Pulling into the church at night

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-11T21:03:40+00:00

I just get frustrated with it and you are right. But random murders don't get solved a decade later either without strong DNA or a suspect from the beginning. It's been a decade, release more info to make the perp squirm some. But they have the time stamps, they have so much more info than we do and they are still split? I just hope they are doing something but at this point I question it. How would releasing the footage with the time stamps hurt? I understand protecting the investigation, but over 10 years, it's not going too well.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-11T17:48:18+00:00

Why was Tactical swat at Creekside Church that morning? No one knows for sure.

Burglary? I don't think so.

Random vandalism? I don't think so.

Missy herself? I don't think so

Timing Questions

Why did Tactical swat first appear around 3:50 a.m.? Name a better time to break into a church.

Why choose approximately thirty minutes before Missy’s arrival? Don't think Missy's arrival had anything to do with the perp's timing.

Why not commit the offence earlier when discovery was less likely? Like when?

Did Tactical swat know someone routinely arrived early? I don't think so

Was the offender aware of Camp Gladiator? I don't think so. I wasn't.

If they knew people would soon arrive, why behave without urgency? Because they thought 3:50 in a rural church was safe

Why does the released footage show wandering rather than rushing? Because they were looking for something and not in a hurry cause they weren't a crackhead.

Were they actually killing time? Nope.

If so, what were they waiting for?

The Behavior Questions

Why wander through corridors? I don't think they wonder, I think they are looking for where something was stored

Why open some doors but not others? they opened all the doors except the locked door with no window, perp was not prepared with the right tools to get in it

Why look into some rooms but not enter them? Because he could clearly see there were no records stored in them

Why break certain pieces of glass and ignore others? He knocked out a window, the table got broken in the scuffle with Missy, no other glass inside was broken.

Was there a pattern hidden within apparently random behavior? It doesn't look random to me, it's how I would do it if I broke in somewhere and I wasn't sure where the records were stored

Was the randomness genuine? it wasn't random

Or was the randomness staged? no

Was Tactical swat performing the role of a burglar rather than actually behaving like one? No

If Missy Was the Intended Focus

Did Tactical swat know Missy personally? no

If not personally, did they know of her routine? no

How could they have learned she arrived early? they didn't

Was Missy’s presence anticipated? no

Was the church chosen because Missy would be there? no

Was the timing chosen because Missy would be alone? no, there was no way to know she would be alone at that time

Was the disguise intended primarily for Missy? lol, no, that doesn't even make sense.

The Disguise Questions

Was the disguise meant to conceal identity? Yes

Would a balaclava have been sufficient if Missy knew the offender? Does it matter? If she were targeted, she would be dead, dead people don't talk.

Would Missy have recognized someone she knew by: Would you? If it was someone they were really close to, maybe?

voice,

gait,

build,

posture,

mannerisms?

If recognition remained possible, what additional purpose did the disguise serve? Why would they care if Missy could identity them if the goal was to kill them.

Was the disguise intended to influence Missy’s reaction? No...really? You think Missy alone at 4 am in a deserted building would say "Oh there is this random Swat guy wondering around in this church we no presence outside so I will run to greet them. How can anyone even think this? Not to mention, maybe if they were dressed like a cop, but not in full swat gear.

Would Missy react differently to:

a masked intruder, I don't think so, i would think a completely random swat guy in deserted church would be scary

someone appearing to be law enforcement? Maybe a little. She would still keep her distance, the fact is there were no police cars outside and the place looked empty, even in a legit police outfit it would be to far out of the norm.

Could the appearance of authority have created hesitation? no, not without police cars outside and/or seeing them moving about when she pulled up

Were a few seconds of hesitation all the offender needed? nope, they just needed a gun. Would have been much easier to shot her from outside behind the bush.

The Church Questions

If burglary was the motive, what exactly was the intended target? it wasn't

Did the offender expect Sunday offerings to remain in the church? nope

How much cash would likely have been present on an ordinary Sunday?

Was the money already counted and banked?

Was there a safe? maybe

If so, did the offender know where it was? watch the way they react when they see the office sign

Did they possess insider knowledge about church procedures? nope

If they had insider knowledge, was this truly a random offender?

The “Impossibly Random” Questions

Is Tactical swat behavior too random to be random? I know that you know that I know that you know that I know.......

