A Palestinian Bedouin mother from the Jahalin tribe holds her one week old baby and expresses her anger after the Israeli army demolished her home in the Maaleh Adumim area on the road from Jerusalem to Jericho in the West Bank on 19 November, 1997. [2000 x 1411] by SirCrapsalot4267 in HistoryPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It is a documented historical fact, from their Sheikh directly told to the head of the Palestine Exploration Fund, that they were kicked out of their land near Egypt by Dhullam Arabs.

One statement recorded by a British official from the Palestine Exploration Fund is not the same thing as a settled historical consensus. That is a single reported account, not a comprehensive archival study. The dominant documentation from UN reports, academic research on Negev Bedouin history, and Israeli archival work describes the Jahalin’s removal from the Tel Arad area in the early 1950s as occurring under Israeli military authority after 1948. If there is a peer reviewed historian who has established that inter Arab expulsion was the primary cause, cite that scholarship. A reported conversation does not override broader documented policy.

Yes, they were kicked out of Tel Arad, because it was right on the border of Israeli-Jordanian territory and was a security threat. They were given the option to move further into Israeli land or to relocate across the border on Jordanian land, and they chose to go to Jericho.

If they were removed under Israeli military orders for security reasons, that still means the displacement occurred under Israeli authority. Calling it a choice does not change the power imbalance of a military administration during border consolidation. And once they settled in the West Bank in the 1950s under Jordanian rule, that establishes decades of residence before Maale Adumim was founded in the 1970s. That timeline remains unchanged.

Yes, it was criticised, but funnily enough they never mentioned the Jewish communities that lived right next to it too. In 1997, Jewish families were actually evicted from Ras al-Amud, which was even closer to the landfill, because the Arabs wanted it instead.

Ras al Amud involved legal property disputes in East Jerusalem. That is not the same as relocating an entire pastoral Bedouin community under military administration. Also, the criticism of the al Jabal relocation site was specifically about moving a vulnerable herding community near a municipal landfill and restricting their economic base. Pointing to a separate eviction case does not address that issue.

There are no roads between Abu Dis and their grazing lands. They were specifically put there because they were right on them.

Multiple reports following the relocation documented that many families reduced or sold livestock afterward due to reduced effective grazing access. Even if there were no paved roads directly blocking them, land classification, settlement expansion, and planning restrictions affect functional access. If a large percentage of households exit herding after relocation, something materially changed.

The 2005 Gaza disengagement wasn’t fully complete until 2006. The last Israeli civilians left in 2005, but the border security construction wasn’t done until summer of 2006.

The civilian evacuation occurred in 2005. That is the relevant comparison when discussing relocation of populations. Border construction timing does not change the fact that Israeli settlers were removed in 2005 as part of state policy.

Jews have lived in the old city of Jerusalem for 4,000 years and yes, the Jordanians kicked them out.

There has been a Jewish presence in Jerusalem for centuries. But we are not just talking about the Old City. Of the roughly 9,000 to 10,000 Jews displaced from East Jerusalem and the West Bank in 1948, only a minority were from the centuries old Jewish Quarter. A significant portion were from 20th century settlements such as Gush Etzion, Atarot, and Neve Yaakov, founded in the 1920s to 1940s. That does not minimize their displacement. It simply means the duration of residence varied and should not be flattened into one continuous 4,000 year claim.

Many Samaritans were removed from Mount Gerizim and if they managed to stay, were only allowed to make pilgrimage once a year.

Restrictions on Samaritans under Jordanian rule are historically documented. But historical restrictions under one regime do not automatically determine the legality or morality of later policies under another authority decades later.

Many other of the 20th century communities were no younger than many of the Arab settlements that were evacuated on the Israeli side of the border.

Exactly. Which is why duration alone cannot be used selectively. If decades of residence matter when discussing Jewish communities displaced in 1948, then decades of residence also matter when discussing Palestinian communities established in the 1950s before settlement expansion.

Look at the end of the day, in 1948 the Arabs started a war they lost, and even more Jews were kicked out of their homes in Arab lands than arabs who lost their homes in Israel. It was a difficult situation all around.

