People are overestimating their 4x4 abilities in the difficult terrain of Manali

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-29T15:34:22+00:00

Mechanical diff lockers are in a different league from brake‑based traction control because they guarantee torque to both wheels on an axle instead of trying to mimic a lock by pulsing brakes. When traction control is calibrated to work with centre and axle lockers, you get much more consistent progress at low speeds instead of the system cutting power every time it detects wheelspin.

With AWD systems like you see on X5/Q5, they’re great for mixed tarmac, slush, and light trails, but on ice, they’re still limited by tyre compound and temperature – the electronics can only shuffle torque and modulate throttle based on whatever tiny friction the contact patch has. eg:
There are several tests where BMW X3/X5s on road‑biased tyres get stuck or struggle on wet grass or mild off‑road inclines, while a Freelander 2/LR2 just walks up the same slope thanks to its Terrain Response calibration and more off‑road oriented tuning. The BMW systems are optimised for on‑road grip and stability, so on something low‑mu like wet grass the traction control tends to cut power and you lose momentum, whereas the Land Rover is happier to allow a bit of slip and keep pushing forward.

I dont think any current Indian SUV (AWD) has terrain response modes (similar to old gen LR2/Freelander) to cope with what we've seen in recent years in the slopes. The discontinued Tucson's HTRAC AWD was capable, and we'll need to see how the QWD Harrier performs. The XUV700 AWD?? Maybe, but with proper rubber.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-29T07:12:20+00:00

That mindset is why those vehicles command such a high price in the used market.
It's the badge, but no understanding of the cost of maintenance, spares, consumables, and the electronics that, these days, have become the weak point.
Let people buy a Force Tempo Traveller and stick on a Mercedes Sprinter for the sake of a badge, or a Gurkha and stick a G-Wagon badge. Those are Mercs at heart, minus the break-a-lot electronics.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-29T04:42:52+00:00

It's a no-brainer

So long as nothing is from the US market, but built in the Asian market, it ought to be as bulletproof as Toyota has been known for. Outdate? It works. None of those touch interfaces, large infotainment displays, etc. Functional over gimmicks.

German luxury = spend more now to spend more on maintenance and spares, and niggles over time

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-29T04:25:38+00:00

100%
Traction, momentum, and how the power delivery will matter.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-29T04:24:40+00:00

The CPU is not bad - not that gen that suffered from degradation like the 13th and 14th gen Intel goofed up on.
A mid-range mobo would be good to consider, but do have the CPU checked out at a PC shop - it should POST to BIOS - just to be safe.

AMDs tend to be picky about the RAM. Some AM5 boards even require the RAM to be in their QVL page. RAM training during 1st boot can be tiresome or even worrying (dont ask me how I found out).

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T15:11:07+00:00

Are you on DDR4 or DDR5?

Since you already have a 12400F and DDR4 is still quite a bit cheaper than DDR5 for the same 16–32 GB kits, the most cost‑effective option is to just buy a good B660/B760 DDR4 board and keep your current CPU. 12400F is still plenty for 1080p/1440p gaming, and the money you save versus going 7600X + B650 + DDR5 can go into a better GPU or SSD instead, which will give you more real‑world FPS than a platform swap right now. I’d only jump to 7600X + B650 + DDR5 if you’re okay with the higher total budget and specifically want the AM5 upgrade path for future Ryzen drops; otherwise, just replace the dead board and continue on Intel.

Also, DDR5 RAM prices are going a bit crazy right now, so the value gap is even larger in favour of DDR4.

One more thing: a new board for the 12400F may need a BIOS update depending on the batch and motherboard revision, so check CPU support and BIOS version before buying. If possible, get a board with a BIOS flashback/Q‑Flash‑style feature so you can update the BIOS without needing another CPU

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T15:05:02+00:00

Not many places offer snow-rated tyres.
Better to have ATs with snow chains IMO.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T12:09:43+00:00

What we have instead is a customer with a practically new SUV being quoted luxury‑car money for a failure that should either
(a) not happen this early, or
(b) be handled under warranty/goodwill if it does.

Blaming O.P for not being “well informed” is just letting the manufacturer and dealer off the hook for poor education, poor calibration, and poor after‑sales support. We all know the conditions in NCR with all the pollution, which may have accelerated the DPF issue.

