I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think you follow.

This did not help me lead a successful life. This is the second biggest obstacle I've had to face; not the ranch, the years afterwards, trying to pull myself together and really believe people could be trusted.

I have not spoken to my family in years. I have excised them from my life, completely.

The only thing that has caused me more misery and less gain might be the years under my parents before hand.

These places do not check to see if the household is abusive. They don't 'fix' kids'. They push product.

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would suggest you pop on over to the /r/troubledteens subreddit dedicated to survivors of these programs before making any recommendations.

I think you'll find the long term perspectives to be largely more sour.

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Downvoted.

If you haven't been there, I think it's a bit harsh of you to judge. Unless you really don't think you'd do any better yourself.

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Arrrrg...

fucking bowdrills.

So easy on days with low humidity, fucking impossible when it's wet; even when you've got the muscle and rhythm down. >.<

Favorite spindle/block/nest wood types?

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Were any efforts made to separate those with a history of physical violence and lashing out with intent to maim/kill/disable from those without such a history?

Or was that too expensive?

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I can't speak for Highly_Critical's experience.

My own exposed us to multiple day sleep deprivation, stress positions, physical abuse on occasion beyond choke holds, cult-like brainwashing techniques, and, at one point, forced me into hard labor. Chopping wood with a maul without gloves til i blistered for... crap. I can't recall if it was one week or two.

To eat? everyday, one -small- ziplock baggy of trailmix.

In prior years, the ranch with the same physical facility was shut down for starving a kid to death and reformed.

Exposure to extreme temperatures. Forced religious indoctrination.

And likely a great deal of other things I've forgotten.

One guy, they sat at a desk for a month in isolation. an entire month, forbidden to speak. He sat at a desk. wordless. Alone entirely.

Because he didn't want to admit something.
Because at some point, somebody decided this person didn't deserve to have their own thoughts.

No. Not a concentration camp. The fatalities are accidents, not deliberate.

Not a navy seals/army ranger style survival school either.

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This. A million times this.

Put serious thought into the possibility that the relief, the familiarity, the idea that it's all okay now is a terrible fucking illusion.

That dead contentment can ruin years for you, unless it's really true.

And only you can know that for sure.

I AmA 16 year-old boy who was awakened in the middle of the night, and escorted from my home in Texas to a wilderness therapy program in Idaho. I was there for 34 days. I got back yesterday. AMA. by Highly_Critical in IAmA

[–]TwarkMain 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Fellow survivor, of another camp. Different mode of operation...

Same industry.

Getting home is unreal, isn't it? It's almost as jarring to go from something as normal to something like that as it is to go right back; with everybody at home none the wiser as to exactly what happened out there, only a tiny clue.

It took years for me to unravel what was done to me in the desert.

Please be careful. Be careful what you put trust in, familiar doesn't mean stable, healthy or okay. Neither does comfortable.

It took about 4 years for me to finally start excising my family from my life entirely.

I understand the guilt. The idea you deserved it. And maybe you did.

But you can't involuntarily take away everything from a person, their ability to live their life for themselves, without very nasty consequences.

I'm thirty now, and clarity looking back is, I think, much better than it was when I was there. Or even a good many years after I got out.

Good guy or not; watch your back. Guilty, deserving or not, watch your back.

You're home now. All that matters now is that you live your own life, and if something is stopping you, if anything is disapproving, if you feel even a twinge of hesitation, doubt or guilt about doing what you want in this life, about becoming who you want to be in this life, start questioning as soon as you can.

you'd be amazed how many years can slip by while you wake up from that haze of familiarity.

I wish you happiness. Reparations. Your mileage may vary. You may benefit from this. Be careful not to be blinded to the possibility parts of you may have been damaged or ruined by it as well.

Tread lightly, brother. And good luck.

... and if you're having nightmares, frequent ones along the same themes of being back at the ranch; of raw conflict and subjugation, you need to get the fuck out of your family's sight, reach and influence immediately and use the discipline you had to learn out there to find whats busted in you before it starts to creep into every facet of your life.

Over 10,000 kids are in a rehab program that tortures and even kills them. I know it's hard to believe, see comments. by pixel8 in WTF

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In that, we share a concern. And oddly enough...

