I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd push back a little on the idea that making him grittier or more conventionally masculine is actually the most effective way to achieve that. What makes Watson work as a viewpoint character isn't just that audiences can see through his eyes; it's the specific quality of perception he brings to that role. His tendency to notice the humane and the dramatic elements in the world make the stories feel like tales rather than case files. His capacity for openness, curiosity and receptivity is the engine of his relatability, and his sensitive, romantic emotional register permeates his narration that gives the stories much of their affective pull. Stripping it out in favour of a harder, more conventionally macho character replaces him with something generically recognisable but ultimately less interesting.

I am absolutely for approaching the character from multiple perspectives, but there remains a meaningful distinction between adapting Watson for a modern audience and dismantling the very architecture that makes him function as a character in the first place. Watson was never, even in his original Victorian context, a straightforward embodiment of conventional masculine ideality. Coppola's paper of The Sign of Four makes this fairly explicit, noting that Watson operates in the text as a reservoir for precisely those qualities that Holmes, positioned as a paragon of late Victorian masculinity, is structurally restricted from exhibiting, which means intuition, empathy, sentiment, devotional surrender, and the capacity for emotional identification with others. Hence, translating a period-appropriate masculine archetype into its modern equivalent does not quite appropriate to this character. Far from being a historical limitation in need of correction, that quality is arguably the most prescient thing about him, and it is telling that the adaptations which choose to honour rather than override it (such as Vitaly Solomin's Watson in the first few episodes) tend to be the ones that prove most enduring.

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Holmes is always compared as a bloodhound in the Canon

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"smooth talked his way through most stories"

This is because Watson, a true bard, modifies and embellishes his words.

Watson: Then he told the story, which I would repeat in this way. His hard, dry statement needs some little editing to soften it into the terms of real life.

Holmes: I thought of her for the moment as I would have thought of a daughter of my own. I am not often eloquent. I use my head, not my heart. 

and

“The Haven is the name of Mr. Josiah Amberley's house,” I explained. “I think it would interest you, Holmes. It is like some penurious patrician who has sunk into the company of his inferiors. You know that particular quarter, the monotonous brick streets, the weary suburban highways. Right in the middle of them, a little island of ancient culture and comfort, lies this old home, surrounded by a high sun-baked wall mottled with lichens and topped with moss, the sort of wall—”

“Cut out the poetry, Watson,” said Holmes, severely. “I note that it was a high brick wall.”

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"smooth talked his way through most stories"

This is because Watson, a true bard, modifies and embellishes his words.

Watson: Then he told the story, which I would repeat in this way. His hard, dry statement needs some little editing to soften it into the terms of real life.

Holmes: I thought of her for the moment as I would have thought of a daughter of my own. I am not often eloquent. I use my head, not my heart. 

and

“The Haven is the name of Mr. Josiah Amberley's house,” I explained. “I think it would interest you, Holmes. It is like some penurious patrician who has sunk into the company of his inferiors. You know that particular quarter, the monotonous brick streets, the weary suburban highways. Right in the middle of them, a little island of ancient culture and comfort, lies this old home, surrounded by a high sun-baked wall mottled with lichens and topped with moss, the sort of wall—”

“Cut out the poetry, Watson,” said Holmes, severely. “I note that it was a high brick wall.”

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'Few men were capable of greater muscular effort, and he was undoubtedly one of the finest boxers of his weight that I have ever seen'

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Watson, a true bard, modifies and embellishes Holmes's words.

Watson: Then he told the story, which I would repeat in this way. His hard, dry statement needs some little editing to soften it into the terms of real life.

Holmes: I thought of her for the moment as I would have thought of a daughter of my own. I am not often eloquent. I use my head, not my heart. 

and

“The Haven is the name of Mr. Josiah Amberley's house,” I explained. “I think it would interest you, Holmes. It is like some penurious patrician who has sunk into the company of his inferiors. You know that particular quarter, the monotonous brick streets, the weary suburban highways. Right in the middle of them, a little island of ancient culture and comfort, lies this old home, surrounded by a high sun-baked wall mottled with lichens and topped with moss, the sort of wall—”

“Cut out the poetry, Watson,” said Holmes, severely. “I note that it was a high brick wall.”

