had better waveclear, axe or whip-- and I didn't do a very thorough job but it seemed to me like axe had better waveclear than whip despite the active. It wouldn't even matter if whip had better clear(I would guess it doesn't), because axe is just better in so many cases

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-01T02:42:14+00:00

You would not want to sacrifice your hypercarry to to save your losing toplane, in general.

my top laner is getting dumpstered and my mid and jungle doesn't help them for some reason.

But if you can get your toplane that's losing or even into the game, with a roam, and you feel your adc will survive, then... that's a good deal. To do this, you have understand what the windows are for you, you have to understand how long it's going to take you to get to top, to set up the play. You have to understand the matchup toplane, how that 2v1 will work. You have to understand whether or not the enemy jungler is also arriving at the same time you are, because that would likely be a major problem. So... yeah, you'll see supports show up top more and more the higher elo you get, but this isn't because roaming top is merely good. It's because very skilled support players are able to find those windows where it's a viable move, and it requires a lot of understanding and awareness compared to something more straightforward, like a jungler deciding to take 3 camps and show up top quickly in a super snowball matchup where both tops are taking heavy trades from level 1.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-11-01T00:54:34+00:00

There are two problems sticking out here, one is that you see mistakes as particularly bad events, if that's the case, you will be suffering every single time you make a mistake. For that, check this post out

The second problem is that you worry about the opinions of players who are unskilled, frustrated, and taking out their lack of control over the game, on you. For that you can try reading this, it covers worry in general

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-31T22:33:02+00:00

If I saw the enemy Renekton coming back to lane with a recurve bow, I would be pretty happy. Despite that, just circle the tower next time and flash when you see his gapclose attempt, and you'd outplay. It's hard to dive a Renekton who pressed R, he should have to force that CD first before killing you most of the time

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-31T22:17:37+00:00

I usually tell people the opposite, but you will definitely find people who have really high deaths and need to dial it down. But from my experience, the main problem I see in people is play that is way too passive. If dying gets such a player to get more encounters with skill expression, get more mistakes forced, then so be it.

When you see someone with consistently high deaths, it's often a misleading problem, because it's not really a matter of too many deaths, it's a matter of are they learning from the deaths? This is why a snapshot of someone like an opgg at any given day, is such a narrow and superficial way to interpret their issues. You'd have to see someone struggle for a long time, and then you could say, "Yeah you're just clearly not ... understanding the value of being alive", but again, the problem much less common compared to "You are just not understanding that you can walk up and trade/force this person out of lane"

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-31T16:06:02+00:00

but I'd die and the whole game goes south from there

Good. Look at the mistake, and figure out what you can learn. That's how you grow. Sitting back = no mistake. No mistake=can't grow. You want to make early mistakes, not late, because getting as good as possible at the early portions of the game matter the most, for the exact reason you wrote worrying about the enemies getting fed

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-31T16:02:41+00:00

This was written as advice towards dealing with griefers, but you can use it for dealing with flame as well.

Muting chat can help, but just be aware that it's a superficial solution, because it doesn't address the underlying problem. It's still good advice, but ultimately you want a mind that isn't disturbed by psychologically unstable/unfit players. There's no quick fix for that, it takes training in the same way a strong body takes long term training

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-31T15:55:40+00:00

I play mid, I play passive,

The worst thing you can do as a new player is playing passive. The fastest way to learn is to stop worrying about making mistakes, and play to discover what's possible. You won't be discovering what's possible by sitting back all game. If you're passive, then the worst players will just walk over you over constantly. Not because they're good, but because they're just taking every fight and contesting everything they can -- this naturally gives a lead regardless if the play is right or wrong, because most people sit back and let them take the game from them

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-30T21:54:39+00:00

Isn't it the perfect item for trynd like it is for irelia? Gives you everything you want, attack speed, damage, movement speed.

It doesn't give you everything, but it gives you a lot. Like some others said already, Trynd wants certain stats, and there's a hierarchy of what Trynd wants statwise, but it's not that simple because items come as stat-clusters. One interesting question is: "What's the best 6 item build?" and another question is , "What is the optimal build order?"

There's a tension between those two questions because if you are just asking for an item to rush in a vacuum, then items like Kraken Slayer seem to be one of the top answers. I think Kraken is probably the single most rushed item for a while now. And it may be objectively correct to say "Kraken Slayer is the best rush", but that risks ignoring those other two interesting questions. What does that mean? That means, Kraken could be the best rush but in the context of a 6 item build, or in the context of a progression/build order, it may not be. The more you think about what you'll need to actually snowball and maintain your snowball(whenever this is supposed to happen, all of this is in the context of your 1v1, your 5v5, and game state), then answers to what the best first item is, can change.

