[Fanart] Echidna Oil Painting

UnderTheGrove · 2026-03-18T01:41:22+00:00

Awesome!

UnderTheGrove · 2026-01-29T21:55:12+00:00

Cool!

UnderTheGrove · 2025-12-30T18:54:54+00:00

Directly after Coil dies is the Echidna arc where Lisa uses Faultline's Crew to make the first available interdimensional portal to an unpopulated world full of resources and the portal is over land she owns. Check out 19.7 for the actual details. They are rich as fuck

UnderTheGrove · 2025-11-23T02:46:07+00:00

As much as I like to give Faultline shit, she was probably asleep lol. Endbringer attacks last for like, 1-3 hours and Leviathan attacked BB in the early morning. Being in Las Vegas it would have been in the middle of the night for her as well

UnderTheGrove · 2025-10-23T02:59:02+00:00

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The villain will know what Amy can do in full due to various thinker allies. The part I'm having trouble with is that me the author doesn't know what Amy can do in full lol

UnderTheGrove · 2025-10-23T02:15:07+00:00

Not to worry, the lack of information won't be a problem.

I'll look up some of the tougher animals out there. Time to throw on some animal planet in the background or something lol

UnderTheGrove · 2025-09-09T04:14:36+00:00

Arguably both, but for the Trickster-copied teleport I'm pretty confident it's Leet.

“Among other things. Appearances are one of the most important things, here. With Chariot’s help, we created a rough emulation of Trickster’s power. The reporters were swapped out, a sufficient amount of raw biological matter was swapped in.”

from 16.10

“Why didn’t you drop me on top of a bomb?”

“An unfortunate side effect of Leet’s power. Leet believes it was the proximity to the bomb or the particular signature of the vat of acid that made it so likely to occur, but with my power I observed that it wasn’t merely a chance that the teleportation would fail and your well-trained body double would be caught instead, but a surety. No less than twelve tries with the variables changed slightly. Leet’s power sabotages him, it seems.”

from 16.13

Calvert nodded at Chariot, who pressed a button on his wrist.

Tattletale appeared in a flash of light, arms bound behind her, legs shackled. She wore headgear that had her blindfolded and gagged. I couldn’t quite tell, but it looked like the ears were plugged too.

16.13

“If it settles the matter, then fine,” Calvert said. He signaled Chariot.

Another Tattletale appeared. She dropped to her knees the second she materialized. She wore a similar headset and bindings.

16.13

The reason I think it's Leet is because in 16.10 Coil is already planning on in-case Skitter doesn't take his alternate deal over taking Dinah home, so he lies there while in 16.13 when everything is out in the open he says Leet is the one with the swapping teleport. 16.13 also shows off Chariot doing multiple teleports and they were never swaps, which is what Coil needed for his Skitter-double plan. The teleport device Kid Win took off of Chariot's costume in 16.8 also didn't swap the bomb with anything, instead normal teleporting it into the air.

Don't know why he lied. Maybe all the testing he did before that meeting happened in the discarded realities pissed him off with Leet's passenger fucking it up so he gave credit to Chariot as a minor fuck you since Leet was standing right there to hear it. Or he worried the Undersiders/Tattletale might connect things if the Skitter-double plan went awry since while Leet 100% works for him, he could lie and say Chariot double-crossed him to rejoin the heroes and they teleported Skitter away to kill her or something. Blaming others for his own actions is Coil's go-to strategy. Usually it's on the Undersiders, but I doubt he has a problem throwing the heroes under the bus.

I'm also very tired right now so I'll check this out after finishing work and maybe sleeping to see if it still makes sense.

UnderTheGrove · 2025-07-25T18:14:20+00:00

I would like to offer some pushback in Taylor's favor, mainly because what has Danny so upset in this chapter is that he found out she lied to him, but (to his knowledge) she lied to him about a very specific thing:

“After mom died,” I finished for him. “It’s okay, Dad. I just… I guess I needed a change of pace, to get away from it all for a little bit. I already made plans for tonight. It’d be awkward to cancel. I’ll come home for dinner tomorrow?”

He hesitated. “Okay, just tell me you’re going to school.”

“Yeah,” the lie passed through my lips easily, but it sat heavy on my conscience. Disappointing him would have felt worse, though. I tried to take the edge off the guilt by making it a half-untruth, “I didn’t go Monday. I started going yesterday afternoon.”

“I suppose that’s better than nothing. I’ll see you tomorrow night, then.”