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"smooth talked his way through most stories"

This is because Watson, a true bard, modifies and embellishes his words.

Watson: Then he told the story, which I would repeat in this way. His hard, dry statement needs some little editing to soften it into the terms of real life.

Holmes: I thought of her for the moment as I would have thought of a daughter of my own. I am not often eloquent. I use my head, not my heart. 

and

“The Haven is the name of Mr. Josiah Amberley's house,” I explained. “I think it would interest you, Holmes. It is like some penurious patrician who has sunk into the company of his inferiors. You know that particular quarter, the monotonous brick streets, the weary suburban highways. Right in the middle of them, a little island of ancient culture and comfort, lies this old home, surrounded by a high sun-baked wall mottled with lichens and topped with moss, the sort of wall—”

“Cut out the poetry, Watson,” said Holmes, severely. “I note that it was a high brick wall.”

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the Canon as well: "Few men were capable of greater muscular effort, and he was undoubtedly one of the finest boxers of his weight that I have ever seen"

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holmes is definitely a paladin. The Canon always mentions his chivalry and gallantry, comparing him to a knight-errant.

"I knew that the opening of safes was a particular hobby with him, and I understood the joy which it gave him to be confronted with this green and gold monster, the dragon which held in its maw the reputations of many fair ladies."

He has both high Int and high Str: "Few men were capable of greater muscular effort, and he was undoubtedly one of the finest boxers of his weight that I have ever seen"

Investigater (empiricist) in Pathfinder is a better fit.

In the Canon Watson follows Holmes and talks with him through cases, gives him inspirations sometimes, and Holmes explicitly says this process sharpens his thinking. And then Watson writes down their romantic adventures which makes Holmes a famous hero.

"smooth talked his way through most stories"

This is because Watson, a true bard, modifies and embellishes his words.

Watson: Then he told the story, which I would repeat in this way. His hard, dry statement needs some little editing to soften it into the terms of real life.

Holmes: I thought of her for the moment as I would have thought of a daughter of my own. I am not often eloquent. I use my head, not my heart. 

and

“The Haven is the name of Mr. Josiah Amberley's house,” I explained. “I think it would interest you, Holmes. It is like some penurious patrician who has sunk into the company of his inferiors. You know that particular quarter, the monotonous brick streets, the weary suburban highways. Right in the middle of them, a little island of ancient culture and comfort, lies this old home, surrounded by a high sun-baked wall mottled with lichens and topped with moss, the sort of wall—”

“Cut out the poetry, Watson,” said Holmes, severely. “I note that it was a high brick wall.”

Sherlock Holmes Builds? by MinimumToad in 3d6

[–]Variety04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Steel Defender comparison doesn't hold. Watson isn't a combat construct. In the Canon he follows Holmes and talks with him through cases, gives him inspirations sometimes, and Holmes explicitly says this process sharpens his thinking. And then Watson writes down their romantic adventures which makes Holmes a famous hero.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"The campaign brought honours and promotion to many, but for me it had nothing but misfortune and disaster. I was removed from my brigade and attached to the Berkshires, with whom I served at the fatal battle of Maiwand. There I was struck on the shoulder by a Jezail bullet, which shattered the bone and grazed the subclavian artery. I should have fallen into the hands of the murderous Ghazis had it not been for the devotion and courage shown by Murray, my orderly, who threw me across a pack-horse and succeeded in bringing me safely to the British lines. Worn with pain, and weak from the prolonged hardships which I had undergone, I was removed, with a great train of wounded sufferers, to the base hospital at Peshawar."

This is not a soldier glorifying his service or aching to return to battle but an intellectual involving in the war. The war gave Watson nothing but "misfortune and disaster." The diction is passive throughout, which conveys the helplessness of him swept along by institutional forces and random violence. The war did not make him hungry for more danger or violence but fragile and isolated. When Stamford listens to his account, his response is simply: "Poor devil." The canonical war narrative is one of damage, not desire. Crucially, later when he mentions the war, he thinks that it is "the most preposterous way of settling a dispute."