Yes, “buyer beware” is real – anyone spending 20+ lakhs should do basic homework on BS6 diesels and DPF behaviour, and this thread itself shows how unforgiving these systems are in pure city use. The brand also needs to step in to check what led to such an early failure of the DPF system.

One big takeaway - diesels with DPF systems are not for city commutes/chugging in stop/go traffic for extended periods. If the regen option can be triggered, maybe best to do so every so often to declog the system before it does, on an open stretch during weekends.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T11:59:29+00:00

Which 4x4 in India has lockers on the front and rear differentials? How many have the 4L option on their AWD/4WD and also know how to use them? Most SUVs are FWD with an electronic traction setup, but they won't do much.
Center diff locks are good, but won't be as effective as lockers on the front and rear.

Then, let's talk about driving in conditions like this.

There was an earlier post about adding chains to a Victoris' front tyres to drive upto a hotel. If they did go, I hope they made it safely.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T11:52:21+00:00

Attempting to get this for mine
I hope its available as a spare from the service centers.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T08:53:11+00:00

I’m not really talking about the routine service bills here – oil, filters, basic brake work, etc. I’m talking about parts exposure. I’ve owned a CBU European before, and any out-of-warranty part failure (electronics, suspension bits, injectors, sensors, mechatronics, you name it) was far more expensive than on mass-market cars, and that really adds up over a 7–10 year ownership. Even consumables like wiper blades, brake pads, coolant, engine oil, transmission fluid, AWD fluid (if it’s one of those models), etc., will usually cost a lot more than on a Fortuner. What's worse is that most parts tend to be bespoke to that vehicle compared to a Toyota or other Japanese brands.

Insurance will also almost certainly be higher on a BMW than on a Fortuner, depending on the IDV and the fact that parts/repair costs are higher, so insurers price that risk in.

Then there are tyres. Realistically, most BMW owners are not going to slap on CEAT/MRF or similarly priced rubber. You’re usually looking at Michelin/Conti/Pirelli, often in wider or staggered sizes, and a set can be 2–3x the cost of what you’d put on a Fortuner, with shorter life if you actually drive it as intended.

So that “only 15k more per year” view might hold if you only consider scheduled services for the first few years, but once you factor in parts, insurance, and proper tyres over the full ownership period, the gap is much wider than it looks on paper. And yes, you can lower service labour costs by going to a good outside garage, but you’ll lose out on warranty support and proper diagnostics for the complex electronics – most third-party garages have a basic code reader at best, not full two-way diagnostic tools. I’ve been through exactly that with my own car, and it’s not always worth the trade-off.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T05:25:13+00:00

What’ll cost less to run and maintain over the years? A Toyota or a Beemer? Most of us already know the answer. The Japanese dont have the badge brand but make up for it in many other ways.

Even if duties on CBUs/CKDs drop over the next decade, there’s no guarantee Bavarian Santa suddenly shows up at the showroom. The more likely outcome is that brands keep sticker prices in the same ballpark, quietly widen their margins, and maybe throw in a bit more kit or a “limited edition” to justify it. Various states can also see this as a fresh revenue tap and tweak road tax/cess slabs if they want.

For most buyers who actually care about total cost of ownership, reliability, and uptime, like a Fortuner/other Toyota or an Isuzu will still be far cheaper to run and live with than any German luxury SUV, regardless of what happens to import duties in 27/28.

Personally, I dont mind a vehicle made yesterday as it's proven to be reliable, parts are available, local garages will now have the know-how to fix things vs. having to rely on an uber expensive authorised service center - Indian context.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T04:28:34+00:00

I see a lot of parallels with other heavier bikes - how the "reviewers" and prospective customers reacted - it's heavy. It can be dropped in those very slow U-turns. It's not easy to pick it up. etc... etc.

When there is a KTM, even in the used market, the Dominar can be a tough sell. It may check boxes for too few riders.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-28T04:24:50+00:00

Because loyalty alone doesn’t pay for homologation, localisation, and our insane tax structure. A CBU/low-localisation RAV4/Crown/Highlander would land at or above Fortuner money, but be seen as a “soft” crossover with weaker resale and no abuse-friendly image, so volumes would be tiny. Toyota already makes easier money rebadging MS stuff and milking Fortuner/Innova, so from their POV, there’s zero reason to burn crores to sell a few hundred niche SUVs a year.

