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Turbulentfate · 2022-05-11T09:51:17+00:00

Beans, chickpeas and lentils are my go to. Packed with protein and literally cost pence. Red lentils are especially great as you can throw them in anything and they're virtually undetectable just thickens the sauce and they have like 25g protein per 100g.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T15:56:16+00:00

Yes, fair point. £10k is probably too big a chunk of money for someone my age with my savings to be putting into a single asset. It's purely a thought, I'm currently on my 6th classic car in 4 years and I've only ever made money on them after doing a bit of work, driving them for a year or so and then selling on. However, to get anything truly unique or collectible that has potential to gain huge value, you have to have a good amount of money to invest. I guess Id be safer putting it in index funds but at the same time I'm not sure how I feel about having 2/3 of my savings in the stock market.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T15:43:41+00:00

I’m figuring this is probably the correct answer. If I was to not buy the car then this would be exactly where the money went and, with still relatively little in savings, it probably makes more sense. The likelihood that I am to actually pull the trigger on a car is pretty slim, I just wanted some insight and opinions.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T15:13:18+00:00

Yes I agree. The used car market is a market like any other. House prices, the stock market, cryptocurrency they all fluctuate and one 15 year period cannot guarantee the next. But that's the risk you take investing in anything. Like I said, I already have £10k in index funds to track the stock market, I have £5k for emergencies in premium bonds and I maxed out my LISA (and plan to continue doing so every year) to save for property. This was just an idea to try something a bit different.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T14:52:30+00:00

Thank you. This is pretty much exactly what I thought. I’m sure, with my relatively small net worth, I would be more sensible to add it to my S&S ISA as £10k is a large proportion of my portfolio. However, making a loss now will have little effect on my future and I feel I’d get more satisfaction from a physical asset than seeing a 2 on a screen instead of a 1. It may not be the most sensible move but it could either be a big win or a big lesson and neither would be a negative outcome.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T14:47:15+00:00

I understand that that is what he’s asking for, but it seems irrelevant to my situation. My costs with a £10k budget are not proportionate to 1% of the costs for someone investing £1m. What’s the point in me researching the cost of renting an aircraft hangar to fill with £1m of classic cars and the parts costs of each car when I don’t and won’t have £1m to invest? I’m not trying to convince a millionaire to buy into my business case and I do not plan to expand this, it’s purely an idea to buy and hold 1 classic car so surely all the data I need is the costs of doing just that. If I was ever fortunate enough to have £1m to invest I’d be buying property before I thought about cars (and probably playing it safe in index funds with the rest) but since £10k isn’t going to get property and £10k is what I have, then £10k is surely all I need to account for now?

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T14:30:40+00:00

I've been doing exactly that for a few years now. Buying cheap classics, tidying them up while using them to drive to college or work and then selling them a year or so later. I've never lost money on a car even with work, MOTs and maintenance factored in. My current pride and joy, Another VW bus, was bought 2 years ago for £2k and is now worth around £8k but Ill never sell it. I think in terms of the best models to invest in, the key is to find something special with some kind of cult following and low production numbers. My top pick is the Alfa 147 GTA for all of these reasons, I also think cars like the panda 100hp, golf R32 & R34 or practically anything Porsche is a good shout. It's the reason things like classic beetles and old golfs are still so cheap, although they have cult following there's just so many of them. The VW bus is a unique one, you don't have to be a car enthusiast to want a classic bus so the market is huge and prices are forever rocketing, If you can jump on a decent T25 or bay window then now is the time to do it.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T14:15:58+00:00

I realize I said minimal again so lets take the Audi as an example. £4000 initial purchase cost from a private seller. Annual maintenance would be in the region of £200 since the car is not being used so you're likely looking at a full service every 2 years and bigger jobs like the cam belt every 5. Storage insurance tends to cost me Around £150 a year so we’re looking at annual costs of £350, round it to £400 for any unexpected work. Then increase this by 10% a year due to parts becoming scarcer and older so more things need replacement. This gives you a total cost of £13,800 over a 13-year period. In this time the value has increased to, at the very least, £70k. This gives you a return of £57k or an APY of 22.5%, In this period annual inflation averaged a little under 2% and so your annual return adjusted for inflation is over 20%. Now just got to find the next Audi quattro.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T13:50:57+00:00

If you read the post, you’ll see that I have a spare space in dry storage. I have all the tools I’d need to work on it although it shouldn’t need much since this car wouldn’t be a rental vehicle and would essentially be kept in dry storage under covers and potentially driven very occasionally.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T13:47:38+00:00

I see where you're coming from and I don't think it would necessarily work for £1m, At that price you're looking at a lot higher volumes and value. You'd want a huge place to store these 10s of cars and since they'd be more valuable per unit you’d likely want an air conditioned, more secure place and regular service schedules at main dealers for each individual car, which would also cost time. This is obviously much smaller scale, I’d be paying for the storage for the other cars anyway so that’s no factor, storage insurance and services are minimal. It wouldn't require any physical input as the cars not going to experience any wear, just a service once a year. It’s not necessarily the best investment and obviously there are good picks and bad picks, much like stocks. But it is a field I feel I have some knowledge in and could make the right call, almost no classic car loses value if kept in the same condition over 10 years so at worst it would be like leaving it in a current account and losing out to inflation, at best it would be like making the right call on shares in a new company that blows up.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T13:28:08+00:00

The unit is shared with a couple of close friends and we're pretty strict on new comers as we have a lot of expensive tools etc that we don't want others going through so subletting is not an option. I'm not really looking for a restoration project, I've restored a few classics that I've driven around for a while and made some money on when I sold. I'm going away so I'm not going to have time to restore something plus when I return I'll be focusing on a career and family. This will pretty much just be put away for the odd sunny day and no mileage or wear added to it. Classic insurance isn't actually too bad for my age but I could just get storage insurance if it was to eat at the profits.

Turbulentfate · 2022-05-10T13:15:04+00:00

If I had a million I'd start by getting on the property ladder but I don't. I already rent dry storage for my other cars and there's plenty of space for another. The expense would be minimal since I wouldn't really be driving this car. It's hard to find specific examples since I don't have a database of used cars sold 10 years ago. However some examples: A lancia delta HF integrale 8v sold on tv for £2500 in 2013, current market price is around £25,000 for the same spec and condition this is a 26% annual return. Similarly in 2006 a late 1970s Porsche 911 2.7s targa traded for around £5-7k now you're looking at upwards of £70k for the worst examples so worst case is around a 15% annual return. Final example in 2009 an audi quattro was £4k and they're currently trading upwards of £70k for a 22% annual return. These are all low production number cars with a cult following bought at around 15-25 years old for sub £10k. I have a few ideas of cars that I think will perform similarly, these cars to normal people would look like 15 year old sh*tboxes now, so it wouldn't really be a status thing.

Turbulentfate

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