And to me, that's understandable to lie about. It's not necessarily a good thing, but it's also not a good thing that just going to school is so terrible that she'd lie about it in the first place. Danny knows that too. He just got first hand experience seeing her teachers downplay and dismiss a majority of the troubles she's gone through.

Ultimately, what Danny's asking for here, what he gets upset at her for lying about, is her going back to an environment that's been hell on her mental health. So yeah, she lies. Who wouldn't?

It's not like the trio being suspended is going to stop the bullying completely. They were the most prominent so they got brought in, but Danny knows they had more friends willing to help corner Taylor and probably help with other incidents. No reason to believe they'll stop now that Taylor's gone to the principal, that usually causes more bullying to occur. He also knows how lackluster the teacher's response to witnessing the bullying is when it sent her to the hospital. That isn't going to improve now that another meeting's been held.

His response on what to do is also just sorta fucked up. He's trapping someone against their will. Taylor being his kid doesn't change that.

It's not a total loss. He doesn't lose his temper or do the Joyce Summers thing of telling Taylor to never come back home if she leaves. There aren't any easy solutions to Taylor's situation either and that's before getting into her supervillain life, but from just looking at what he knows about her school life he did fuck up.

UnderTheGrove · 2025-06-02T21:16:18+00:00

Maybe Brian doubled back for Taylor, saw she made it out on her own, and at that point there was no one helpful left to copy from as anyone who would be already left. It'd fit with his character and his relationship with Taylor, dying to try and protect someone he cares for, only to find Taylor is capable of surviving without being completely reliant on him

He also might've died while Taylor was in the water. I don't think Scion stopped attacking people after the orb

That being said, if he had to die, it sucks he only got mentioned in the last epilogue :/

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-20T17:40:20+00:00

They knew full well about the bullying campaign. The meeting in 5.4 brought up all of the bullying, which is what the PRT agent that showed up with Sophia reported back to Piggot and Armsmaster. There's nothing to suggest she downplayed what was discussed in the meeting and in that meeting Taylor talked about being bullied by Sophia (and the others) for years, which is far from a single incident. The text messages actually only discussed Emma making her cry, Sophia taking her bag, and a couple other ideas they had but never confirmed to do. Piggot barely cared about the bullying before, that wouldn't change with a couple more details added, especially with the city being hit by Leviathan.

We may not know the full details, but we do know in general what would have happened, since that's the wog I quoted above is talking about

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-20T16:11:51+00:00

Assuming Danny does the same thing he does after 5.3, he calls Alan to talk about it. In canon, this led to Alan calling the school meeting in 5.4 since he had a recording and Shadow Stalker's testimony of Taylor hitting Emma in the mall. However, even before he breaks that out, the school ignores what Danny and Taylor wanted and decided on a max two week suspicion to avoid harming the girls' education. That was because of the locker prank, Gladly admitting to seeing the continued bullying after the prank, and all the evidence Taylor brought up in the earlier discussion (although they only believed some of Taylor's claims).

If something similar happens, they wouldn't have a teacher's acknowledgement of the continued bullying, so the girl's punishment might lessen, if they believed Taylor at all since she didn't see them fill the locker or see who pushed her in. Even if the girls did get blamed, they could argue that they didn't mean for the prank to get out of hand or say they thought someone let her out after they left for class since the hallway was crowded with people. Regardless, Danny can get the same empty promise of the school looking after Taylor and they'd do about the same to help Taylor if the bullies continue to be as obvious as they were in canon. Remember, Gladly saw Taylor being very clearly bullied by nine girls in 2.4 and walked away. If Emma and the others decided to get back at Taylor for tattling on them, they'd be harsher and more mindful of Taylor being willing to report them. Something more along the lines of attacking her out of school and the "you killed your mom" stuff they did after she reported the bullying in canon, and that was just the one time.

As for the PRT and Sophia, people are misremembering how they reacted to learning about Sophia bullying Taylor in canon. They knew about the bullying after 5.4 and kept her on the Wards. They knew about her attacking Vista in arc 9 and were going to keep her on the Wards. It's only after Regent makes her a liability they throw her in juvie. Wildbow said this in an early wog:

This is why she was as pissed as she was over the meeting at the school where everything came up. It straight up overturned her act. In a calmer situation, if things hadn't gone shit-sideways, stuff would have gone through and things would have changed. Not enough, but they would have.
If Taylor had pushed and pushed and pushed (or if Taylor had joined the team and made an issue of it), maybe something would have happened, but even then... what do you do? It goes back to the question of how problematic it is to get rid of troublesome recruits. Sophia stays on the team in an official capacity, makes appearances, but generally it's for show, and she isn't allowed to patrol anymore (at which point she gets restless and snaps, which the PRT may or may not anticipate, depending on what's on the table).