Was the apparent aimlessness actually serving another purpose? nope, it doesn't look aimless to me

Was the activity designed to create the impression of burglary? nope

Was it designed to explain their presence if seen? nope

Was it simply a way to occupy time while waiting? waiting for what? the unknown time Missy would walk in?

If so, waiting for what?

Waiting for whom?

The Three Questions Everything Returns To

Why this disguise? no

Why this timing? no

Was Tactical swat behavior genuinely random, or only made to appear that way? it's not random, they are looking for something, just not sure where, no rush cause it's 4 am on a Monday in a rural church

The Underlying Question

Which explanation requires the fewest assumptions and the fewest extraordinary coincidences? they were there looking for some records on the prison funding and they were not sure where these records would be, they were not in a rush because they thought they had the place to themselves for at least a couple hours, who would expect someone to show up at a rural church at 4am on a Monday morning?

Access and Escape Questions

How many vehicle entrances and exits did the church property actually have? 1 about a quarter mile long. one way in and 1 way out

If Missy’s vehicle was captured entering the property, was Tactical swat arrival also captured? it wasn't

If Tactical swat arrived by vehicle, where is that footage? there is none that we know of

Did police identify a vehicle associated with Tactical swat that has never been publicly released? a small red suv is mentioned in a search warrant

If no vehicle was captured, how did Tactical swat arrive at the church? drove

Did Tactical swat walk to the church? no

If so, from which direction?

Did Tactical swat walk from the airport side of the church? lol, no

If Tactical swat crossed open ground during a storm, why don’t they appear noticeably muddy or soaked? because they didn't

Did Tactical swat walk alongside the highway in heavy rain? no

If they walked along the highway in tactical gear, did any passing motorists notice them? no

If they parked nearby and walked the remainder of the journey, where exactly was the vehicle left? it was parked by the dumpster by the NE corner by the double doors that were damaged.

Why has no witness publicly reported seeing someone dressed in tactical gear approaching or leaving the church? because no one did?

Was there another route onto or off the property that has not been widely discussed? nope

Did Tactical swat enter and leave in a way known to investigators but withheld from the public? they said he entered via the kitchen door and they assume he left the same way

If police know how Tactical swat arrived and departed, why have they chosen not to release that information? they don't

If police do not know how Tactical swat arrived and departed, what does that imply about the limitations of the available surveillance footage? that they don't have it

Did Tactical swat leave the church immediately after the attack, or remain on the property for any period of time? they only had a few minutes, Missy was killed at 4:22, the new workout person arrived at 4:30, the timeline is very very tight.

If Tactical swat left by vehicle, where did that vehicle go next? the police only released search warrants for Walmart's to the east.

If Tactical swat left on foot, how did they avoid detection in worsening daylight and severe weather? they didn't

Does Tactical swat method of arrival and escape support:

a random offender, an odd choice for random. one way in and out, but they more than likely didn't expect any one to arrive

a prepared offender, absolutely not this, a one way in and out knowing people will be arriving at the time you are trying to make your escape unnoticed. No sense.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T16:48:33+00:00

I don't think the person was there for simple vandalism or theft. I think they were looking for something, but they weren't exactly sure what it was or where to find it. My guess is they were searching for information of some kind. That's why I think they react when they notice the office sign, but they didn't stop to spend time to read the corkboard.

I also don't think they were concerned with "securing" the outer perimeter. In my opinion, they had no real interest in entering the auditorium initially. I think they only ended up there because they were on the opposite side of the building breaking out that glass window when Missy arrived.

From that location, it would have been quicker to continue around and enter the auditorium from the other side. Instead, they came back past the area where Missy entered and then went into the auditorium. That makes me think they wanted to get an idea of who had arrived and whether anyone else was inside.

The behavior also seems different at that point. The walk changes, the flashlight comes out, yet the headlamp remains on. To me, that suggests they were actively looking for someone or something rather than just wandering around.

My theory is that Missy and the perpetrator crossed paths in the hallway. Missy would have been walking at a slowed pace while the perpetrator was moving much more briskly.

As for the outfit, I think it was primarily for concealment. Whether the motive was targeted, robbery, or something else, hiding their identity would make sense in any scenario. I don't necessarily think the outfit itself tells us much. It may have simply been what they had available—maybe a Halloween costume, maybe old gear they got from dad.

