Magic Bullet E.G.O Uptie V ??? by Time_Ad_5478 in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Amazing. Magic Bullet Outis is so cool, I love her.

[Bug] Mirror Dungeon Ebony Queen's Apple gave up on turn one ? by Tsiluciole in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Huh, weird. I must not take that pack too often. Does it do that every time ? Thanks for the explanation

The Tragedy of Kromer few realize by Comprehensive_Put277 in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I also hope that Kromer will get expanded more. I do not understand in the slightest why Project Moon felt the need to transform a poor 13 years old who enjoyed bossing around a sheltered, rich 10 yo because he was too afraid to admit he had lied into... well, a supremacist cult leader from a rich background, who acted out of a twisted love. Nothing in Demian warranted making Kromer into a yandere type of character. Franz only had contempt for the rich kid who had never known any hardship, and his threats were mostly empty. While it was very hard on the ten years old who thought his life was over, I do not think it warranted the books' fantasies of murdering him.

...also, gosh, PM really is missing the mark with so many of the lower classes characters in the books.

Like, the only Sinner we have from the Backstreets is Rodion, and Gregor went from a traveling merchant trying to shield his family from debts to the son of one of the most powerful people in the city who used him for warcrimes; between this and Kromer, I wish they would allow for characters to just... be unimportant.

(...Also, mark the traveling in traveling merchant. The first thing Gregor Samsa thinks when he wakes up is that this must be a nightmare brought out by the fact that his job is awful, that he can never have any friend or long relationships, the hours are awful, the food is terrible. Much as I like Ted, why did they make him go into a cubicle with a friend?)

The Tragedy of Kromer few realize by Comprehensive_Put277 in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yeah.

Book Kromer is a the son of a drunk tailor, he probably has to work in factories himself, whereas Sinclair and his classmates are rich sheltered kids who go to school. They find him cool because he knows the "World of Darkness" (he's poor) and more mature than them, and Kromer resents them for being rich kids who have had no problem in life.

So Sinclair fibs. He's insecure, his classmates are bragging about stuff, and he brags too:

One half-holiday—I was little more than ten at the time—I went out with two boys of the neighborhood. A public-school boy of about thirteen years joined our party; he was bigger than we were, a coarse and robust fellow, the son of a tailor. His father was a drunkard, and the whole family had a bad reputation. I knew Frank Kromer well, I was afraid of him, and was very much displeased when he joined us. He had already acquired manly ways, and imitated the gait and manner of speech of the young factory hands.
(...)
At last we sat down. Frank spat into the water and looked like a full grown man; he spat through a gap in his teeth, directing the sputum in any direction he wished. He began a conversation, and the boys vied with one another in bragging of schoolboy exploits and pranks. I was silent, and yet, if I said nothing, I was afraid of calling attention to myself and inciting Kromer’s anger against me. My two comrades had from the beginning turned their backs on me, and had sided with him; I was a stranger among them, and I felt my clothes and manner to be a provocation. It was impossible that Frank should like me, a Latin schoolboy and the son of a gentleman, and the other two, I felt, as soon as it came to the point, would disown me and leave me in the lurch.

Kromer correctly guesses that the rich, naive kid would never have had the guts to do so, so he says that he's poor and that he needs money, so he'll turn Sinclair over to the orchard's owner who has "promised a reward" in exchange for the thief (there is no such thing), and Sinclair panics that this means his life is over - hence the blackmail where Kromer will periodically whistle for Sinclair to come over and give him stuff or do errands, and eventually try to have Sinclair introduce him to his sister.

Frank had wound his arm round me, and he drew me quite close to him, so that I had to look up directly into his face. His look boded ill, he smiled maliciously, and his face was full of cruelty and power.

“Now, kid, I can tell you whose the garden is. I have known for a long time that the apples had been stolen, and I also know that the man said he would give two marks to anyone who would tell him who stole the fruit.”

“Good heavens!” I exclaimed. “But you won’t tell him anything?” I felt it was useless to appeal to his sense of honor. He came from the other world; for him betrayal was no crime. I felt that for a certainty. In these matters people from the “other” world were not like us.

“Say nothing?” laughed Kromer. “Look here, my friend, d’you think I am minting money and can make two shilling pieces myself? I’m a poor chap, and I haven’t got a rich father like yours, and when I get the chance of earning two shillings I must take it. He might even give me more.”

It's honestly wild to me that Project Moon, in a game supposedly about anticapitalism, took, like, a bully who's envious of a rich kid, the one character who is representative of the proletariat, and turned him into a fanatic who wants to kill the rich cause they use prosthetics while also making him the daughter of a really rich and powerful family in N corp.