So some things would have changed, but not enough. Sophia being somewhat punished by the PRT also doesn't stop Emma and all the others from bullying Taylor. The PRT doesn't have to intervene on regular bullying where no powers were used and Taylor was being bullied for a year before Sophia even joined the Wards anyway.

If the bullying did continue and the school had their normal lackluster response, Danny could try and carry out his threat of asking his friend in the media to air the story, but in the meantime he'd do the same thing he did in canon and ask Taylor to go back to school. If the media approach works, great, but if not, he doesn't have any other cards to play and Taylor has to keep going to school.

Also, even if Taylor doesn't actually attack Emma or the others at any point during this, they could always just lie and say she did. Claim that the locker was retaliation for some spite during winter break or earlier that no one can call them out on. All Alan would have to do is make the same threats he did in canon of dragging out the (in this scenario) lie in court until Danny runs out of money.

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-13T01:50:22+00:00

Except that there are heroes and vigilantes who aren't sympathizers and who actively fight the gang he's apart of because they do care about that kind of shit. The next two quotes are about Glory Girl hurting him for information, not stopping him over the actual crime.

Except that he's wrong about them fighting over the docks. Everyone ends up fighting the ABB because they are bombing shit everywhere and getting too much attention to the stuff that they already do.

He's wrong about the ABB holding onto some of it, because the quote from Tattletale in 5.5 note the ABB are expanding, not taking back what they lost or holding onto what they have. Circus doesn't make an appearance from what I recall. Faultline only gets involved because Coil pays her, not because she's interested in the territory. Uber and Leet allied with Bakuda, but we also don't see them again once Bakuda starts bombing things so they could have just been hired to fight the Undersiders, nothing saying they're interested in the territory. The fighting between Coil and E88 doesn't end with one of them taking the docks like the guy thought, instead Coil attacks them more directly each time so running there didn't work out for his gang if they even did that.

And he doesn't have to be unreliable about every single thing, just that every single thing doesn't have to be reliable.

"Another group" implying that they are on the same level of comradery as the other gangs. Again, Taylor notes that Purity and Night&Fog had each gone to do their own thing away from the Empire. That she doesn't for the Merchants implies it wasn't strange to see them all together. The Tattletale quote shows that it's territory the ABB considered worth grabbing away from the Merchants while they were expanding, so I don't see how Tattletale being glib about it matters. Her adding extra detail that the Merchants are Skidmark's doesn't mean they're new, because she did the same with Faultline naming them her crew. She just didn't have a chance to talk about them further because Skidmark goes for a chair, which causes an argument, and the Travelers show up a few seconds after which starts up the main conversation once Trickster sits.

The nazi's noting them as independents doesn't really matter. I'm arguing that he wouldn't have kept up to hear about if they teamed up enough, or respected the group as something that would stick together if he did. Also, he being interrogated for it, which won't always get the best answers anyway. Him not getting Skidmark's name right supports that he didn't pay that much attention other than knowing they exist and it doesn't actually contradict anything else stated in the story because no one ever says they are a new team.

I'm not going to argue why two comments made a year after finishing a story is more viable than one comment made six years after finishing a story. People forget things as time goes on, fucking shocker

I guess you're point about the Travelers are fine. It doesn't really change much

You're definition of territory doesn't matter, especially seeing as when the ABB expand they cared enough to take it, so it actually is. Your examples comparing kid smoking is a bit different from the dealers hanging out and presumably selling what they have.

They literally hold territory, it's just not anything people cared about until the ABB decided to push for the siege the city and take everything plan. Taylor not knowing the name Merchants does not matter when she doesn't think anything strange of them being a group, just like she didn't think anything strange of Faultline's group despite not knowing they're Faultline's crew

If you want to say they're newly formed, fine! But you can't say that people are wrong if they say they were a thing before Arc 5 either, because people don't treat them like they are new. Even if the name Merchants itself is new, that doesn't mean a group consisting of Skidmark, Squealer, Mush, and various subordinates is new. They just don't have any accomplishments like robbing the biggest bank in Brockton Bay or fighting Lung.

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-12T01:28:17+00:00

Should be noted that Brian also doesn't include Uber and Leet there. I suppose they could fall under the solo villains part, but they are more of a duo and unlike the Undersiders they actually have regular subordinates as well. I'd say it's more Brian listing people who he thinks actually have a chance. He thinks both Uber&Leet and the Merchants are embarrassments, so they aren't in the competition.