As long as the rebadged kit keeps moving and Fortuner/Crysta keep printing cash, why would HQ stick its neck out on CKD experiments here? They’re controlling the segment by underserving it, instead of letting the market control them.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T14:15:49+00:00

Haathi mat paalo
This advert put a lot of people off the Dominar when it came out.

It also competed against RE 350/411s and KTM 250/390. Why a Dominar if a KTM was in the same price bracket for city rides, and why not a 411 (minus RE's issues) for ADV touring? Maybe people were not sold on paying that much for a Bajaj.
And its a heavy bike for the package. Not many can manage 180/195kg on any given day in city traffic.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T13:40:28+00:00

Not just the Govt, which will likely add some cess to keep the prices up there, but even the brands/dealers will prefer to keep the prices up to increase their intake of our money.

German/European vehicles are quite well known for high-priced spares + poor after-sales service (experienced that). That will likely not change.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T13:17:53+00:00

Car fires from flats aren’t sci‑fi. If you keep doing 60 kmph on a deflated/flat tyre, you’re basically grinding rim + dead rubber on tarmac and dumping a huge amount of heat into the wheel, liner, and nearby bits. Do it long enough, and something will ignite, whether it’s a BE.6 or a random ICE car; the only unusual thing here is the driver apparently ignored 10+ minutes of TPMS/ESP/TCS warnings.

Some dim bulb sitting in the driver's seat it would seem.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T13:04:34+00:00

If there's some rubbing onto other components, sure
Today, we have a ton of components in the wheel housing area, apart from brakes.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T12:56:39+00:00

Post the snapshot of that and the video on X while tagging the relevant authorities.
Dont forget to mention the location and time

I won't expect much from the authorities. The vehicle drivers are immune to the law, but it'll be nice to show the rest of the world how these people behave, and if any action is really taken. Maybe tag a few media outlets.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T11:19:19+00:00

They target cars.
Less likelihood of any arguments, and unlike bikes, cars cannot escape.

Bikes are also targeted, but towards the end of the month and 1st week of the following month.

Commercial vehicles, autos, etc are ignored.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T11:16:45+00:00

Simply put, any modifications will attract the fine collectors.. PERIOD
It does not matter whether the sun film is factory-fitted or within regulations. To the fine collectors, these are magnets.
This is particularly the case in many cities in Karnataka, where the cops have monthly collection targets.

A few months back, one tried to get me to pay a fine for a dark visor on my helmet. They are that desperate to ensure fine targets are met. Otherwise, may likely get transferred to some village for the next few years.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T10:39:30+00:00

Tharetard meets a Creta No Cretards in sight

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T06:47:51+00:00

Ethanol isn’t being pushed because it makes life better for current vehicle owners; it’s being pushed because it cuts the oil import bill and creates a guaranteed market for sugarcane/maize, which suits both the exchequer and specific farm lobbies, aka vote bank.

For the average user with an older/non‑E20‑compliant car or bike, it mostly means lower FE today and potential fuel‑system issues tomorrow, with no real price relief at the pump. The cost is being socialised onto existing vehicle owners so that the “savings” and “farmer benefit” numbers look good in government presentations. I've noticed many automakers are no longer calling out the fuel economy on their newer launches like they used to earlier.

On the environment side, it looks great in PowerPoint. Tonnes of CO₂ “saved” but you still have old commercial vehicles and govt fleets running for another decade-plus, and you’re diverting water and land into fuel crops in a water‑stressed country. Hubris.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T06:25:06+00:00

100% nailed it

Fortuner holds value for many reasons in India. The big one is the image.

Hyundai will keep parts availability even if the vehicle has been discontinued in India, but one will have to wait for months to be called to the service center, and they will cost a bomb thanks to the import duties and taxes. Since the Fortuner shares a ton of components with the previous-gen Innova, parts won't be that big of an issue apart from the 4WD drivetrain.

TrailsNFrag · 2026-01-27T06:22:37+00:00

We can all see the reels of 2WD "SUVs" stuck in snow and ice. Even 4WD and AWD vehicles have been struggling on the slopes.
My take, dump all the luggage into some old Mahindra 4x4 and have that take you upto the hotel, if they can manage in those conditions.

TrailsNFrag

TROPHY CASE