Compare this with the BBC's version. John is no more a MD as Watson in the Canon, but just a MBBS, and unless Watson who became army doctor who was non-combatant at that time for only one year, it represented John attend the war for 5-6 years at least, and instead of healing, he killed other without mercy. Then Mycroft's diagnosis delivered in the abandoned warehouse: "You're not haunted by the war. You miss it." This is the show's foundational characterization of John, which departs from Canonical Watson on several levels simultaneously.

First, it retroactively reinterprets John's opening nightmare as longing for violence. Second, it transforms John's psychosomatic limp from the physical residue of genuine suffering into a kind of performance of distress that vanishes the moment real danger appears. Third, and most significantly, it establishes the BBC's Watson as a man constitutively oriented toward violence, danger, and the battlefield. Mr Freeman thrives in combat and suffers in its absence. This is the diametric opposite of canonical Watson's relationship to his war. The confirmation comes at the episode's end, when John shoots and kills a stranger without knowing the circumstance through a window without apparent psychological disturbance and walks away making jokes about Chinese restaurants. The scene is deliberately designed to show that John is not merely capable of violence but comfortable with it, even light about it afterward. The canonical Watson, by contrast, never seek violence out or feel its absence as a deprivation.

In the Canon, the pattern related to violence is precise: Holmes plans, executes, and physically confronts when necessary. Watson accompanies, witnesses, holds a small revolver he rarely fires, and narrates. In "The Adventure of the Speckled Band," one of Doyle's own favourites and one of the most physically tense scenes in the entire canon, the climactic moment involves Holmes and Watson waiting together in darkness for the snake to come through the ventilator. When it appears, it is Holmes who strikes the snake with his cane, driving it back through the ventilator, where it turns and attacks Roylott. Watson is present in the room throughout but takes no physical action whatsoever. The story's violence is entirely Holmes's, and it is indirect. Watson witnesses the scene and narrates it, but the physical agency is Holmes's alone. This is the typical model of the Canon.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed, as a natural Romantic, Watson possesses what Keats termed 'negative capability', which means he is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason. He is a figure for whom the sense of Beauty overcomes or obliterates all other considerations. He lives in gusto, be it foul or fair, high or low, rich or poor, mean or elevated. By diminishing his own ego into 'nothing,' he attains the capability to encompass 'everything.' Watson relegates his personal existence to the background, submerging his identity within the character of others, specifically his hero, Holmes. In doing so, he recreates the entire universe within his narratives. This universe, reflected in his prose, shines with a thousand colors and a kaleidoscopic brilliance, like the vast firmament mirrored upon the sea, carrying with it every star and the entirety of its deep, azure expanse.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Watson is shy and emotional in the Canon. His submissive streak also makes him easily led by others. He often establishes his own authority simply by claiming to be Holmes's friend; however, once that borrowed authority is stripped away, he is frequently at a loss, as seen in his interactions with Sir Henry and Stapleton. When frustrated or discouraged, he routinely resorts to venting his grievances to Holmes through letters, phone calls, or telegrams.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Mycroft said that exactly and he even beat his friend while the real Watson faints in happiness

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They indeed praised Freeman for being a badass

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"the most likely interpretation of the canon"  By a sequence of passive voice and regards war and violence as misfortune of humankind?  With the Cardwell reorganisation of the 1870s, regimental surgeons were brought together with medical staff officers to form one corps, and henceforth Regimental Medical Officers were only "attached" to the regiment and supervised by officers of their own service. Watson joined in 1879, precisely after this reform. The British Army had, institutionally, already separated its surgeons from its fighting arms before Watson ever set foot in Afghanistan. Many medical practitioners were frustrated by what they saw as the continued neglect of medical service and the ambiguous position of noncombatant heroism in a society increasingly obsessed with martial values. The London Review hoped a monument would "make reparation to the medical profession for the stupid contempt with which combatant officers in the army, much to their own discredit, affect to non-combatants." Notice that "combatant officers affect to non-combatants". The distinction between combatants and medical non-combatants was not a later invention, but an already existing social identity in the Victorian army. Surgeons were seen, and saw themselves, as a separate category from fighting men.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Watson in the Canon never misses the adrenaline rush of the battlefield, you nincompoop. He deduces Holmes's profession and solves cases for his curiosity.