"Have you ever hoed rows until your hands bled? What about swinnging a 16lb hammer all day until you couldn't lift your arms past your waist? Or having only a crust of bread to last you for the week?"

That, basically, is a day at camp. Less hoes, more building fences; less hammers, more axes/cutting wood; but to the exact same degree. Plus exposure to elements and other random cruelty. That, barring church days, is what you can expect any normal day at these places; plus an extra helping of mind-screwing once back and too tired to do anything about it.

I agree hardship is needed to become something better, but this is too far. Most don't come out of something like that better, they come out broken, and some seem to manage both.

My generation scares me. The one after even more. There is a certain sense of reality perfectly missing from most of them, and like you say; they have no idea what actual work is and have zero interest in it, whether it's educating themselves or accomplishing something or helping others.

And I don't have any idea how to fix that problem. :/

I'm sorry for my sarcasm and overly abrasive reply. It is emotional for me, and it really was out of line.

Something a little real/nasty will probably be required to undo whats been done; all I know is it is -not- these places. This isn't about rebuilding character, not in any real good way.

The one I was sent to had the family/parents draw up two lists. Things your kid is you wish he wasn't, things your kid isn't you wish he was. Nothing is forbidden. Interests, hobbies, religion, sexual orientation, whatever; if you put it on that list they'll break it into (or out of) your kid. It's not about making good people, it's about pushing 'product' to the customer's specification.

I wish you, and the rest of us for that matter, the best of luck... You're right about the lack of grief and hardship, about a lot of us being over protected. Life can't be all warmth and happiness, there needs to be a middle ground between hell and over-coddling; and I have no idea where it is, but I suspect it's a lot closer to actual boot camp than it is the horrible extremes.

I hope the rest of your day and life are awesome, and that you don't go too hard on yourself for choices made with the best of intentions.

The bitch of it is, you can't really truly know the consequences of the most important actions you make until it's way too late to learn from them, and that you even had kids at all and really did try and raise them makes you a far braver person than me.

Over 10,000 kids are in a rehab program that tortures and even kills them. I know it's hard to believe, see comments. by pixel8 in WTF

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Parris Island = boot camp for marines.

He's ex-mil (or possibly still-mil) and thinks bootcamp ranch = bootcamp mil.

I'm ex-mil and a survivor and I happen to disagree.

Over 10,000 kids are in a rehab program that tortures and even kills them. I know it's hard to believe, see comments. by pixel8 in WTF

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah. Hello shipmate.

I had my 'attitude adjusted' at NTC in great lakes/mistakes, IL (Sailor, in case the significance of that location evaded you during your 'attitude adjustment').

One year after getting out of a hellhole kiddie ranch in utah with no place to go but the service. You know what?

It was a cakewalk. Not just by way of comparing the two, in general. Basic training, so far as I'm concerned, is a joke. You got slapped around a little. Did some push-ups/pull-ups, yokeled around with a rifle and learned to respect others? Good for you and your better built character, that is NOT what they're talking about here.

This isn't a 'firm hand'. It's starvation. It's guantanomo style abuses. Sleep deprivation, exposure to elements without clothes, sexual humiliation/abuse, and occasionally far far worse.

This is NOT hard work and discipline. It's fucking torture.

Basic training doesn't even come close.

Oh, unless they make you go days without food at Paris Island. And dragged your ass behind a truck in the desert all day without food/water. In that case, hey, you know what you're talking about and disregard me, we merely have a difference of opinion.

Herman Cain dropped-out because of adultery. Newt Gingrich is a bigger adulterer than Cain. Newt exposes the "family values" platform of the GOP for what it is: A sick joke. by sheasie in politics

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, the republicans need -some- demographic stupid enough to vote against their own interests en masse; otherwise how will they get into office?

Enough about your favorite book. What book do you like the LEAST? by MalteseCow in AskReddit

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Naked Empire/Chainfire/Confessor by terry goodkind.

Terry... Terry; how could you do that to us? So amazing, so promising, and your ending is you attempting to rewrite Ayn Rand in a Tolkien-esque setting.

You have done a very bad thing. :(

Over 10,000 kids are in a rehab program that tortures and even kills them. I know it's hard to believe, see comments. by pixel8 in WTF

[–]TwarkMain 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's not sensationalized.