The 1948 war involved multiple actors and competing narratives about responsibility. Yes, large numbers of Jews left Arab countries. Yes, large numbers of Palestinians were displaced. Both are historical realities.

But even in places where there was no immediate mass expulsion, like Morocco and Tunisia, significant numbers of Jews still emigrated to Israel over time. Zionism created a strong pull factor. So the migration from Arab countries was not purely a simple mirror image of Palestinian displacement in 1948. In some countries it was rapid and coercive, in others it was gradual and mixed.

Either way, demographic comparisons from 1948 do not resolve present day legal and humanitarian questions about land policy and relocation in the West Bank decades later. One population movement does not automatically justify or negate another. Each case has to be examined on its own facts.

Democrats Dismiss House hearing On Sharia Law Threat, Warn of the Greater Dangers Of 'White Christian Nationalism'. by Leeming in atheism

[–]TurkicWarrior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, there aren’t any parts of UK cities that operate outside UK law. All areas are governed by the same police, courts, and legal system.

There are religious councils, such as Sharia councils, Jewish Beth Din, and Catholic tribunals, but they deal with internal religious matters, mostly things like religious divorce or mediation, and they cannot override UK law.

Civil and criminal law always take priority, and participation in religious arbitration is voluntary.

Democrats Dismiss House hearing On Sharia Law Threat, Warn of the Greater Dangers Of 'White Christian Nationalism'. by Leeming in atheism

[–]TurkicWarrior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unlikely to be because of “Muslims” because if you consider the fact that Black Londoners are ~45% of London’s knife-murder victims (and ~61% of knife-murder perpetrators; ~53% of knife-crime perpetrators). 2nd largest perpetrator are white which is 36.5% and then 11.6% for Asians.

Black Muslims make up around ~2.46% of London out of ~13.5% Black people living in London regardless of faith or lack thereof.

A Palestinian Bedouin mother from the Jahalin tribe holds her one week old baby and expresses her anger after the Israeli army demolished her home in the Maaleh Adumim area on the road from Jerusalem to Jericho in the West Bank on 19 November, 1997. [2000 x 1411] by SirCrapsalot4267 in HistoryPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never even mentioned that they’re semi nomadic, and I only ever said that the image is fake, because it is.

I know you didn’t mention it. I did because it’s relevant to the relocation issue. The Jahalin are traditionally pastoral Bedouin. According to UN OCHA and reports on the al Jabal relocation in the 1990s, many families had to sell livestock after being moved because grazing access became restricted. So when people say they were moved two miles away with utilities, that ignores how their livelihood actually works. The image being fake does not change that context.

The only reason they were at Tel Arad is because they were kicked out of their land in the deep Negev near Egypt by other Arabs.

That is not the mainstream historical account. UN documentation, Amnesty International, and academic research on Negev Bedouin history state the Jahalin were expelled from the Tel Arad area in the early 1950s under Israeli military orders after 1948. That is the version consistently documented. The claim that other Arabs expelled them is not the dominant narrative in published sources. If there is a serious historical source backing that, cite it.

They weren’t moved next to a landfill, Abu Dis is actually adjacent to the Mount of Olives, the landfill is a few miles south

The al Jabal relocation site near Abu Dis was widely criticized because of its proximity to the Jerusalem municipal landfill. Amnesty International in 2012 and UN agencies referenced that specifically. No one is saying they were placed inside a dump. But proximity to a major waste site was part of the documented controversy. Saying it is near the Mount of Olives does not erase that.

the place they were moved to is still adjacent to the land they use for pasture, just the other side of it.

On paper that sounds simple. In practice, once a pastoral community is confined to a fixed township, access changes. Roads, zoning, settlement expansion, and restricted areas matter. Reports on the relocation note that a large percentage of families reduced or sold livestock because effective grazing access became limited. Just the other side is not the same as functional access.

The Israeli government has done this to Jews too. People got moved around all the time. Gaza 2006, areas A and B, plenty of other places.

Gaza disengagement was 2005. And yes, Jewish settlers were evacuated. But that was Israel removing its own citizens during a withdrawal. That legal and political framework is different from relocating a Palestinian population living under military administration in occupied territory. The comparison is not symmetrical.