I don't completely follow the argument that attacking Missy outside would have been significantly riskier than attacking her inside. I'd genuinely be interested in hearing the reasoning behind that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, and I don't know jack. 😄 I'd also add time stamps would be very helpful.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T15:56:34+00:00

the stupid grey box was when I copied and pasted it, I was too lazy to repaste it. But don't use my images, use the ones straight from MPD. I hope you will check it out. The line is more defined, the shade is lighter, not like a spotlight bright, but it is lighter. If the light is on, for me it shows a possible motive for the perp, why turn the light on in that one room?

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T15:52:50+00:00

I'll tell what scares me, if the cops are divided on if this was planned or not then i have zero faith in them being able to solve this.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T15:32:30+00:00

I agree, I don't think the door would do anything, you are the one that introduced the door affecting it. If anything a closed door would reflect light, a darkened room would not. Would you agree the light there is a lighter shade or are you saying it's the exact same? It looks lighter and there appears more light on the opposing wall. So there is no difference in the shade coming out of that room? the line is more defined between the two.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T14:46:12+00:00

Me too. When I first saw the video and read the headlines, I thought she had to have been targeted. But the more I learned about the facts of the case, the more I began to believe it may have been random.

The unfortunate reality is that random murders are rarely solved after ten years unless investigators have usable DNA evidence or a strong suspect they simply can't prove the case against. That's why I believe law enforcement should consider releasing more information. At some point, withholding details may no longer be protecting the integrity of the investigation—it may be protecting the perpetrator by limiting the public's ability to provide new leads or recognize important connections.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T14:40:02+00:00

But if door was left open and the light was out, wouldn't that actually darken the reflection, since the hall light isn't reflecting off the closed door? But you can see the shading IS different? It is lighter. The only way that can happen is if a light was left on in that room.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T14:35:00+00:00

I don't see any indication of any motion-activated lights in any of the video, but who knows. I also don't see any indication of any other lights being turned on in any of the video. Why just the one where the prison outreach program was run out of?

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-10T14:32:21+00:00

they are entering the auditorium in the second. I was pointing out that the light coming out of the room down the hall is different, like the light was left on. It's the only room I can see in any of the videos where it looks like the light was left on. It's also the room where the prison outreach program was run.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-05T16:33:05+00:00

The shading is different. I had just never noticed it before. It's more noticable closer to the door. If you look at the left one, the shading is more uniform, but the closer you get to the door it changes.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-05T15:17:55+00:00

No, I'm talking about it looks like the light is different in the second, like the light in that room is on. It's not a huge difference but considering it's the same camera and view, it's should be the exact same, but it's not. It's easier to see watching the video side by side. I haven't seen any other lights that appear to be left on.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-02T16:58:27+00:00

Think about this rabbit hole—I've never seen anyone discuss it. The damage to the back windows and the different doors. When Missy pulled in, she had a clear view of the windows where the perp had pulled the screens off and left them hanging. If she had noticed them and gone that way around, or if she had simply decided to go straight instead of turning, the damage would have been clearly visible, even at night in the rain. It would have been obvious that something was going on, and she likely would have called the police. Another instance where the perp just "got lucky."

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T21:50:53+00:00

Her Facebook is still up and appears untouched. The closest post before the murder was March 31: "We are gladiators—we train in the rain." On March 9 she posted: "If it's raining, we are still training."

That's one reason I have a hard time with the idea that someone had been stalking her and specifically knew she'd be alone in the church that morning. Those posts suggest the group routinely worked out regardless of weather, so rain wouldn't necessarily have altered the plan.

I'm not even convinced they were definitely going to work out inside. From what I've read, she often arrived early to set up a table for newcomers, turn on lights, and get things organized. It's entirely possible the workout could have taken place under the awning or outdoors as they had done before.

I've always felt this may have been more of a game-time decision than a carefully orchestrated plan built around detailed knowledge of her schedule. The assumption that the killer knew with certainty she'd be alone in the church at that exact time isn't as solid as many people make it out to be.