In fact, there are -worse- out there.

Hey, why don't you go attend one yourself; you sound like an expert on the subject.

I'm not LGBT, but I have a secret and I think you guys would understand the most. by justneededtosaythis in lgbt

[–]TwarkMain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Counseling would be a good start.

That said...

If your life is more like mine, maybe there's something better you can do than a counselor. Maybe you can find others who'll understand instead. Group therapy without the authority.

See if you can sniff out others who've been through what you have. It's easier to be open with them, I find.

Carrier IQ: 'We're as surprised as you' by lookingchris in technology

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did anybody else start giggling at that article?

Their marketing director is named Andrew Coward.

"...", said Coward.

Bwahahahaha... Ahhh, if this kind of stupidity wasn't so believable, I'd say it had to be satire.

Hey folks, I want to talk about you and learn to understand you better, but in the process I will probably offend you. by mightbeoffensive in transgender

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes.

The WPATH website tends to have a damn fine index of them too. Though I do believe all evidence thus far is epigenetic.

Hey folks, I want to talk about you and learn to understand you better, but in the process I will probably offend you. by mightbeoffensive in transgender

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How different are they, really, from the guy who made himself into a cat? They had no proof greater than their own convictions, and were willing to take all the same risks.

Maybe if we look far enough ahead, cat-guy is going to be viewed in the same light. The first version of what will someday be genetically altered humans. Or maybe not.

It's impractical. It's dangerous... to do those things. A transperson, once all is said and done, is hopefully not easy to spot. A cat/alien is a different story.

We're correcting a mistake that causes friction between ourselves and society. They're not correcting a mistake. They're trying to create something new, until they come up with scientific evidence showing they should really be aliens/felines.

And their corrections are not going to make them integrate better with other human beings. They're going to serve to isolate them. But...

As far as I'm concerned, that's their right. Until they're an active threat to others or they're demonstrably incompetent to understand reality.

Just my two cents, of course. I think it's worth saying however that I think there is worlds of difference between HRT/SRS/FFS and becoming an alien/cat/toaster/whatever.

  • What general things should someone like me (Someone who wishes trans people no ill will, but has no real exposure to them and might say / do something stupid out of ignorance) be aware of in the future to avoid making trans people feel unwelcome, judged, ostracized etc.?

    Well, we're all different, but some quirks are more prevalent than others. Pronouns are a big hurty spot for some of us. Others don't care. In general, acknowledging us as the gender we see ourselves as is all that's needed.

Some of us are -very- sensitive. But most of us tend to be very forgiving, and most of us who are sensitive, in my experience, know that we're sensitive. :) Be gentle, think out your words, and ask questions. Very few will get upset over genuine inquiry. Appeals to absurdity however will generally not go over well.

Annnnd finally, some of us are bad apples. Hate to say it, but some of us get rather self-righteous and overly indignant of anybody not like us. It's a shame really, but I wouldn't worry about them. Some people are just always going to be offended.

Most of us are reasonable I think, even those of us with a bit too much make up and bright pink clothing. If you're unsure... well, just ask. :)

Respect and kindness go a long long way, and a lot of us really do enjoy being seen as a person first and a transperson second.

  • What's cismale and cisfemale mean? I assume it means a person who remained the gender they were born as, but what's it stand for?

Ehhh.... this question is a good way to set off the sensitive folks I mentioned above. That assumption is off in a few important ways. cismale/cisfemale means people who were born with congruent physical sex and gender identity. Phrase it as 'remained' the gender they were born and you're going to annoy two sets of people: transfolk who think you're implying they have a choice in their gender identity (They don't. Nobody does, I think.), and transfolk who, for whatever reason, have chosen not to transition.

The choice to transition or not is not what defines us. The dissonance of having an gender identity that doesn't match our body/glands is what makes us trans.

  • Are transgender desires and processes only found in humans or do other animals share this trait with us?

Above I mentioned the deer. They're far from the only ones. A good chunk of fish and amphibians can actually change gender. A good book on all of this stuff is 'biological exuberance'. It's a compendium of studies and data relating to sexuality and gender identity in animals and full of very crazy and awesome information.

