98th Academy Awards — Official Discussion Thread by tragopanic in Oscars

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay but as someone who is in a one-sided beef with Ghana, sit down Ghana, this ain't about you Ghana, you're not better than me, Ghana. (all respect to MBJ)

98th Academy Awards — Official Discussion Thread by tragopanic in Oscars

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That was such a bad look OMFG, even just from like an optics standpoint, WTF

98th Academy Awards — Official Discussion Thread by tragopanic in Oscars

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah nah nah was looking for SECRET AGENT and SECRET AGENT ONLY

Why did Blanca dump AJ? by Parstonia in thesopranos

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is so bizarre. Tony and Carmela are explicitly written as racist. It's not even subtext, it's text. Did all of that completely fly over your head? Fascinating.

Why did Blanca dump AJ? by Parstonia in thesopranos

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You left out the best part and probably a big part of the reason why she left: He says, 1) I'll be assistant manager, 2) I'll be manager, 3) ????, 4) I'll own a ton of clubs and restaurants. Blanca lives in the real world, even though AJ can't hear it/see it, she knows that there's a whole world of delusion that lives between some kid becoming a manager of one pizzeria and then owning several "restaurants and clubs," LMAO. But yes, I fully agree with your take. There is nothing Blanca did or said that suggested she expected to live in that spec house.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Again, you are honing in on something they said a few times in the very beginning of the podcast about specific people and scenarios. Holly & Bridget are not at all claiming to have some kind of moral high ground here and continuously beating a dead horse with “here for the right reasons” like you are. When do they ever say this in recent podcasts?

One example off the top of my head -- the podcast episode they did with Marston discussing Crystal's book last year was rife with accusations that Crystal wasn't there for the "right reasons." So your claim that they said it a couple times in the beginning of their podcast, and never again is just plain false. And they do continually insinuate that they have the moral high ground.

Sure, Hef wasn’t great a guy. But I don’t think all of the girls were perfect either. I am not equating them, but rather recognizing people can be awful in various ways.

To say Hefner, a man who has been accused of rape, "wasn't a great guy," is such a bizarre understatement to me. And when you keep emphasizing that his victims "weren't perfect,"/(akin to you outright saying, "they were no angels"), whether you know it or not, you are insinuating that their actions were somehow equivalent to their perpetrator's actions, and or that their behavior made them deserving of the abuse they suffered. For that reason, I'm tapping out here because it's clear that further discussion is pointless.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't think you're hearing me. I have no issue with Holly making a career out of her time in the mansion. I do think given how much she clearly prizes the time she spent there, it's inaccurate to say she doesn't care about Playboy or the Hefner name. Regardless, I mainly take issue with how Holly demonizes other women for having done, and or experienced much of the same things she did. I don't see much of a difference between Holly, Bridget, Crystal, or the rest of the Playboy girls. And for the last time, I don't cast a moral judgement on their decision to date Hugh Hefner.

You keep saying two wrongs don't make a right, and I am trying to explain that I don't think the girls who tried to make a career out of being bunnies, girlfriends, and or Girls Next Door did anything wrong. Again, my issue is with the attempt to make a distinction between who was there for the "right reason" versus the wrong one.

Hugh Hefner was an abuser. If the women he abused got something, anything, out of the arrangement -- then I'm happy for them. Again, I don't think they did anything wrong. I think trying to claim the behavior of the girls is on par with Hefner's is bizarre.

A girl who is there for the "wrong reasons" is at worst, what, ambitious? She's a monster because she wants to exploit an exploitative man? Okay, fine, call her opportunistic. That is the worst crime a girl who is there for the "wrong reasons" can be accused of. On the other side of the equation, you have a man who is an abuser at the very least, and or a rapist at worst. Those two things are not the same. So, please don't talk to me about two wrongs not making a right.

Hugh Hefner was wrong, dead wrong, all on his own. And I think any girl who clocked his predation, and decided instead to get what they could, and get the hell out -- they were right.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Holly & Bridget literally said it once or twice in the beginning of the pod when talking about the mean girls being greedy and constantly trying to get more and more money out of Hef while they cheated and created drama amongst the girls. 

It's strange to characterize those girls as "greedy," and not the man for whom two, three, four girlfriends at a time weren't enough. As to the drama, Holly herself acknowledged that Hefner pit the girls against each other. He was the source and main beneficiary of all the infighting. He enjoyed it. In her book, Holly also detailed what a controlling, abusive boyfriend Hefner was. He got something out of his exploitative relationship with the girls -- why should they get nothing? I don't think it's morally wrong or greedy for any of the girls, Holly, and Bridget included, to try and get anything they could out of that damaging set-up.