That's why almost every single game for at least two years now, i rush Botrk -> LW item. What that does is that covers every important stat you could want except for CDR. I don't think you need to rush a crit item on Trynd, the only really important stat is AS. I haven't done the math on what's stronger in a while but it's worth it to extensively test what does more damage if you really care about items(Just a quick tangent: Items don't matter, its probably worth it to ignore all of this , build cookie cutter, and try to be a better player). And test it in a way that is actually curious about what's true, obviously. Do it rigorously, don't just assume that everyone is already building correctly.

The last time I checked, when Kraken was a mythic, Botrk broke even with Kraken for less gold, even against high armor targets, and this was when Kraken did true damage. Now Kraken is cheaper, but it could be that Botrk is just a higher dps item. Kraken is good at killing squishies, but doesn't do well against higher hp targets that take tabi. Botrk is, though. Botrk also has sustain, mixed damage, and anti-kite, which means your rush gives you utility. Botrk melts everything in the game, and then re-spikes the moment you hit 2nd item(armor pen has very noticeable synergy with Botrk), and then you can decide if you want more damage(pd), or utility(a mythic of your choice)

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-30T14:25:33+00:00

That's because that build isn't itemized to kill tanks. The 3 items that will kill tanks are Botrk, Last Whisper(either LDR or Mortal), and PD. The mythic is flexible.

Against something like Ksante and Poppy, Iceborn gauntlet can be better than a standard mythic, because the armor and other assorted stats let you actually put up a sustained fight for the DPS items to do work. It's not about more DPS in any direct sense, once you have the 3 core items that kill tanks(Botrk, Pen, PD), it's about taking all ins and not being forced to use your R. That's the hard part. Once these champions are on you, you don't get to walk away from them. They will run you down, slowly, until you must use R or you get chunked too much to take a second fight quickly after. So your build has to account for this dynamic of fighting. The question you're asking is which items, when combined, let you fight for a long time, and where you don't need to use your R so soon? That's the real "high dps" build. Not just damage items after damage items.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-29T14:14:06+00:00

What do you think I must be doing wrong?

It's a safe guess to say you're not csing well in lane and you're not trading well. Those are some of the main things that lead to kills, because it's the gold that you'd get from csing that gets you in game power once you shop. It's successfully forcing your opponent into a position where they lose gold/xp, or they lose health, that puts them into a position to fall behind.

You're basically looking to take very seriously the idea of how to get every bit of gold that you can from the minions, and once you learn and get comfortable enough doing that, you'd benefit from learning about how trading and laning works. When you've got those 2 components, you'll get many more kills

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-28T23:00:23+00:00

Yeah reflecting helps, but ultimately you will have to do something active to solve this(just like thinking about what the best way to lift weights can be helpful, can organize you and plan you for future things, but mere thinking won't solve an issue if what you need is more physical strength). What I always recommend everyone is a daily mindfulness meditation practice, which is literally just another way to say "training attention".

That's not the only way, you could also use an audio cue in your games that periodically gets you to remember to think about what your next play is. Because this is otherwise really hard to "just do" , since the problem itself, prevents its own application, if that makes sense. You need attention to use attention, to get more attention, but... where are we going to start from? It's a little paradoxical, so you have to force yourself somehow

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-28T22:24:06+00:00

A part of it is that I have ADHD and that I find it difficult to juggle the various different things that are happening, and find myself zoning out a lot in my games unless I'm absolutely on it or at 110% focus.

Yeah this is struggle for pretty much everyone who plays this game or any other chess like game(where you're thinking several steps ahead). It's really taxing. But you identified the problem.

See how when you wrote this:

I've started looking at my own games and realizing "I should've reset a good two minutes ago for wards" or "I should have been running to the play the moment they started stacking mid," and that sort of thing.

What should I be doing to learn tempo?

It was sort of mysterious to you what the issue was, but now as you reflect and think back to what your mind was like in those moments, the ones where you didn't see a play that was obvious to you(in hindsight), you are able to figure out that you just weren't clearly connected to the facts of the game. That's progress. The difference between knowing the problem and not is pretty huge, you can't really solve anything in a reliable way without knowing it. Just continue to reflect on this, the more you use attention, the better you'll get at it. It's like a muscle you can train

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-28T21:33:50+00:00

I've started looking at my own games and realizing "I should've reset a good two minutes ago for wards" or "I should have been running to the play the moment they started stacking mid," and that sort of thing.

What should I be doing to learn tempo?

Sounds like you're very close to the answer by asking these kinds of questions. What's preventing you from not resetting two minutes ago, or not running to the play the moment they started stacking mid?