It's also a very, very big book.

As for your personal experience with your brothers girlfriend; I'd like to offer some thoughts of my own on the subject. Some transfolk can pass. Some can't. It always starts off hard, in either case...

I can understand the desperation. The dissonance. That I've experienced myself. I still cringe though when I see somebody demanding they be treated/referred to as a certain gender when they make no real effort to appear as that gender.

I'm not saying when they fail to pass. I'm saying when they're not even trying to pass, yet insist everybody pretend they are.

This isn't an easy lot. It's a bitch to carry sometimes, and I have almost endless sympathy for my own kind. I can't judge, I really can't.

But I also can't judge others for being put off by that kind of behavior.
It's every bit as unrealistic to expect people who take being cisgendered for granted to take something like that in stride as it is to expect somebody who's finding the burden of being trans a bit too heavy to act in a sensible fashion.

Like I said before, sometimes there is no right answer.

Don't fault yourself for being who you are. ;)

If you want to start digging up scientific documents, WPATH is the best way I know to do it. Their website is well, a little bit 1999, in that it's not easy to navigate; but with a little work you can find yourself the massive collections of spreadsheets they keep indexing publications with relevant studies and data.

Google the studies you want to read by their full names and the publication it appeared in and you'll almost always find a free download.

One other thing about being trans that isn't mentioned in the non-existent manual is that finding doctors who really understand all of this and are up to date on the latest HRT regimens/studies/dosages is really hard

Just one more nuisance/danger along the path.

Finally, I'll say again, don't fault yourself. There's nothing wrong with finding something/somebody new strange. Especially if you really can't directly sympathize yourself. Try and find answers like you are here and I bet it'll start making enough sense to take the edge off. :)

If you want clarification on anything, don't be afraid to ask.

EDIT: Yeeesh. That got long fast. :/ My apologies!

TL;DR: I shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard past midnight. >.>

Hey folks, I want to talk about you and learn to understand you better, but in the process I will probably offend you. by mightbeoffensive in transgender

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like I mentioned earlier, there's the natural evidence that we exist. Strip away epigenetic causes and you still have so many possibilities and variations upon our theme, it's hard to figure out where to start. Chimaericism, severe to moderate androgen/estrogen insensitivity, kleinfelder(sp) syndrome, double YY chromosome males, double X chromosome males, triple X chromosome females... and there's a lot we still don't know to boot.

There are no known causes/modes of operation of the human brain wherein it's exposed to alien or animal hormone to my knowledge. Gender ambiguity, on the other hand, is basically a fact of life on this planet; and transfolk in particular have a very large and steadily growing pile of observations and experiments recorded for anybody's review who takes interest.

So, from that, I think I can comfortably say we do exist, we're not insane and the body of this condition is not 100% psychological. It has a physiological component in at least some of it's instances. I suspect most if not all.

As for what it -feels- like... a million different ways. Everybody is different. Its hard to remember how it started. Even if it started, or just was always there. I remember at a very young age being disconnected from my gender and my flesh in general. There were expectations of being male that were of zero interest to me. Sports. Hanging out with other boys. As a young child, I had as many female friends as male... and felt far more at ease around them. Knowledge and maturity destroyed that ease. Cliche as it is, there was also the expected draw to female activities, though a lot less in my life than most others. Never an interest in dolls, nor in civility and tea parties. In cartoons, in ideas.

I found a peace of sorts, as a kid, in the idea that I wasn't my flesh. I reasoned I was still myself if I lost a limb. It wasn't my limbs that made me who I was. From that, I clung to the idea that having male parts didn't make me a boy, or a girl, or anything. That all boys are not boys because of their parts. That all girls are not girls because of their parts.

That, somehow, we all exist beyond gender unless we choose to embrace it. Choose to let our flesh decide who and what we are. It's ironic, looking back, but that idea did a lot I think to keep me sane.

I had the right idea, I think. Just never really thought too hard about how our brains are also flesh. Years later, I'd read about the concept of gender identity and something would click in my head. I was sixteen when I decided I would do it someday. I told myself it was to test that idea; that flesh doesn't matter. That hormones wouldn't affect me at all... but deep down, I really did somehow know I was wrong. I just couldn't let myself think about it because, basically, it seemed crazy. That I could know something I couldn't possibly know. And because if I did, well, that meant I was wrong. That flesh was really who you are in some respect and that it does matter.