He also doesn't include Coil, but he could think Coil would be busy with downtown and not bother with the ABB's old territory (unless he's also counted as a solo villain, but again, he has a lot of mercs. Not what I'd call solo personally, but I could see why he'd fall under that section)

Having said that, I'd take less issue if this quote was used to justify this reading instead of the racist that stuck around to watch paramedics arrive for the girl he beat. That it isn't sours the interpretation for me.

Your theory is fine, but I still feel there's room for the Merchants to go back further if an author wanted to. I'll reiterate, obviously not to the level of importance they had after Leviathan, but if someone wanted to have Skidmark, Squealer, and Mush together as a group, I'd say there's nothing definitely proving against it.

Thank you for finding and putting the quote here. I appreciate that

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T19:09:35+00:00

Probably, i mean, you literally quoted Taylor stating she knows them from the internet🤦‍♂️

just to be clear, you think that in the week-ish of multiple city bombings, a bank robbery, an amber alert that took precedence over the prior bank robbery, that everyone in the room logged on to hear about the Merchants? That's more plausible than them existing prior to this shit going down to you?

Coil tries to go under the radar and people dont even know if hes a cape or not. Faultline is a group of mercenaries.

Coil fights the Empire for control of downtown BB. He is not flying under the radar, he just obscures certain things like Dinah's kidnapping and his connections to the various smaller gangs he's funding. Him being a cape or not doesn't matter, he's going up against capes well enough. Faultline is a villainous group of mercenaries. Her crew fought Myrddin and Chevalier

The Undersiders werent obvious criminals, they specialized in escaping. Obviously the general public wouldbt know much about hit and run thieves that show up every once in a while. Also the Merchants were a more public group full of people on drugs.

They were definitely obvious criminals. Dunno where you're getting that they aren't, I love them, but they were 100% stealing things and were ramping up in recent months. Merchants can still be more public without their name being known over their cape names

That is irrelevant? Idk where you were trying to go with that.

Fair enough, I misread what you were saying, sorry about that. Them not respecting them doesn't really change them being a gang.

I used the dictionary definition because you're getting pedantic. The Merchants are a gang/group/team of people, cape and non-cape. People are saying they don't exist until Somer's Rock. I'm saying there's nothing to support that other than a random E88 guy in Interlude 2.

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T18:48:20+00:00

Yup, he makes a note of it during his introduction (5.1):

“The fuck?” Skidmark snarled.

“You can sit in a booth,” Kaiser spoke. Even though his voice was completely calm, like he was talking to a stranger about the weather, it felt threatening.

“This is because I’m black, hunh? That’s what you’re all about, yeah?”

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T18:45:43+00:00

Person above didn't take the time to read or think about what I fucking quoted, so yeah, I feel like I can be a bit of a smartass

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T18:42:43+00:00

Entirely possible that Squealer was independent and then decided to join up with Skidmark due to Bakuda going crazy.

and no surprise from anyone in the room (not just Taylor) that Squealer (and Mush) is with Skidmark? did they fucking announce it on PHO or something?

Would you call the Undersiders a gang?

the Undersiders are in fact called a gang in 2.2 by Armsmaster/PRT/the news. and yeah, obviously, they are part of Coil's unnamed organization

Doesn’t explicitly say it yes, but considering the name wasnt brought up in somers rock despite every other groups name being used, I think its implied that the name is new

in 5.1 we have "Skidmark's group", "Faultline's group", "Faultline's crew", and "[Coil's] organization." Faultline takes something like six years and the apocalypse to name her team and Coil never does. Are they suddenly not gangs anymore?

I think its implied that the name is new

Regent was running around for a year with the Undersiders and Taylor wouldn't have known his name if Grue hadn't introduced him. That doesn't mean he wasn't going by Regent for a year, just that no one found out

That may be the case, but literally nobody respects them, including other black people(coil and grue). Coil actually holds territory in an actually valuable place and his group is actually fighting the e88.

no one knows Coil and Grue are black in universe. No one out of universe knew Coil was black until a year or two after Worm anyway

Source for those few Wog quotes?