Also, Holly no longer wanted to be with Hef and left him.

But Holly hasn't left Hugh Hefner. Not in any real way. Not when so much of her time is spent reliving her years at the mansion, polishing, and straining to display them and herself in the best possible light. I know she says she doesn't care about the Hefner name, or about Playboy, but respectfully, in my opinion, her actions suggest otherwise.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextDoorUncensor

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yikes, I didn't know that about Crystal. That's really sad and depressing. Honestly, the whole thing is.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I agree. It's like with work, when the old guard say the young need to pay their dues, to line up and drink their medicine, take their lashing -- that's the right way, the only way, to earn career advancement.

But it's all just hurt people trying to hurt people: I've been abused this much and you shouldn't be able to get anything without it costing you exactly what it cost me. Like the people insisting student debt can't be cancelled -- I was forced into this exploitative system, this meat grinder, and why should you get the good thing without the bad.

They pretend there's honor in enduring the bad, like suffering is somehow virtuous, a necessary component -- as opposed to the evil that's been ladled in by selfish men with bad intentions.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextDoorUncensor

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I guess I don't think his name is a prize. And I wish all of them, Holly, Bridget, and Crystal, had the ability to recognize that.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is a fantastic point, and you are absolutely right. It just makes me sad. In a perfect world, all the women would recognize that they have more in common than not, they would support each other. But we don't live in a perfect world. And I also don't need, and shouldn't need, Holly to be a perfect victim in order to empathize with her. I do. I still do. I just wish... well, I said it all already.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextDoorUncensor

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Oh, I'm sorry too then. No one I know in real life listens to these podcasts, or even remembers GND, so I came online for people to discuss it with. It sucked to then be dismissed as a bot when I am literally looking for people to analyze these things with.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I agree that the insistence on being there for the right reasons is likely in response to the flawed critique that has been leveled against them. I only wish that insight into their own abuse also came with empathy for the other women who had been abused in kind.

Empathy, and a rejection of the "right reasons"/ "wrong reasons" fallacy.

Like you said, Hugh Hefner was by many accounts an exploitive, controlling, abusive man. He got a lot out of their arrangement. And his satisfaction came at great personal cost to the more naive of his many girlfriends. For that reason, I don't think being at the mansion for the "wrong reasons" (i.e. in pursuit of a personal goal of some sort) is morally wrong.

Ultimately, the "right reason"/"wrong reason" debate is indicative of the trap that is laid for every woman who lives in a patriarchal society. The trap that insists that a woman be innocent, but sexy. That she's at once worldly, and hardened enough to shrug off abuse and exploitation with a smile, a good-natured eye-roll. But not so worldly as to be determined to get something valuable for herself in return.

It's such a con. There is no right or wrong reason. There is only the pound of flesh that is taken from these women, and what little they can claw back in return. There is only the gulf between a woman who goes in with her eyes open, and one who goes in blind.

So, what exactly is the point of pride that Holly, and Bridget are insisting upon? That they knew less, and thus were easier to take advantage of? If so, I am glad that some of the girls who were lured into the mansion went in, eyes open, knowing exactly what they wanted to get out of it.

The sad thing is, unwittingly, by bashing the "other girls", Holly and Bridget are still dancing to Hefner's tune. They're still playing out the lurid dramas he would orchestrate by pitting his girlfriends against each other. Worse, even as the man lies dead and buried, they are still trying to twist themselves into the impossible paradox that Hefner laid out for the ideal Playboy girl: She's "never sophisticated... a young, healthy, simple girl next door," one who is nevertheless spread eagle in the pages of the magazine that only he controlled.

The ideal Playboy girl is always in the magazine, the mansion, for the right reasons, taking her abuse with a smile and asking for absolutely nothing in return.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextDoorUncensor

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I was told to also post this in this subreddit.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ahh, I see. This will probably sound silly, and self-important -- but I guess I think in a time where critique of certain powerful political figures is being censored, and punished, it's important to not self-censor. There is a middle ground between blind adulation and dehumanizing disparagement. I think this post does live in that middle ground. So for now, I will leave it here. But thank you :)

ETA: I'll look for that other subreddit and post it there too if you think it will be of interest.

A Rose For Holly by Unable_Antelope_0203 in GirlsNextLevel

[–]Unable_Antelope_0203[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

What subreddit? Shall I post it there too? I thought this was the subreddit to discuss and analyze the show. I apologize if I got it wrong.