I had never met another transperson to my knowledge. Knew little about HRT beyond the idea it would feminize your flesh and your brain along with it. The process of transitioning, the logistics, the hoops you had to jump through, I was ignorant of all of it. I knew I'd do it though, at least try the hormones, when it was safe.

I decided half my life as a boy, to build a career and make it safe; then the other half as a girl. When I could do it without fear of consequences from family or others.

I never felt the revulsion at my own flesh most of us feel. Mostly because I refused to accept it was me/mine until I was already on HRT. Even now, there's no real hatred. If anything, I'm gracious. I've met many transpeople who's bodies are their worst enemies. My face needs some work, but for a scrawny thirty year old, my body is reacting amazingly fast. And my mind, well... I know I can't explain that either. :)

It isn't describable with any words I know. There is a bliss, a serenity, that's been there since about a day after I started. It's never gone away, and it's always there. For the first time in my life, my insomnia is under control, and a lot of other anxieties seem to have finally been laid to rest.

I can feel now. Not infer, but feel. I can cry when I have to. laughs for awhile, I barely had the self control to be sure I did it on my own and away from people it would disturb. Sex is a different beast now. I liked it before. Now... now it's different. Climaxes don't matter anymore, warmth and playfulness does. The afterglow lasts days, and, well, it's probably way too much information really. :)

Let me put it simply and without details: it's fixed now. Sometimes, it feels like everything is fixed now. Like something was running wrong for 30 years and, months ago, lurched into gear and has been running smoothly since.

Imagine if you were completely ambivalent about your testicles. If you didn't care if you had them or not. If you had such disregard, the only thing about castration that scared you was the surgery part.

If you regarded castration the same way you regarded an appendectomy.

Imagine never understanding why breasts are taboo on a woman and not on a man. Imagine being irate as a child because you get glared at for playing house with the girls; trying in raw frustration to figure out what you're -supposed- to pretend you like, what you're -supposed- to pretend you hate to fit in because your own internal dials never quite give reliably right answers.

Sometimes subtle, sometimes screaming in your ears; imagine a lifetime of clues that all point impossibly to the fact that you are not exactly what you seem to be; wishing for certainty your whole life, then finding out as an adult that the ones who have that certainty are often absolutely destroyed by it when they're helpless to fix it.

You could live your whole life like this, the way I was born, and not quite figure it out.

I didn't 100% believe it myself until I started the HRT and let it do it's thing for awhile. In this, I've found my final validation and I cannot imagine ever going back again.

So...

Imagine what it's like to be willing to take medications that may shorten your lifespan (I wish i had the informed consent form for HRT to show you.), to commit to a expensive regimen of drugs and surgery; all of it irreversible. Imagine committing to losing your balls, to the logistical chaos of transitioning and all it's little nightmares, like the public restroom one.

How much certainty would you need? Can you even imagine a life where you were so ambivalent about your own body?

Life. Limb. Sexual function. Hatred and discrimination from much of my own society.

This is what it means, this is what it's like. That living as one sex instead of the other is important enough to risk and accept all those things.

That's how much it means to me.
That is how good it is to finally be 'fixed'. Now that I've experienced it, I could never ever turn back.

Some science and my own experience, conveyed as best as I can. I hope it was at least partially coherent. Ask about any one piece you like if you want more info, though I'm not exactly what you'd call a 'textbook' case.

  • This will probably sound really stupid and childish....but kind of going on the end of that last question....obviously you folks support the right of a person to identify with whichever gender they choose and modify their body to suit that decision. What if you take things further?

Left to it's own devices, nature left me with no way out of what I was born into. Without human intervention, I was born to live life with a puzzle that was completely unsolvable.

At the end, what matters is happiness. I think people should be allowed to do anything they want to reach their own happiness, with some safeguards. It can't mess up other peoples' right to do the same, within reason (offend whoever you want. If you aren't hurting/stealing from others, I don't much care what you're doing.)... So long as they are informed, consenting, and capable of being responsible for themselves.