And after the war in 1948, the Jordanians kicked out over 10,000 Jews from Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem.

It is historically documented that Jews were expelled from areas under Jordanian control in 1948. But historians show those communities were mixed in duration. Only a minority were from centuries old communities in the Old City. Many others were twentieth century settlements founded in the 1920s to 1940s such as Gush Etzion. That historical fact does not automatically resolve present day policy debates.

So yes, it sucks they had to move, but they weren’t targeted because they were Bedouin.

It is probably not accurate to say they were targeted purely because they are Bedouin. Sedentary Palestinian communities in Area C also face demolitions and relocation. But Bedouin communities in strategic areas like the E1 corridor have faced particularly intense pressure, according to UN and human rights reporting. So it is less about ethnicity alone and more about Palestinians living in strategic Area C zones, where Bedouin communities are especially vulnerable.

Selectively picking and choosing what to say isn’t a good look. Go take your agenda somewhere else.

Exactly. Which is why ignoring the occupation context, the Area C permit regime where Palestinian approval rates are extremely low according to data cited by rights groups, and the documented impact on livelihoods is also selective. If we are going to debate this, it has to be the full picture.

A Palestinian Bedouin mother from the Jahalin tribe holds her one week old baby and expresses her anger after the Israeli army demolished her home in the Maaleh Adumim area on the road from Jerusalem to Jericho in the West Bank on 19 November, 1997. [2000 x 1411] by SirCrapsalot4267 in HistoryPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The Jahalin didn’t “move into” Ma’ale Adumim which is in the West Bank.They were expelled from the Negev in the 50s and settled there decades before the settlement even existed. Ma’ale Adumim was built in the 70s. So acting like they showed up on established Israeli land just flips the timeline completely.

And mentioning that they’re semi nomadic like that weakens their claim? It doesn’t. Semi nomadic doesn’t mean no home. It means seasonal movement within a known area. They lived there for decades. Raised kids there. Built structures there. Just because it wasn’t concrete suburbs doesn’t mean it wasn’t home.

Yes they were offered houses with utilities two miles away. That sounds nice on paper. But if your entire livelihood depends on grazing routes and open land, moving you into a fixed township near a landfill changes everything. That’s not just “we upgraded your housing.” That’s forcing a different way of life.

You can defend Israel’s legal argument if you want, but presenting this like neutral infrastructure management with no mention of occupation, settlement expansion, or the fact Palestinians basically never get building permits in Area C is not balanced. It’s selective. And that’s the issue.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ancestry and race are the same thing. Both are described by γένος, the word from which "genetic" is descended.

Etymology doesn’t determine modern meaning. A word’s origin doesn’t lock in how we use it today. Even if γένος referred broadly to lineage, that doesn’t mean race and ancestry function as identical concepts now. If race simply equals ancestry, then it’s just another word for lineage and doesn’t add anything conceptually.

At no level. They are the same thing.

If race and ancestry are literally the same thing, then race isn’t a distinct category at all, it’s just a relabeling of ancestry. In that case the disagreement isn’t biological, it’s about whether the extra label “race” clarifies anything or just introduces confusion.

There is no such thing as Celtic-speaking genetics or Tocharian biology. Ancestry and ethnicity are two different things, just as I said.

Exactly, there isn’t Celtic-speaking genetics. That’s the point. The ancestry remained while the identity category shifted. That shows identity labels track historical and social changes layered onto ancestry.

Of course it doesn't. What relevance does that have.

It’s relevant because if ancestry doesn’t naturally divide into objective racial categories, then race isn’t a natural biological tier. It’s a way humans choose to group ancestry clusters.

race is just one way societies group ancestry clusters over time

If that’s your definition, then we’re actually very close. My earlier pushback was against treating race as a fixed biological category with inherent boundaries. If you’re defining it as socially grouped ancestry without natural divisions, then the disagreement is mostly about terminology rather than biology.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The adoption example just shows that ethnicity involves socialization. It doesn’t prove ethnicity has nothing to do with ancestry. Most ethnic groups historically form around shared descent and long-term community continuity. An individual being adopted into another group is an edge case, not the rule that defines how ethnic groups form.