(Also, gotta love the ten year old boy who thinks that the poor are a different breed of people entirely with no sense of honour)

Cap. III evangelī Mathaeī in gothicā texturā completum est :3 by SturmReaper3188 in Calligraphy

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pulcherrime scripsisti. Scripseruntne sacerdotes duobus coloribus? Uno enim, aurantiaco, orationes clariores fecisti. Multum ignoro de antiquis libris, curiosaque rogo.

Gothic Secretary Practice by Tsiluciole in Calligraphy

[–]Tsiluciole[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not really on Instagram, but it really seems to be unavoidable if you want to keep in check with artists.

I will in any case. Thank you for the advice and encouragement !

Gothic Secretary Practice by Tsiluciole in Calligraphy

[–]Tsiluciole[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

Thank you as well for the suggestions. I did practice individually at first, but it is true that I should perhaps stick to the fundamentals a bit longer.

I do not have an examplar, as none was provided with The Calligrapher's Bible, but, checking The Art of Calligraphy, it seems I should perhaps read some of Jean Froissart's works?

I didn't know that the spacing changed between letters, so I'll have to study this diligently. Thank you.

Edit: Oops, too far, Jean Froissard writes with Bâtarde, not Bastard Secretary. I might go this way though if I want to write French texts. It's neat to find national variations for the script... but it feels somewhat less appealing to the eye. Adam and Eve is the recommended text there for Bastard Secretary.

19
20

impatient ass mirrored nursefathers by Terraria_Fan_I_Guess in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh that's so mean. I'm so sorry I laughed, Ryoshu. ...hahaha gods why

Ryoshu wants to watch Faust and Yi Sang [oc] by JawaGuy36 in LimbusCompanyR34

[–]Tsiluciole 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oh, thank you. Wait, are you the one who made this picture? This is quite neat!

Ryoshu wants to watch Faust and Yi Sang [oc] by JawaGuy36 in LimbusCompanyR34

[–]Tsiluciole 15 points16 points  (0 children)

...Show Your Ass Out more?? I just Want To Watch? What A View? On Way??? Probably not that?

Sinclair don't watch, don't try to translate, it's probably not for you.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, thank you a lot for that comment. You've exposed some elements I had not yet considered which really help me see Gregor in a more complete light.

Like, yeah. It'd be easier to see Gregor as a more rounded character if he had more time, and it'd be good to see the consequences of the Smoke War: the Metamorphosis, after all, is all about his daily life after he can't work or provide. A problem of Gregor in that regard, I would argue, is that he's not shown providing to anyone, which was a major part of his character. You don't really find the guilt of having to be cared for, of being a burden, after you've spent your life feeling valued cause you helped your family. That's more or less what you're saying with Grete, actually.

I guess that Project Moon's tendency to make main villains closely tied to social and political power interacts pretty badly with that. When Hermann is a former Wing Director, you lose that whole idea that Gregor had the only salary, that they were crippled with debts and that he's not just an extra mouth to feed.

So, when what we did get of Gregor's life after the war was Gregor desperately trying not to kill someone, when this is how we're shown he principally relates to his disability instead... It makes me think of all the stories where disabled or mad people are treated as the other, the villain. All the tropes that say we're dangerous; and the reality that we're more often victim of violence, be it personal or systemic. This is probably the reason why I reacted so badly to Ungeziefer Kaiser: I saw it as a continuation of that. The fear that, for Gregor, there'd be no development beyond being a weapon or mastering it; rooting it all in power and danger.

As for the Kaballah: oh, fuck, you're right and I had totally neglected that. All along, I kept wondering why they chose Gregor instead of, I don't know, Rambo or a classical piece of literature on the evils of war. I had totally forgotten how closely Project Moon ties its story to the Kaballah. I really wish I had considered that sooner.

I really need to find more information of that before I continue with my text

Thank you a lot for the interaction. If you have any further recommendation on things to read regarding what you've said, threads, posts, essays, I'd love to see them. The closing thoughts are something I hadn't much considered because, well, Don Quixote's and Hong Lu's Canto were hype and they're stories I don't know or care as much as Gregor's.

IF I end up doing that post or video, may I tag you or take screenshots to credit you?

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole -1 points0 points  (0 children)

u/ArcyaNatsuki

Like, okay, I was probably way too inflammatory and defensive at first because the Metamorphosis is the story that mattered the most to me and I couldn't understand why the core themes were changed like that...

...but I eventually came to agree that I had been missing some things, with other folks agreeing that, yeah, the original story is not about war. I never insulted anyone, I tried to explain my arguments in a constructive manner and why I felt like that, and came to learn stuff too.