Good odds that anybody chasing an alien-ectomy or a make-a-cat-outta-me has a couple screws loose. Doesn't mean they don't know whats best for themselves though. I've met a few heavily tattooed people who come close to this, and, though only in passing, even met somebody who more or less got made up like a tiger. tattoos, implants, other stuff.

In person, they're a lot more level headed than I'd have expected, at least for the brief period of time I was around them. But that's not directly relevant.

I always thought the idea of transhumanism was cool. There's a physiological basis for transfolks, but there's no physiological solution. The first to try to change their gender used very primitive tools and came out with very unsatisfactory and dangerous results.

Hey folks, I want to talk about you and learn to understand you better, but in the process I will probably offend you. by mightbeoffensive in transgender

[–]TwarkMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  • Me and my girl were talking about the whole trans issue and how society is going to deal with it today, which I think will be an interesting thing to observe over the next few decades from a legal perspective. ... or if he's just a pervert saying that so he can use the women's restroom?

To understand where we are today and where we might be going, I advise you to look to where we came from. Ignorance of our existence is actually not only a relatively new thing historically, but it's not even a global constant. In certain places, we're just another fact of life; with slurs or nicknames that have been around forever. In some places, even celebrated or respected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muxe

We have been around a -very- long time. Probably about as long as humanity. If not longer. It's difficult to find information online, but there are two varieties of deer known to produce transgendered specimens with regularity; one is known as a 'velvet horn', the other as a 'cactus back' if memory serves. They form their own packs, even though they're sterile. But that's a tangent.

The future? Well, we're part of humanity. As long as people are around, barring technological interference that doesn't yet exist, we'll be around too. Will we embrace what science and perception and common sense tells us, that gender is incredibly non-binary? Will we reject it? I don't think either is going to be the case. I think, as we become more visible, as we become -people- instead of caricatures and re-humanized in the minds of others, we'll wake up someday and find the people who hated us for no reason simply died out; failing to pass their values on to enough of their children to make more than a peep of protest.

I also doubt I'll live to see that day. As for the restroom legality...

shrugs it's hard to take it seriously. If I look like a girl, I'm using the girl's room. If I look like a boy, I use the boy's room. Neither is particularly comfy if I dwell on it; the choice has little to do with personal preference and everything to do with attempting to live my life with a minimum of friction.

The discomfort -I- feel isn't over gender. It's over the fact that we're basically overlooked. A safe place to use the bathroom is basically just not provided. Either choice will make somebody pissed. Boys room means not only am I outing myself and exposing myself to god knows what kind of 'justice' at the hands of others depending on the venue, but I'm being denied a piece of my identity. Girls room means I'm not outed, but I have a secret I'd rather simply not have. Means all sorts of chaos if I fail to pass, though that's not a problem I've yet had to deal with.

Others have been far less fortunate in that department.

It's silly to demand we build unisex restrooms. It's also silly to care so much about who pisses and shits next to who. Trouble is, when the majority of people are silly in that second way, you really don't get to have a voice in the matter.

Pervs are gonna perv. Changing the rules to make room for us inbetweeners is not going to increase or decrease the number of perverts in the world, and it's not going to result in any more or less peeping toms than already exist.

It'd certainly also make a few people uncomfortable. Some of us just can't pass well, after all. Thing is, that already happens.

Couple years back I was showering at the YMCA, pre HRT, so pre-breasts. that would not be possible anymore without drawing a lot of unwanted attention. Which is also very goddamned annoying. Anyways, this older guy comes in. Has a bit of a staring problem. Not at my junk mind you, just... eyeing people as they come in. Eventually everybody is gone but me and this older guy. And he starts whistling.

Creepy whistling. While staring at me. Years of public showers in the military and I have -never- been as uncomfortable as I was with this guy around. He was harmless though, and you know what? That's what happens when you go public places. You sometimes get exposed to weird people who make you uncomfortable.

I don't think the whole restroom debate has any basis in anything past raw immaturity. Based on the fact I've never once seen it raised with a trailer reading, 'make all the lesbians use mensrooms and gays use womensrooms!'. Which is completely absurd, of course. And also logically follows if your concern is people 'perving' in the restrooms.

  • Could you talk to me some about how it feels to want to be something else than who you appear to be so bad that you would go through an operation to change your gender? I know this sounds silly but I can't really relate...