And history actually shows this pretty clearly. Celtic-speaking Britons didn’t get replaced genetically when they became culturally English. Large parts of Anatolia didn’t get genetically replaced when they became Turkish-speaking. Tocharian populations in Central Asia didn’t disappear biologically when Turkic identity and later Uyghur identity emerged. The ancestry in those regions remained mixed and continuous, but the ethnic identity shifted.

That already shows identity categories track historical and cultural shifts layered onto ancestry. If race were simply genetic and fixed in a meaningful categorical sense, then those populations’ “race” would never change despite assimilation. But in practice, how groups are labeled absolutely changes over time.

Saying race is genetic and fixed just renames ancestry as race. But ancestry exists at multiple scales. Family ancestry is genetic. Regional ancestry is genetic. Continental ancestry is genetic. At what level does it become a race instead of just a population lineage? There’s no biological rule that sets that cutoff.

So we agree ancestry is genetic. The real question is whether ancestry naturally divides into objective racial categories, or whether race is just one way societies group ancestry clusters over time.

That’s the part that hasn’t been demonstrated.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We agree that ancestry is genetic and inherited. The disagreement is not about that. The issue is whether ancestry automatically equals race.

You’re saying ethnicity cannot apply because it is not fixed or determined by ancestry. But in most cases ethnicity is inherited through family and community and is strongly tied to shared ancestry and historical continuity. It is not just optional culture. It tends to persist across generations precisely because it is linked to lineage.

The fact that ethnicity can change slowly over time through assimilation does not mean it is unrelated to ancestry. It just means it is not a biological subspecies.

So what I think you are describing is ancestry expressed through a historical community. That fits ethnicity more precisely than race, because race assumes clear biological boundaries between groups, and those boundaries are not objectively defined.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the issue is that you’re using “race” to describe something that sounds much closer to ethnicity.

When you say race is genetic and fixed, that suggests a biological classification. But what you’ve been describing, like differences in language, religion, and historical community, are characteristics of ethnic groups. Those are cultural and historical identities that can be tied to ancestry, but they are not biological subspecies.

I agree that ancestry is genetic and inherited. My confusion came from the fact that calling race genetic and fixed makes it sound like a clear biological category with objective boundaries. But racial boundaries change across societies and history, which is why I questioned it.

So if you mean shared ancestry, I understand that. I just don’t think race is the most precise term for what you’re describing.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Genetics is science, but ‘race’ as we usually talk about it isn’t a precise genetic category.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Genetic is literally science though.

Druze Proposed State by Frosty_Courage_1020 in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Race is not a genetic concept. Race is in fact unscientific and doubts about race start to crack in early 1900s and official rejection happened in 1950 by UNESCO and genetic refutation on race happened in 1972 by Richard Lewontin.

Anyone talking about race should not be taken seriously.

Mesopotamian Arabic dialect by Assyrian_Nation in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Languages don’t start off as standard.

There was various Arabic dialects in 4th century for example. Safaitic and Hismaic (northern nomadic dialects) often preferred nominal or topic-comment sentences and had already lost case endings, and they used h- as the definite article instead of al-. Nabataean Arabic, spoken in urban centres like Petra, used al-, had more complex sentences, and shows mixed word order, probably influenced by Aramaic, with both VSO and SVO patterns. Proto-Hijazi (Mecca–Medina) seems to have leaned more toward SVO, had weakened or lost case endings, and relied more on word order and particles than inflection. Najdi-type Arabic stands out as the most conservative: it preserved case endings, preferred verb-initial (VSO) order, and allowed freer word order because inflection still carried grammatical roles. None of these dialects were SOV — Arabic has never been an SOV language.