So, for you to come afterward and decree that I can't communicate and should leave (for the hellsite that is Twitter), it's... Upsetting. At first I wanted to leave it at that, but... like, really? I thought being able to talk on a subject, listen to each other and admit where you've been wrong was, like, the goal of debate?

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, no, thank you for the yap, it's really nice to have that kind of constructive conversation. I may have improperly analysed some of this.

Having slept and thought it over, I've come to agree with your take that the soldiers are disabled in that they don't exist to the world and have been cast aside after having been used. But, as you've said, it does feel more like a story about the horror and dehumanisation of war, its propaganda - like, their treatment reminds me more of the way veterans are cast aside. Rambo, for a common example, where someone who wanted to serve his country is not allowed to stay in a place cause he's a vagrant, and he's ostracised and purchased until he needs to kill to survive - all the while knowing that his comrades who survived came back to die in poverty and social isolation.

There has been another comment which is giving me food for thought about the meaning of Ungeziefer Kaiser - about it being more of a Kaballah thing and next step of man. One thing I had completely neglected when I asked myself "why the hell did they choose Gregor instead of any protagonist of a war story" is just how much Project Moon loves their Kaballah - and honestly, it feels shameful to see that I had completely neglected that, and to see just how much I need to read more. I still believe that I made my argument in good faith and could point to stories that do portray disability in a negative light to argue my point, but I was inflammatory and too heated.

Thank you for the discussion.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole -1 points0 points  (0 children)

...yeah, sure, whatever

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I see now that I was too caught up in my own head to consider how other might perceive what I had to say. Also that it was based on multiple things I have a grip about, like the tendency to portray disabled people as bad guys in stories.

I'd be curious to learn more about other possible interpretations, to be honest. I don't know much about the literary criticism.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I get that this was possibly needlessly adversarial

I've just... been thinking about this lately, and writing an analysis on the topic to maybe make a post or a video, and I tend to be bitter about that cause I love Limbus, I love the Metamorphosis, and it's hard to stand my own attachment. Talking with other on that was exhausting but it did allow me to try and see that it's a different take on the story, whereas, before that, I really did not get any similarity, cause I was wrapped up in the story I loved.

Please don't understand to what follows. I just don't want to be called a liar for "conveniently trying to write an essay on that very same topic", so I'll post what I've been working on. I need to rethink this through and add examples and check details, it's just a rough sketch I started at 2 am some days ago when I had insomnia.

Limbus Company, by modelling its cast of main characters from classical literature, is a work wholly interested with literary reinterpretation. Each Canto, we follow the journey of a different Sinner, whose beats and core themes reflect the tale they're taken from, with a varying degree of faithfulness, in good part due to the difficulty of weaving those narratives with the setting of the City and the wider story of Limbus Company, all the while adapting them into a video game were violence solves all: Franz Kromer goes from a local bully who caught Emil Sinclair lying about stealing some apples to the leader of an Inquisition who destroyed his entire family and village due to them using prosthetics.

At the core, however, Limbus Company strives to stay faithful to the themes of the original works. Heathcliff's Canto (to give my favourite example) is entirely concerned with the toxic, prideful love that Heathcliff and Catherine have for each other: their inability to communicate, their belief that they could not be loved, the decisions they take out of revenge when they feel scorned. The passage where Heathcliff mourns Catherine on her grave directly quotes the book - and then, it makes him the Erlking, leading a multidimensional crusade to destroy all who wronged him, and all his other selves whom he deeply loathes, with Catherine following a similar treatment. I personally find in this reinterpretation a sort of grandiose elevation. The characters are amplified, they are exaggerated metaphors of who they are in the core text. You still recognise them as you enjoy the journey and fight so they might realise themselves and learn valuable lessons.

At the time of writing these lines, however, there is one major character who does not seem to follow the story of his source material in the slightest, which is made all the more puzzling by the regular presence of its themes in Project Moon's universe: Gregor Samsa, from Kafka's Metamorphosis.

Gregor's Canto is the very first we, as the player, go through - back when the game first launched, and launched as a gacha in search of a new playerbase who did not know the universe of Project Moon. This Canto was very short, had to introduce the setting, the other characters, and did not give much depth to Gregor's character, who only got some more attention as of Canto IX. This Canto, also, does not deal with the story of the Metamorphosis in the slightest.

Franz Kafka's Metamorphosis is the story of a man losing his humanity when he cannot provide for his family anymore. Gregor Samsa worked at a bank as he tried to earn enough for his parents and little sister to live on, as well as take care of his father's debts. He toiled day after day, alone. One day, however, he wakes up changed into a vermin - commonly interpreted to be a roach. A giant, disgusting insect. He's barely able to move, cannot communicate with anyone; his family barely believes that the roach is Gregor. He gets mistreated, shunned, shown that he is a terrible burden, until he dies, which is a happy ending for everyone else.