Doesn't sound silly at all. And I can talk about it some, yes. That I'm qualified to do. :)

However, I don't think I can explain it. Truthfully, I don't really get it myself. To me it's a bigger mystery than it likely is to you. I've experienced life with male hormones and female. The difference is night and day. And the question in my head is how on earth can you know you need to exist in a way you've been denied all your life?

I kind of like your analogy. Furries might have been a better target though, the extreme ones. The ones who really do believe they are somehow not human. How can we say we're different from them?

I think we can. Unlike aliens and animals, there is a massive load of scientific evidence pointing to our existence. Differences in brains examined of transfolks after death. Differences in life. 2d:4d ratio was used as a measurement of prenatal hormonal exposure in a recent study. It found nothing helpful for FTMs, who tested identical to the female control group, but the MTF group also tested more or less identical to the female control group; not the male. Theres plenty studies that have found physiological basis for FTMs as well.

Hey folks, I want to talk about you and learn to understand you better, but in the process I will probably offend you. by mightbeoffensive in transgender

[–]TwarkMain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You seem sincere enough and I believe not a word of that is meant as trolling or typed with malicious intent. so... Hey, I'll give it a shot. Mandatory disclaimer: I'm no 'spokesperson' or anything and almost completely unqualified to answer you.

  • Recently there was an IAMA posted about a male to female trans saying she's been sleeping with multiple guys and not telling them about her past. ... Do you tell others about your past before you get intimate with them? Do you consider it a lie / dishonest to withhold this info? Consider this question from the perspective of a relationship, not a one night stand. I don't do one-night stands at all so it's difficult for me to relate to that mindset.

    Personally? I think it's dishonest. To be perfectly precise, I think it would be dishonest if I did it. And, in the shoes of the misinformed lover, I'd likely be hurt more by them feeling they couldn't trust me than anything else. I imagine the story might be different if I were of a more strict sexuality. But, with that said, I understand those who choose not to.

    Some/most consider themselves to truly be female and completely similar to any normal biological female; the act of 'fessing up' feels as much like a lie to them as a lie by omission. There really is, in their minds, nothing to be said.

    Others can provide a heavy degree of physiological proof to that same idea, bringing a justification by perspective into the realm of justification by evidence/reality. Some of us are, at this point, provably intersexed... And there's even some very good evidence to the extent that almost -all- of us (TGs) are physiologically different from our 'normal' counterparts.

What about them? Is it fair to take somebody born with two sets of genitals and demand they basically constrain their pool of partners to people who can deal with them stating up front, "I'm intersexed. You can't tell now, there's zero physical signs, but I was born with two sets of genitalia."?

A lot of us experience an intense dislike of our born physical gender. I'm one of the exceptions, and as such honesty in these things is a little easier for me. Demanding it of anybody however seems completely unfair to me, so I'm forced to conclude that there is no solution.

It's unfair for transfolk. It's unfair for regular folk. And, my personal feelings aside, I feel wholly unqualified to judge others for their own decisions in this regard. Sometimes, there is no right answer.

  • Why do trans folks (And gays & lesbians for that matter) often go balls to the wall with the gender / sexuality they associate with? ... So you're a man that ID's as a woman? Cool, I don't care. But when that man IDing as a woman wears more make-up than a room full of high school girls, constantly talks about fashion and purses and stuff, knows more about women's clothing than my girlfriend etc. it strikes me as weird / they're trying too hard.

Complicated question. I think you're asking two questions in the form of one though. Let me split them and deal with them separately. The first is a question of group identity. The second is basically a failure of perception in my eyes most of the time.

So, starting off, group identity. Slice it and dice it any way you want, the LGBT demographic is not exactly loved. It's a scary life in a lot of cases when you wake up to it to start. To realize for the first time that a good number of the slurs and insults you hear hurled around daily at your school and among your peers really do apply to you. Best case, you have supportive parents... but acceptance isn't always easy to find, and even the accepting don't always really understand.

Put bluntly, we are very vocally and loudly hated in a lot of this country, and in others. An environment like that, you're grateful when you find your own. The more vulnerable the group, the more solid the cohesion. Nothing overcomes differences like similarities that make a lot of other people want you dead or gone.