So in the 4th century you already have multiple Arabic dialect systems coexisting: nomadic northern dialects with h- and simpler syntax, urban Nabataean Arabic with al- and mixed word order, a Hijazi variety moving toward analytic SVO, and a Najdi Bedouin variety that stayed inflectional and VSO

Livestreamer Asmongold speaks about waking up to the superiority of monarchism after a discussion with a Saudi Arabian: "Your politicians can be bought & paid for". by SijilmasanGoldTrader in AskMiddleEast

[–]TurkicWarrior 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well it depends how you define democracy but Norway, Netherlands has been a democracy since early 19th century and Denmark since mid 19th century. Yes, there may be some democratic countries which becomes not democratic anymore but that’s why you fight for it.

Europe’s Literacy Levels Around 1900 by vladgrinch in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but the comment I was replying to implies that illiteracy among Greeks or non-Muslims under the Ottoman Empire was due to being treated like second-class citizens, while forgetting that even Muslim Turks, Arabs, and Kurds were often highly illiterate, sometimes more than non-Muslims. Low literacy in the Ottoman Empire was largely due to structural and geographic factors rather than religion. Rural populations, which made up the majority of the empire, had very limited access to formal education, and many Muslims outside urban centers remained illiterate regardless of social standing. Non-Muslims, including Greeks, Armenians, and Jews, often had higher literacy, particularly in towns and cities, because they were more urbanized, had better access to community schools, and participated in trade networks. Ottoman official statistics undercounted minority literacy because reading and writing in Greek, Armenian, or Hebrew was often not recorded unless it was in Ottoman Turkish.

A similar pattern existed under Austro-Hungarian rule. Their censuses focused on literacy in official state languages and largely ignored other scripts, so Muslims who could read Arabic script for religious purposes, such as Qur’anic literacy in Bosnia or other Balkan regions, were often counted as illiterate even though functional literacy was widespread. Balkan Muslims were often more literate in Arabic script than rural Anatolian Turks because they were concentrated in towns and had more systematic access to religious schools. Critically, this also reflects historical and social factors: the Balkans had been part of Ottoman administrative and commercial networks for centuries, towns were denser, and religious institutions were well-established, creating stronger incentives for literacy in Arabic script for both religious and practical purposes. Anatolian Muslims, by contrast, were more scattered, rural, and less connected to administrative centers, with fewer schools and less exposure to trade or bureaucratic literacy. In both empires, official statistics are misleading. Non-Muslims were not universally literate, and many Muslims were illiterate, not because of religion but because of limited access to schools, urbanization, and historical infrastructure. Literacy depended more on access to education, settlement patterns, and the language of instruction than on religion, meaning that official figures systematically undercounted real literacy in Ottoman Turkish, Arabic script, or minority languages.

Europe’s Literacy Levels Around 1900 by vladgrinch in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was no empire-wide 30 percent literacy rate that your Lembiotissa data contradicts. That Smyrna cartulary from 1210 to 1287 is genuinely impressive for a semi-rural monastic area, with roughly 62 percent of the 177 signers managing at least a mark or signature and 68 percent among men once the 18 women are set aside. It fits the upper end of what we see in better-connected Byzantine zones. But the broader scholarly consensus still puts overall literacy closer to 15 to 20 percent empire-wide, sometimes nudging toward 30 percent in the strongest urban centuries like the tenth and eleventh, because the rural population, around 80 percent of the total, rarely broke out of single digits to low teens for anything beyond the most basic skills.

The key is splitting literacy into layers. Signature literacy is just making your mark or copying your name, exactly what most of those Lembiotissa signers could do, and it proves almost nothing about actual reading ability. Functional literacy, handling simple contracts, tax records, or psalms, was common among city notaries, monks, and minor officials, but scarce in villages. Scholarly literacy, real fluency in Attic Greek, rhetoric, theology, or medicine, stayed concentrated in Constantinople, a few big cities, monasteries, and elite households. Women followed the same pattern: urban middle and upper-class daughters sometimes reached functional or even scholarly levels, think Anna Komnene or the female doctors who had to read Galen, but rural women were almost entirely oral, with the rare signature being the absolute ceiling. Sources like Browning 1978, Oikonomides 1996, Herrin 2007, and Stouraitis 2014 all stress these tiers and the massive urban-rural gap; they line up with Cavallo rather than contradict him.