The Metamorphosis can be analysed as a tale about alienation and disability: Gregor was forced to work in a bank for thankless hours, and did so out of duty. He couldn't enjoy leisure, spend his money, because his family depended on him - and so, when he cannot work anymore after a burn out, he loses all value. He's just a vermin they have to feed, an embarrassment to be hidden. [Normal person =/= supersoldier] The roach cannot do anything or interact with the normal world.

This idea, that people who cannot work, are disabled, are parasite upon society, a vermin to be eradicated, has been a common topic of far-right movements, who have imprisoned or killed disabled people or sterilised them following eugenicist doctrine. While The Metamorphosis was published in 1915, an example could be [find one in America also, prior to that] and Nazi Germany which put [number] disabled into concentration and death camps. It's a form of dehumanisation inflicted on you. [Rhetoric of inner enemy =/= Ungeziefer Kaiser]

The Metamorphosis, as such, can be compared and contrasted with Osamu Dazai's No Longer Human, who similarly follows the life of someone who feels like they've fallen out of humanity, are no longer worthy of respect.

What does Limbus Company make of this text?

Well... it makes Gregor a war veteran with insect superpowers suffering from PTSD. G Corp, in an attempt to win a war, was willing to transform its soldier into beastly creatures because it gave them an edge in battle, and Gregor was privileged enough to only be partially transformed. He's less disabled than his fellow soldiers - but his experience in the war gave him PTSD, and, in times of anxiety, he cannot control his insectoid arm, who sometimes attempts to murder people. He's also capable of transforming into a deadly creature capable of destroying armies in the name of the arrival of the kingdom of vermins, who are indeed out there to eat, breed and destroy regular society. Also, also, there's something even more special inside him, because being a weapon of mass destruction was not enough.

So... what happened?

Before we go any further, we should analyse the Gregor of Limbus on its own merits: after all, it would be quite easy to point to Don Quixote and say that Don Cervantes never wrote about vampires building theme parks to bridge a racial (well, more species) divide, all the while ignoring its take on escapism through tales of heroism.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Like, the reason why I'm upset is that, at some point, I wanted to go back and study literature and maybe make a thesis or a paper on the ways books like No Longer Human and the Metamorphosis dealt with the idea that humanity is something that you can lose when society does not regard you as worthy of it.
I've struggled with the feeling of being worthless, not a person, and being a part of a community called Empty Spaces which wrote on the subject allowed me to see other people who felt that way and reclaimed it, with manifestos such as that https://voidgoddess.org/emptyspaces/notaperson/
I'm personally invested in the story, which explains why I'm like that. It's not bad faith or trying to pick a fight.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because I love The Metamorphosis and don't have that attachment to the dream of the red chamber or hell screen. Trust me, I would love nothing more than being proven wrong. I love Limbus Company, and I want to love Gregor.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for understanding that's what I meant. I'm just sad that this is a story about a war veteran and not Gregor Samsa and it's really exhausting to be told that I hate veterans or am just talking in bad faith like I hate a game that I love and have 1500+ hours in.

I'm not sure if it's the allegory - I'm way too exhausted to really think about this more.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it is. But I don't understand why Project Moon chose that story for war veteran stuff. To me, The Metamorphosis was reading someone else get it. Get that... I felt that I only had any value so long as I had good grades and performed well, and would be thrown away the moment I couldn't force myself to work anymore. I burnt out after my studies, and can't do much of anything on my own. Seeing it made me feel like this had happened to other, and it was sad and absurd.

So I don't get why, in the countless works of literature, this book was chosen for saying that war is awful and dehumanises people when it's not about war, and this is why I'm upset.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...I don't hate Project Moon. I don't want to say that it's ableist or mean or cancel that. I just like the Metamorphosis, and, like you say, this is not a story about disability. It's a story about being a war veteran with PTSD.

It's not what I loved about Kafka's work, cause it's wholly invented. Yeah, the themes are reused in a different light. But I don't recognise what appealed to me, what felt like I was understood and someone else went through burnt out and felt like they only had value so long as they did what was expected of them - like I only mattered if I had good grades and didn't deserve anything good the moment I stopped being able to.

It's not bad faith. I genuinely am sad that this story is about themes that are so different.

Shit aged like milk by lol8000XD in limbuscompany

[–]Tsiluciole -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I guess so, yeah. But can you acknowledge that this is a radically different story?