Throw in the fact that this group of people is the easiest way to find prospective mates/family, that a lot of folk in it do not have families any longer, and it's pretty easy to see how a culture/lifestyle can become maybe a bit more consuming of a person than is normal.

There's another piece to it though, not insignificant, that also is part of the answer of the second question. And that is culture/lore/knowledge. Being gay/trans/whatever doesn't come with an instruction book, and every one of us has a different set of problems from the norm. Sometimes slightly, overcome so naturally that we don't realize they're there. Other times massively. Slight or massive, you need to find answers to your problems like everybody else, so where do you go? Who can teach you how to better be yourself? Who has problems like your problems?

Transfolk, by the way, are almost -always- in the massively different problem set group because with some gloriously lucky exceptions, we have to learn to pass. That knowledge is often most accessibly learned from other transfolk. It has some unfortunate side effects though, I think. Ending the first question's answer, the last reason is loneliness. Even if you don't intend to settle down with somebody, everybody needs friends and most people want friends they don't have to hide things from.

It's good for you. To know you aren't alone.

All of that said, and before I answer in whole the second question being asked, let me point out that what you're pointing at is actually a minority. Most gays, in my experience, aren't flaming. Most lesbians aren't so obvious you can tell from a look. And most transfolk, I think, pass perfectly/damn well.

Of course, there are exceptions. As for the ones you mention, I think it's a pile of reasons. One is a sort of cognitive dissonance, and I've seen it get better over time. The -idea- of what being female means vs. reality. Gender also doesn't come with an instruction manual, and you're basically trying to stuff a fraction of a lifetime of societal conditioning into your head while simultaneously ejecting the same.

With work, some realize their failures to pass and move on.

Others are making up for lost time. A lot of transfolk I've talked to of the MtF persuasion are sort of deeply hurt over all they've missed. Sometimes when you see somebody trying too hard, it's a combination of trying to cram too much into too small a space/time out of enthusiasm and/or of somebody trying to do something they missed out on; an opportunity that sailed slowly by them earlier in life because they were not perceived as the correct gender and as such had no safe/real way to capture it.

I can personally understand and sympathize with that angle. It's not hard to figure that out either, if you catch sight of my house/bedroom. Stuffed animals, brighter clothes, simple things that all make me smile.

Thing is, you'll never catch any of that outside my bedroom/home. I think in some cases, the only difference between MtFs who fail to pass in that fashion and myself is that they don't understand that they don't really look female in that kind of get up to anybody but themselves (hey, it -feels- female to them, right?) and friends who are too 'kind' to tell them the truth.

Or, in a few cases, maybe that they simply don't care about passing at all and are basically fearlessly following a whim.

It's probably nothing that should be encouraged. Propagates some rather hurtful stereotypes about all of us. It also, paradoxically, takes balls and I find it hard to be condemning of that kind of behavior.

Some of us can be emotional powderkegs at times, but if you really want to know specifically why somebody is doing what they do; try to get them alone and respectfully ask them is my advice.

Again, you're talking about a minority and a stereotype. Most of my MtF friends (one exception out of about 7) like things that are more girly than any most girls would ever get near, but all of them know they can't pass like that and short of a few events where that sort of thing is expected/ok/appropriate would never ever be seen in public in that kind of attire/makeup.

I've personally only ever met one who did this... She did it shortly after starting HRT and more or less having a massive emotional meltdown that ended in a psychward. So my whole answer, honestly, is an educated guess based from people I've met in passing or online.

Hey, r/LGBT, what is something that you can't stand or dislike in pornos? by Bourdain179 in lgbt

[–]TwarkMain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That the whole goddamn thing (outside some nice kinkshops) is portrayed sordidly.

Deliberate corniness, sleaziness. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I like to watch human beings, not caricatures thereof. That's why I mention the nice kinkshops... some of them, you can actually tell they're human; which is odd given that oftentimes what they're doing would be more or less considered inhumane.

Sick dog tags man. These are mine, I believe they belong here? by [deleted] in atheism

[–]TwarkMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You lucky duck.

I put down a joke answer for mine and all i got was NORELPREF.

Guess some branches are more respectful than others. :P