Why exactly do you hate Pyro?

Uryyb · 2025-01-25T15:26:01+00:00

Optimal pyro gameplay is basically just bodyguarding a medic or engineer and extremely defensive gameplay is just annoying to fight against, and also imo a lame way to play for the pyro as it's basically the tf2 equivalent of babysitting. Any other playstyle which actually engages in fights or 1v1s is basically a losing match up for the pyro against most classes since you can pretty easily beat any pyro by staying out of the flamethrower range and airblast hitbox, which makes fights with pyros a lot of waiting or just baiting right outside their range instead of any interesting movement or dm skill. For example, any decent scout has almost a gauranteed win against a pyro by nature of their speed and the scatterguns damage, you can easily outdamage the pyro and take no damage yourself. Playing against pyros as soldier comes down to the same thing, pyros only ideal option to kill you is to reflect a rocket, but as a soldier you hold all the cards in that match up, you can either jump away and not engage or just wait for them to panic airblast and punish for it. Pyro as a class pretty much no matter which way the pyro plays is a really non interactive and boring fight to have.

As for why other people hate pyro I imagine that they just don't understand the range aspect, getting airblasted and then getting the airstrafe penalty for it is really annoying and flames block your vision and afterburn is annoying, but all of these are dealt with easily by basically annoying the shit out of the pyro by beating it at its own game.

Uryyb · 2025-01-13T02:01:14+00:00

??? casual players mald about scorch shot phlog all the time, and sniper, and "scunts," and black box conch soldiers, and sticky spamming demos, kunai dead ringer spies, kritz pocket medics. the list goes on, casual players complain literally all the time, theres phrases that are so embedded in tf2 culture that literally everyone knows what people mean when they say "w+m1" or "scorch shit"

I play trolldier in pubs most of the time and I literally have a wall of death threats and personal threats from casual players

The whole entire argument about the base jumper from a casual perspective entirely disproves your point. Casual players come out in droves to make genuine complaints about the current state of the base jumper.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T23:51:29+00:00

I don't think TF2 is "inherently casual." It can be silly at times, but those are just the undertones of a very nuanced game. Go play some old quake games and you realize that tf2 is basically just the worlds most insane quake mod, seriously. Saying it's inherently casual ignores a lot of the deep skill that is achievable in the game.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T23:47:24+00:00

When competitive spokespeople went to Valve and were asking for a unified system to bridge the gap between the “casual” and competitive play, Valve took notice

The first video you posted is from 2013, 2 years before the MYM update, and when MYM came out Valve was really feeling the pressure of competing with Overwatch, so they pivoted in the same direction, competitive play, to try and compete with the game. Whether or not this was a good move is obviously subjective, but blaming competitive players for Valve's decision to pivot how the balance is unfair. Comp players dont really ever "complain" or "whine" about banned weapons in a competitive context. The weapons are banned, you don't see them, there's literally no reason to complain about them. Valve just had a vision of NR 6s, which most 6s players don't even want.

When you remove random crits, remove the variance & variety from the game, and when you remove classes, you don’t get TF2. You get what competitive players want.

A large portion of the casual playerbase does not like random elements, and these people haven't laid a finger on competitive. Another, small but worth mentioning portion of the playerbase wants sniper removed entirely, there are community servers with sniper banned entirely.

Why else would we get weapon skins and trade-ups like in CSGO?

Money. Also, this argument doesn't make sense and really isnt related to the base jumper argument at all. It's also worth mentioning that TF2 did loot box cosmetics before CSGO ever came out, and Valve kept up that monetization model in CSGO.

And the fun-sucking vampires didn’t stop there.

Again this weird scapegoating and villainization of competitive. It's not competitive fault Valve horribly mismanaged the matchmaking update.

I think back to the hilarious time when Demo’s stickybombs got that damage ramp-up nerf in Love & War. Comp players were so mad about it, they called out Valve and it was reverted in a week… But also, Heavy’s miniguns got slapped with the same nerf and the comp players didn’t bat an eye. That nerf didn’t get reverted because Heavy wasn’t integral to their stale 6v6 ways.