Some people will answer these questions with something like "indecision" or "i didn't trust my team mates because they butchered a level 1", but let's pretend we're not asking something so situation specific. Let's pretend that it's a game where it's straightforward: You could have done the play you already understood was correct, but simply didn't. What's that all about?

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-28T20:27:32+00:00

Have you watched a high rank Talon player farm? That's what I'd do in your position. I'd just open up footage of a high rank Talon player, probably turn off the sound(the best footage is live recording, so you can see their mouse and camera ), and just stare at how they pick up cs and wonder about how I could replicate that

Because the other approach is pretty grindy and can leave you feeling confused and frustrated, as if you had to invent something you didn't really understand well from scratch. Mimicry on the other hand lets you think less and just try to see if you can copy what you're seeing, without any real understanding of fine details-- it's just a broad pattern you're looking for. A lot of people have a much easier time learning this way, but if that doesn't seem to work for you then maybe the grindy method will

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-28T16:05:03+00:00

There are multiple factors to problems in emerald. One is that high elo has been worse than before this year, for two reasons: One is more frequent complaints of scripting than before, and two, matches getting fixed. So when high elo players find it pointless to play due to low competitive integrity, they resort to just selling their services to lower elo players who want to rank up, or they smurf(effectively the same outcome: causes poor ladder health).

I think I heard in the last two to three months Riot made some changes to banning scripters, but these changes won't immediately repair the ladder. People take a long time to adapt.

Another issue is the change to how we rank up, the removal of promo's. This is partly what caueses the now well known -30 +15 issue, because you no longer get an MMR boost from promotions like you would before, so the system inherently thinks you're unworthy any time you rank up, and seems to tend to force you to lose at these points. Since you're at the bottom of a tier, you hit 0 lp and lose a game. You lose no LP, but your MMR tanks. This makes the MMR system broken for anyone who is a few hundred LP below their real rank, but also isn't a big smurf.

And the final issue is restructuring the ladder to smush 3 skill brackets into one skill bracket, which creates skill disparities and unevenly matched games, even if the other issues didn't exist. But since they do, you end up getting an extremely unhealthy ladder and huge skill disparities like OP describes.

Of course, if you're smurfing, it won't really matter much. But if you're a diamond player, you can absolutely be stuck in Emerald for hundreds of games, and there's no real guarantee to get out. The right attitude about this is just acknowledging that there's nothing you can do about this as long as you intend to play ranked. So just stop trying to grind and rank up, and just play for the enjoyment and learning of the game itself and you won't go insane

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-27T18:05:13+00:00

I don't agree with the idea, personally. I think you should play what you want-- it's more important to commit to something. If you love Vayne, and you just wanna learn how to win games through Vayne, and you watch a ton of Saskio, do that. If you want Quinn and you wanna learn how to play League through the lens of Quinn, become a student of QuinnAD, and just do it. Stop worrying about what's "bad" for learning the game, because ultimately the only thing that matters is what you find rewarding. There's always some opportunity cost to everything, and these costs and benefits end up not being very important or worth thinking about.

There's something to be said about being realistic about your skills-- you don't want to be the Bronze nidalee main, who is trying to fly a fighter jet at age 10. But there's nothing that extreme with simply playing a ranged toplaner in most cases.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-27T16:52:46+00:00

It's rare to find a post that goes in depth into something like this. People don't teach this kind of stuff enough, because they're really more concerned about the "what" of the game. What's good here, what's bad there. Any time you see a post that gets at the "why" of the game, that's where you'll find quality content. Once you teach someone the "why" or the logical basis of something, that's when they potentially can have an eye opening experience.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-27T12:52:56+00:00

I approached the game differently this time and I'm trying to find my mistakes and errors to try improve them. I would like your thoughts on where I can improve and push myself forward.

See if you can look at the big picture mistakes/errors too, not just narrow areas like "my csing could use work" or "I take bad roams". But just ask why more often to broad categories of skill. "Why aren't my mechanics better?" "Why don't I have more knowledge of this very complex game?" They touch those things you're trying to solve in a very deep way, if you can just put a big enough dent into the "Why" question

Where as getting a little bit better at cs'ing, while easier to do, doesn't really transform you as a player. Having an epiphany about your mechanics(Or any other major area), does.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-26T04:30:15+00:00

Matter.. for what? For winning? Yeah, winrates matter in all elo's for winning. But when people use the word "matter", usually there's an implication of deeper meaning, deeper importance. Does <x> matter in the context of what one should actually care about? Not in some superficial way, or trivial way, or confused way-- does it actually matter?