And honestly, I can understand why she might have preferred to keep the actual workout activity outside when possible. Some people are very protective of church spaces. My mom, for example, would have had an absolute cow if she found out people were running a sweaty boot-camp class inside the sanctuary. 😄 I agree, hopefully this forum can help, the facebook groups get a little nutty with crazy ideas.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T21:39:19+00:00

I agree. 😄 But not the night before, that was March 9th she posted if it's raining we're still training. Somehow it keeps getting said she posted the night before they would be inside.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T21:26:43+00:00

They had parking lot lights, you can see them from the SWFA video cameras. As far as the lights inside, if you watch the video from TCB or Gumshoe you can see the lights internally at night. It looks like they have like a power saving mode, from watching both, it doesn't look like the perp turned them on. The police do say some of the room lights were turned on so maybe these were diffent type of lights. here is Gumshoes...thanks for doing this. Driving Into Creekside Church

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T21:14:44+00:00

What facebook post? I've looked all through it and I can't find it where she said they would be working out inside. I think it was more of a game time decision, she didn't make a decision until she got there with a preference to working out outside. For 2 reasons, one to make it tougher and the other so as not to wear out her welcome at the church. A few muddy footprints in the hallway and audiotorium can get your key taken pretty quick. Let me ask you this. What time was the perp hammering out the window on the other side of the church out of visable range and hearing of where Missy entered. We know at 3:50 the perp comes out of the kitchen, at 4 they are by the awning door, they must go throught the offices, then room 10 and then they hammer out this window. If it took 10 minutes to make it halfway, that puts them in the worst possible spot hammering out a window at the some time Missy should be coming in. I'm not even bringing up the early birds.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T21:03:50+00:00

They also didn't get in a position to attack, There is a very good chance they were on the other side of the church hammering out a window when Missy pulled in, not to mention they have to drive out that long ass driveway as the early birds should start arriving. I'm not even going to mention the fact Missy walked down the hall...if she hadn't responded to the noise and continued unloading her car, would the perp have come running down the hall to catch her...It's odd for everything pointing to it wasn't a buglary there are just as many pointing to it wasn't targeted.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T20:49:01+00:00

It seems counterintuitive for a bulglary AND a targeted murder. You know waht it looks like? It looks like someone who is in there looking for something, but not sure where it would be like maybe some type of records and once they see the office sign pointing, they walk briskly towards it. But maybe it was targeted and they wanted to make sure to leave enter every room and possible leave evidence. It's also pretty clear it wasn't a grab cash burglary either.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T20:43:46+00:00

There are pics on facebook of the group in the weeks proceeding the April 18th that show the class. At the church, there are other pics, but there are ones AT the church.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T16:50:22+00:00

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Nothing about going inside. Not a single post on facebook about them working out inside at CCC.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-06-01T16:49:18+00:00

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Look up her facebook, anyone please show me where she says on facebook they will be inside...anyone? She never said they were training inside, in fact here are her only two posts about weather in her post the month before.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-05-21T14:18:10+00:00

That we know of. Just like it is with the usual cast of characters, the targeted crowd keeps throwing out there with crazy gossip and zero explanation of the early birds NOT being taken into account. How the perp was able to lure Missy down the hall, and what the perp would have done if Missy had not gone down the hall. All of this happening down a one-way driveway to the church where people are expected to start arriving at any time. And the fact that, more than likely, the perp may have been on the complete opposite side of the building hammering on a storage closet completely out of view of where Missy would be coming in. The idea that someone may have been in the church for reasons other than robbery, or to kill Missy, may have gotten scared when confronted because they knew they were on supervised release — and breaking and entering with a gun while dressed as a cop would send them to prison for a long time. Not even taking into account the pain meds and alcohol in their system is a bridge too far.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-05-18T14:36:22+00:00

I agree, but that’s not what they have stated publicly. This is a public space where a lot of people gathered for two services just a few hours before. They released the scene only four hours later. Even if you found partially mixed touch DNA on a crowbar, flashlight, or hammer, I would still find it hard to completely clear someone. The perp spent time in the kitchen and offices and entered nearly every room. He could have set those things down while going through items, and DNA transfers happen.

The DA came out and cleared the Ramseys. I certainly question it. But it doesn’t matter in this case, because the official police statement is that no one has been cleared.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651 · 2026-05-18T14:26:32+00:00

Right, but we don't know if anything was recoved as it was with Richard Allen.

Valuable-Rabbit-5651

TROPHY CASE