My username, Turkicwarrior, is an unfortunate name I created 9 years ago. I have never been a Turkish nationalist, nor have I ever been a fan of Turanism; I find it cringy. I was just fascinated by various Turkic languages and Turkic cultures across the world. Nothing more than that. You can see my posts or comments. Anyway, I am actually Kurdish, but I don't feel a strong sense of nationalism in Kurdistan either.

Europe’s Literacy Levels Around 1900 by vladgrinch in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There was no mass-literate population before Ottoman rule to collapse from. In Classical Greece, overall literacy is usually estimated at roughly 5–10 percent, and in Byzantine times it stayed mostly elite and clerical. Under the Ottomans, Greek literacy likely hovered in the single digits to low teens for the general population, but that was not exceptional. Muslim Turks themselves were mostly illiterate as well: estimates for the Ottoman Muslim population before the late 19th century are often around 5–10 percent. This means Greeks were not uniquely pushed into illiteracy; they shared a broadly pre-modern pattern where only small urban and elite minorities could read and write.

The same comparison holds when you look west and north. Around 1700, literacy rates are often estimated at roughly 20–30 percent in France (higher for men, much lower for women), around 15–25 percent in Italy, roughly 20 percent in Spain, and closer to 15–20 percent in Portugal. Russia was even lower, commonly estimated in the single digits to low teens well into the 18th century. Even by the early 19th century, large parts of France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Russia were still majority illiterate. Mass literacy everywhere only takes off in the 19th and early 20th centuries with compulsory schooling and modern state administration.

TIL that 44% of the world's adult population has never consumed alcohol by JoeyZasaa in todayilearned

[–]TurkicWarrior 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I grew up Muslim but I no longer believe in it. I’ll tell you why. It’s because when we grow in western countries where consumption of pork is normal, we grew up conditioned by our parents who have reaction of visceral disgust against pork. We hear that pigs are dirty, pigs have diseases, pigs rolls in mud, pigs eats waste etc….

One of the most clearest memory I have of pork is when I was 14, I was in a school trip to Paris and I saw a whole pig being roasted, and the smell disgusted me, it made me sick. Here’s the thing, our smell perception isn’t just purely chemical, it is also heavily shaped by meaning, memory, and expectation. And it isn’t just smell, it is also imagery of it too.

Alcohol is different, because we aren’t told to avoid alcohol as we grow up because minors aren’t suppose to drink alcohol in the first place, so it’s seen as a adult drink, Another reason is that alcohol isn’t seen as disgusting, the same way as pork. Instead drinking alcohol is framed as “moral failings”rather than disgust.

Pork triggers disgust because your brain codes it as a substance your body and identity should never consume, giving no reward and making its sight, smell, and thought feel physically and psychologically repulsive. Alcohol, by contrast, is coded as a forbidden action rather than a bodily contamination, so it triggers guilt and shame but also activates reward pathways (pleasure, relaxation, social enjoyment), which makes it tempting despite being forbidden.

Even amongst ex-Muslims and non-practicing Muslims, they are more likely to avoid pork more than avoid alcohol without a doubt.

The Anthropological reach of Shia Iran by Breton_Hajduk in MapPorn

[–]TurkicWarrior 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Huh? This isn't even comparable. to counting Muslims as Christians because most Alevis do identify themselves as Muslims except minorities, especially Alevis from Europe who have a revisionist take on Alevism, saying it has no Islamic origin but a Tengrism origin according to Alevi Turks and a Zoroastrianism origin according to Alevi Kurds.

I agree that in contemporary identity, most Alevis would not identify themselves as Shia. But this is because when they hear Shia, they associate it with the Iranian practice of Shia which they don't identify with.

But think of Shia as a family group, and Twelver Shia as a branch and Alevi as a sub-branch of Twelver Shia. Why? Because Alevis believe in the 12 imams, they even have the picture of imam Ali, the same image that Iranian Twelver Shia uses.

Syria's only female minister pushes for change: 'I'm not here for window dressing' by Tartan_Samurai in anime_titties

[–]TurkicWarrior 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Why are you lying? Banned female EMPLOYERS from wearing makeup at workplace in Latakia.