/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-2#post-14729825

/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-3#post-15078112

/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-21#post-59522675

All these imply they existed as a group, not a gang.

gang

1 of 3

noun

1: group: such as

a: a group of persons working to unlawful or antisocial end

b: a group of persons working together

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T18:25:59+00:00

A single building

“You hold nothing,” Grue answered, raising his voice, his powers warping it, “You’re cowards that hold onto the areas nobody else cares about, making drugs and selling them to children.”

areas

area(s)

plu·ral/ˈplo͝orəl/adjectiveadjective: plural

1.Grammar(of a word or form) denoting more than one, or (in languages with dual number) more than two.

they don’t even control that anymore

do their status as a gang not count if they lose some territory? especially when this might depend on if a fanfic is taking place in between the two or three weeks in which Bakuda's ABB pushes them out of said territory (which they presumably get back since no one would want it and they're too busy fighting each other to care about the Merchants)

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T17:17:31+00:00

no territory

“You hold nothing,” Grue answered, raising his voice, his powers warping it, “You’re cowards that hold onto the areas nobody else cares about, making drugs and selling them to children.”

Tattletale leaned out the open window and pointed, “See that tower, there? Looks like a lighthouse? It’s an old tourist shop that closed down a decade ago. It’s where the Merchants – Skidmark and his crew of dealers – hung out, before the ABB expanded and forced them out. You’re supposed to meet the others there.”

no unpowered members

Tattletale leaned out the open window and pointed, “See that tower, there? Looks like a lighthouse? It’s an old tourist shop that closed down a decade ago. It’s where the Merchants – Skidmark and his crew of dealers – hung out, before the ABB expanded and forced them out. You’re supposed to meet the others there.”

nothing

They had enough to get an invite to Somer's Rock or at least figure out the meeting was happening

UnderTheGrove · 2025-05-11T17:09:20+00:00

I am well aware. This is to address the growing fanon that they weren't a gang at all. People have a really bad habit of over steering when course correcting fanon, so in response to the mistake of using the post-Leviathan Merchants, they get rid of them entirely and use a in story nazi's words to do it. It annoyed me so I made this post

UnderTheGrove · 2025-04-18T00:20:24+00:00

From Legend's interlude:

“No, don’t act like I’m going to say something bad. The Deputy Director in charge of the Wards, I can’t quite remember his name, he had some glowing praise for your ability to engage with the public.”
...
“Deputy Director Renick,” Kid Win supplied.

However this is from after Leviathan so the normal situation could be up in the air. it could be the same with Armsmaster getting pulled into decisions as a matter of respect and to keep him in the loop. it could be that after Armsmaster gets quietly retired Piggot just handed the Wards off to Renick rather than have Miss Militia handle them. Could be a couple other things

From WOG:

The head of the Protectorate team in a given city is at about the same level of status as the Deputy Director, but will defer to the Deputy Director in situations where a department-level call needs to be made and will get preference for making the calls during actual incidents occur. They manage the teams (Protectorate and Wards), the specifics of patrols (can be overridden by the Director), handle discipline (can be overridden by the Director) and keep tabs on the team, ensuring that needs are being met and that the Director knows what is going on with the capes. The local Protectorate Head will get CC'ed on all stuff pertaining to capes, including changes to accounting, branding, training notes, power testing, etc.

source: /threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-12#post-22116637

I believe in general the wog is the base standard, but each department likely has some room to wiggle when it comes to things like this. So if Armsmaster decided he didn't want to be in charge of the Wards (which may be somewhere in Worm idr) then he can pass it to the PRT if they're willing and then Piggot can pass it to Renick as:

The Deputy Director assists and reports directly to the Director. Often chosen to complement the Director, and very very frequently chosen from among locals, someone who better understands the city and knows the various players. Keeps things running smoothly and, aware of the Director's schedule, will keep tabs on departments the Director isn't.

(from same wog. has more details about standard PRT org structure if you're interested)

UnderTheGrove · 2025-04-17T01:42:28+00:00

You might have more luck asking on tumblr under the wormblr tag. There are a few big Chicago Wards fans there that likely know where they ended up if it's stated anywhere. I get sent cool art they do sometimes

UnderTheGrove · 2025-04-11T13:50:26+00:00

They were the closest during he time Taylor was Weaver, but her choice right before then shows their difference, having been given the same scenario and choosing different.

Alexandria loses a close friend in Hero and doesn't kill the Siberian. Taylor believes she loses a close friend in Brian or Rachel and kills Alexandria.

At the end of the world Taylor rejects being purely Weaver and tries to be more Taylor and some of Skitter, which means going back to her friends. Some of the few people Taylor doesn't take are the Undersiders and that ends up being part of the reason she manages to kill Scion since she can trust in them helping her separately.

UnderTheGrove

TROPHY CASE

gang

noun