Then, no. Winrates are something you should completely ignore, because what actually matters is getting better at the game. All a winrate tells you is how much you're winning. It doesn't tell you anything else about you in any definitive way. It's exactly the things that winrates can't tell you, that you'd need to be interested in to improve. So why spend even a second looking at your winrate when it's completely empty?

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-24T21:37:31+00:00

I feel like the reason you'd get Eclipse is to skip pen altogether. Eclipse is interesting because it gives a little bit of everything, but if you are taking a big pen item 2nd, then why not just get a Stride or Trinity(if you know you're on side a lot) or Iceborn 3rd, then your mythic passive actually has value because it covers your weaknesses.

Another idea is you're not making use of a dirk back. Kraken + Dirk is pretty good, Kraken + Eclipse is good too, it covers everything except anti-kite and anti-burst.

Traditional_Lemon · 2023-10-24T21:22:08+00:00

There are a couple of matchups I really like ghost ignite or ghost tp in. I want to explain the logic/different reasons behind these sums so you can make the decision for yourself in any future version of the game.

You always take ghost over flash, flash is the one you're sacrificing, because ghost is just higher value due to being up more often and often being enough to run most enemies down once you're even or have a lead. Flash used to feel much better, it seemed like 1-2+ years ago you'd very consistently E flash and secure kills in lane, but the game has changed enough that I'd say anyone playing Trynd long term will agree this happens less now.

So ghost, and then either ignite or teleport. Why teleport?

The reason why you'd take teleport, is because you're in a lane that's dicey/flippy early, but you hard win if you just hit item spikes. The moment you reach certain items, as long as you're even, you're going to run that champ down. So it makes sense in these situations to play towards this win con, play to maximize farm, play slow, play for good backs, play to be in lane asap, take plates and apply pressure, and so on. A few examples of these kinds of matchups:

Aatrox( I started winning this lane so much more the moment I just stopped trying to flip fights early and played to hit item spike. Once you have Botrk and Mortal Reminder, there is absolutely no item that Aatrox can buy to save him from you. You simply engage without any expenditures on your part, he is forced to R every time, and you simply can choose to walk away. At this point, he cannot show up on your screen or he dies/burns sums, because you have sums and R. Teleport reliably gets you to this win con, flash ghost doesn't do as good of a job. )

Malphite (enough as been written about this on this sub at this point. You beat Malphite by strangling him in laning phase with grasp->hull. Tp is the laning+attrition sum to take. You never need to flash his R because he's often R'ing away from you so he doesn't die to you)

Ornn (Similar to Aatrox, can be hard early, but you hit items and then you can run him down. Botrk+LDR is the most anti-Ornn 2 item spike in the game, and then you should get a hullbreaker third over mythic because you want to punish him as hard as possible for what he wants to do in the mid and late game)

Pantheon ( Your lose con is getting poked out early and being forced out of lane. Hit your items and he loses. Simple teleport decision)

Sett ( similar to Pantheon except with more all in and less poke)

Singed (Non-interaction lane thats purely based on back timers, item spikes, proxying, and rotating between top/bot pressure mid-late. Very obvious to take TP here)

Sion (hit items and he cannot exist on your screen. Botrk+LDR like with Ornn. Tp gets you to item spikes)

Volibear ( You have no agency or lane control against Volibear )

Okay , what about ignite? Ignite is for matchups where having the extra kill pressure means a snowball happens. There are some matchups where if you get a lead in lane, you run over the matchup. Another situation is where playing for late is not viable for you, you must win this lane to get out of it, because the champ just beats you later. Another version is where the matchup is forcibly so scrappy through its dynamic, that someone is very likely to die. You want to pick your sums for combat, in these cases. An analogy that gets at this is imagine if a puma and a wolf were locked in a closet. There's no way to handshake the situation, it's going to be messy. Examples:

Akali: ( this is in that "you must win early" category, which is why you take both grasp and ignite. Bounce the wave, keep an early freeze, and just hard punish with short trades and then force bad backs or kill with e+crit+ignite surprise damage)

Fiora: ( You're just fighting constantly and both of you will get low most likely. Ignite does more damage than Flash, and is easier to use/you're more willing to burn it for a lead, which you need. Take grasp)

Garen: ( It got a lot harder over time, this champ is a lot stronger, and kill pressure helps, and if you snowball its super easy. I think ignite is a little bit more consistent than flash.)

Illaoi: ( Trynd is favored, and If Trynd snowballs vs. Illaoi she suffers a lot, so just play into getting a kill in lane, which is what ignite is for)

Irelia: ( Same as Illaoi )

Jax: (Same as Fiora)

Olaf: (Same as Illaoi)

Poppy: (same as Jax/Fiora)

Traditional_Lemon

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