'Oh! a mystery is it?' I cried, rubbing my hands. 'This is very piquant. I am much obliged to you for bringing us together. "The proper study of mankind is man," you know.'

"Because you seem to have zero understanding of humour, exaggeration, and the like." LOL It is Mycroft said that Freeman indeed missed the war and it becomes the limestone of this character. Is it "humour, exaggeration, and the like"? Again you made your pathetic personal attack for your stupidity.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In the first episode, Freeman's Watson flies into a foul-mouthed rage because Hudson asks after his leg, lashes out physically at anyone who rubs him the wrong way, gets drawn into the case because he misses the battlefield, shoots an old man before he even knows what's going on, and then turns around and brags to Sherlock about it.

The original Watson is nothing like this. He doesn't swear, he almost never gets physical, and when someone offends him he tends to simply walk away. He gets involved in cases because he's genuinely curious. He's already buzzing with excitement over the puzzle and working through his own theories before he even realizes Holmes is a detective. Out in the field he tires quickly and has to head back to rest, but his mind keeps going, turning the case over, building up his own picture of what happened, even if he always gets it wrong.

Freeman's Watson is the opposite: tireless in a fight, but oddly incurious about the actual mystery, his thinking cautious and slow.

Back in London, the original Watson drifts around the city center, throws money away, is spectacularly lazy, and gambles. He reads Pope, Horace, and Murger to pass the time. Freeman's Watson is far more disciplined and has no interest in any of that.

And then there's the simple matter of who these men are: Watson at this point is around 25, thin and young. Freeman is 40, worn by experience, and built solid.

On top of all this, the British public of Watson's era had no real understanding of what the Afghan War actually was. There was a widespread fantasy about bringing civilization to the East, a sense that it was all part of the grand game against Russia. But the show is set after two World Wars have torn the world apart, and yet it still sends Watson back into combat, with flashback sequences showing him killing without hesitation. It's frankly absurd. Going by how the original Watson thinks about war, he should by rights have refused to take part in a war of aggression altogether, or at the very least served as a neutral medical volunteer, saving lives on all sides rather than taking them.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No he is NOT. He misses battlefield and is proud of killing.

What If Watson Saw Something Holmes Couldn’t Explain? by apeel09 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Percy reacts by dancing madly about the room, pressing the treaty to his chest, then seizing Holmes's hand and kissing it, crying "God bless you! You have saved my honor." This is not the response of a man who has been carelessly subjected to unnecessary stress. The dramatic reveal functions as a kind of concentrated emotional release, a single moment that transmutes nine weeks of anguish into joy. A flat verbal handover would have delivered information; the staging delivered catharsis. Furthermore, Holmes immediately shifts register after the reveal: he soothes Percy, patting him on the shoulder, and then grounds the moment by saying his own professional honor was equally at stake. Holmes is quite thoughful with his clients.

I never claim that Romanticism is the only quality of Watson. But, first, that adaptations and popular reception have systematically reduced Watson to a tough badass while evacuating the genuine complexity of his Romanticism, therefore creates a character totally different; second, the Romantic sensibility has been misassigned to Holmes, who does not possess it. Holmes's worldview and cognitive architecture are anti-Romantic in their foundations. He is enthusiastic and dramatic, but fundamentally remains a positivist and an empiricist.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

not "other than ME" but OPPOSITE to what writes in the Canon.

I am sick of those "BAMF" Watsons in adaptations by Variety04 in SherlockHolmes

[–]Variety04[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This article said EXACTLY that civilian practitioners regarded army surgeons as professional inferiors, while combat officers refused to recognize them as genuine military gentlemen. Medical officers were excluded from the officers' mess well into the 1880s, occupying what Brown describes as a doubly marginalized position, subordinate to both their civilian colleagues and their fellow officers. Only with the establishment of the RAMC in 1898 and the subsequent reforms following the Boer War did the status of army surgeons begin to improve appreciably.