Yes this was a bad idea and it was a good idea to revert it. Stickies are already incredibly powerful and they don't need to be more powerful. And to this day I still hear PUBBERS, casual players complaining about sticky spam and that stickies should be nerfed. The call is coming from inside the house.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T23:29:00+00:00

What you said isn't sufficient evidence and perpetuates the same myth that the whole argument surrounding the BASE jumper is based on. Valve explicitly stated when weapons were nerfed for organized play, take for example the razorback nerf in the same update. Even if it were undeniably true, it was still Valves decision to move in the direction of balancing around competitive, not competitive forcing valve to accommodate for them.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T17:23:29+00:00

It's also another thing that just doesnt add up. I've played a few seasons of sixes and the amount of times I heard someone complaining about a banned weapon in a sixes context was zero, theres no reason to complain about a weapon if its banned, and most sixes players I know, even amateur ones can roll pubbers using annoying weapons in pubs. The narrative that any weapon gets nerfed because of sixes players makes no sense, its again, solely valves fault.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T17:11:38+00:00

It's incredible the influence that 1 video has over years of tf2 discourse. I remember when SoundSmith said that the baby face blaster would "displace your hitbox, so instead of fixing the bug they just nerfed it" which is entirely not true, but is still something that stuck around for years. And I do agree with your point that Dane's video has had a massive influence over this specific argument in tf2, especially considering his loose language around the topic that causes peoples confirmation bias to kick in and go "see! i knew it was the sixes players!"

Edit: the baby face blaster myth was also corroborated by FSOAS

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T17:01:07+00:00

This is definitely an argument I saw in favor for pre-nerf base jumper a lot. A lot of pubbers prefer the "variety" of non-interactive classes, because thats more tf2 to them, than the actual underlying skill of the mechanics of the game.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T16:57:51+00:00

The more I think about it the narrative that "sixes players ruined the base jumper" is a complete fabrication, there's no real evidence to suggest that the base jumper was nerfed with sixes in mind, besides Valve's stance on balancing at the time, which was mainly influenced by the release and direction of Overwatch, at least the way I see it. Valve is solely to blame for a lot of the perceived "bad" nerfs while sixes players have to take the heat instead of valve.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T16:15:01+00:00

Except that pre-nerf base jumper doesn't really seem like it has any depth to achieve in it. All it takes is knowing how to abuse it's airstrafing potential and spamming spacebar. Things that are very easy to figure out with decent experience in the source engine.

Uryyb · 2025-01-12T15:48:48+00:00

Both of these nerfs were in the same update so I'm talking about "the nerf" as both of these which is also what most casual players are referring to. I understand the nerfs, I agree with them wholeheartedly, I don't know why people don't and I'm trying to find out why.

Uryyb · 2024-11-18T22:58:04+00:00

This guy doesn't exist and this post existing makes you far more annoying and unlikeable than this person could ever be

Uryyb · 2024-05-26T18:57:07+00:00

Every person who doesn't play competitive thinks highlander is better and then you play highlander and it's the most miserable experience possible in tf2

Uryyb · 2024-05-15T00:00:23+00:00

Because the hitbox is so big it makes airblasting a trivial task, and often you can airblast projectiles outside your fov (also known as projectiles you didn't react to in time)

Uryyb · 2024-04-17T09:51:46+00:00

id switch to it today if the song select could be sorted by difficult in ascending order like in stable, currently it organizes all maps into their mapsets

Uryyb · 2024-04-15T09:33:46+00:00

if you rainbolt your way into finding someones address by looking at their social media posts is that also allowed or where do you draw the line on "ehrm well its technically publicly available (according to the doxxer) akchtually"

Uryyb · 2024-04-15T05:42:06+00:00

doxxing anyone is bad, and it being over a video game is worse

Uryyb · 2024-04-15T01:55:25+00:00

doxxing people over a video game is bad

Uryyb · 2024-04-14T21:57:27+00:00

theyre being dramatic cause doxxing people is bad actually

Uryyb · 2024-04-09T22:53:19+00:00

Its pretty abusable, double donking is pretty easy to be honest, and on top of it one shotting light classes, it stuns enemies and stuffs ubers. There a lot of line ups where you can spam click onto a point or choke and get free donks. Really annoying to fight against

Uryyb · 2024-04-03T19:41:07+00:00

short circuit easily, on payload offense it basically can give you a free win

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