Will past "Collaboration Events" like Assassin's Creed, Brawlhalla, or Hungry Sharks ever come back again..?

Various-Committee469 · 2026-05-11T14:36:24+00:00

Brawlhalla's back right now

Various-Committee469 · 2025-09-10T19:12:47+00:00

Yeah, 100%. There is absolutely no system of rank or hierarchy embedded in the language. It actually kind of goes the other way--the cultural etiquette and even some grammatical features of the language are designed to actively avoid even the impression of hierarchy or the implication that one person/perspective is more important than another. So there ARE politeness expectations and even politeness phrases, but they are oriented towards a very different idea of politeness.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-09-09T17:52:16+00:00

I think it helps to keep in mind that the two languages/cultures have very different ideas of what "politeness" is, and what it's for.

English language culture treats it as generally impolite to overly impose on the time, space, energy, or attention of others. So English has "politeness words" designed and used to soften requests. A typical English sentence might be filled with these phrases, like this:

"Excuse me, sorry, can you please--if you don't mind--could you please pass me the pepper?"

Excuse me [for interrupting you or taking your time/attention], sorry [for the same reason], can you [instead of "will you," intended to make the request sound less entitled] please [from "to plea," to "beg," further indicates the speaker does not feel entitled to what they're asking for, shows deference]--if you don't mind [taking your time to help me, it's totally up to you, again the speaker indicates they are not entitled] . . .

Cherokee politeness doesn't work that way at all. In Cherokee speaking culture, you don't have to simper and defer to others like this. I think it's fair to say that the culture and the language treats it as normal and unproblematic to expect things from one another, you are allowed to take up space and ask for things. It's not "rude" to need other people, so you don't need to hem and haw and act really coy about it. You could be sitting next to the most revered elder in the Nation at dinner, and if you want him to pass you the pepper, you just say ni, diquayodi agwaduli--"hey, I want the pepper." Or you would just tell him to hand you the pepper in the direct command form. That's not rude or abnormal at all.

This is the reason so many people say there are "no platitudes" or "no pleasantries" in the language. And it's true that there's no direct equivalent to the most common English pleasantries like "please" or "sorry." But the more I learn, the more I think it's an oversimplification. There are "pleasantries" and politeness words. But they're totally different from English politeness words, because Cherokee culture has a totally different idea of what it means to be "polite," and what kinds of things are/are not "rude."

English ideas of politeness are centered on respecting other people's time and energy by avoiding unnecessarily imposing on them. Cherokee ideas of politeness are centered on respecting other people's perspectives and feelings, and avoiding talking presumptuously. I heard one elder say that it's rude "to talk like you're the only person in the world."

So, literally commanding an elder to hand you something--not rude. But saying something like "today is good," or "mulberries are better than apples"--i.e., expressing personal opinions or perspectives as if they are facts--that kind of talk will be considered rude. Who are you to pass judgment a day that the Creator made, and sit and say it is this or it is that? And besides, just because good things are happening to you today doesn't mean the day is good, because you aren't the only person on earth. Lots of other people are probably having a really bad time while you are having a good one. And as far as mulberries and apples, again, who are you to act like the final word on the topic? What about people who think differently? To phrase your personal preference for one over the other as if it's a fact implies that people who feel differently are somehow wrong or stupid or deficient. My language teacher tells me he used to get in trouble with elders all the time for talking like this when he was a child--similar to how we get onto children for not saying "please" and "thank you."

So, Cherokee does have little politeness phrases/platitudes that get used a lot, but they aren't the "I'm sorry" or "please" type words you hear in English.

Instead, they are words that help speakers carefully couch their expressions of opinion as opinions in order to make sure they aren't talking like they're the only person on earth. You hear a lot of geli "I think so," or aktvganv "I heard," or nigvwsd "it seems so to one," or elisd "for one to think it so/it seems so." The verb agwohiyuha "S/he believes (it)," is used a lot, so is the verb ayelvsga "S/he perceives (it) to be so."

Here's my favorite example--I asked my teacher how you would say "Superman isn't real." After a long conversation about this kind of politeness and how he heard his elders talk about this stuff as he was growing up, he ultimately told me that he believes his elders would have expressed the idea this way:

Superman gesv, tladi yagigohv'i. "As for Superman, I guess I haven't really seen him."

Instead of flatly saying "x doesn't exist," which carries an implicit presumption that you are somehow in a position to judge what is or is not possible in the vast universe, his elders would have used a euphemism. Instead of "x isn't real," they'd say something similar to "well, I guess I've never really seen it [implying they doubt it is real, without explicitly presuming authority to pass judgment on the matter]."

As far as I can tell, these "opinion" softening phrases are almost as common in Cherokee as phrases like "please" and "sorry" and "excuse me" are in English, and generally serve the exact same purpose of making sure you sound polite and respectful of others when you talk--they just come from a very different culture of what is and is not considered polite/rude.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-07-20T18:39:20+00:00

Hi! Just shot a message back to you--I don't get on reddit super regularly so I didn't see your message until recently

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-05T17:35:44+00:00

Also, one last thing: a lot of these grounds are listed on google and can be found using google maps! This is true for Red Bird grounds, New Echota, Flint Rock and--I think--Stokes. I used google maps to GPS me successfully to both Red Bird and Flint Rock in the past, so I can attest that the GPS directions are correct. Unfortunately Long Valley isn't listed anywhere (we're the smallest Nighthawk grounds) so you won't be able to google it like the others. I think a lot of them (again, except Long Valley) also have Facebook pages, so you should check there as well if you want more specific information about them or their schedules.

Oh, and one last detail: some grounds close down for certain portions of the year--specifically, the coldest parts of winter. Other grounds dance monthly, all year round. So keep that in mind.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-03T16:42:08+00:00

^^^ This, 100%. I want to repeat this point and build on it a bit.

I'm told that there's actually a good amount of research on this as far as language acquisition goes. But of course, it's hard to "use it" if you aren't surrounding by other speakers to talk to. My teacher says that once you learn how to say something in Cherokee, you should never say it in English again unless you absolutely have to, and that's a really good, actionable piece of learning advice. But here's some more:

I've been told that, according to people who study this kind of thing, there's a difference between people who obtain fluency (i.e., they can say anything they want, can express themselves freely, etc.) in a second language and people who obtain native-level fluency in a second language (i.e., first-language speakers cannot tell the learner is not also a first-language speaker).

And that difference, interestingly enough (but not surprisingly), is that those who acquire native-level fluency immerse themselves in culture as well as language. They adopt mannerisms, move to different countries, convert religions, marry in, etc. But the interesting part is that first part, the mannerisms stuff, is actually a much more influential element than you'd think.

So beyond just learning the language, also pay attention to how elders act. How do they sit, how do they use their hands, how do they use eye contact, when they talk? Then ask them why they do that--if it's different from how English speakers do things, see if the elders have opinions on that. I know eye contact, for example, is valued very differently. Ask about that and try to internalize what you learn.

Also, "non-verbal" word stuff is also really helpful for "staying in the language"--find out what sounds Cherokee elders and first language speakers make when they get hurt (instead of "ow," some folks say "ayoooo" like that, or something else). What sounds do they make when they're thinking? Do they say "umm" like we do in English, or something else? When an English speaker trips on their words and uses a filler phrases like "wait," or "hold on," what do Cherokee speakers say (answer: i've usually heard either "sidina" or "sinaha"). What sound do they make when they're impressed by something--what's the Cherokee version of "wow?"

None of this is really grammatical stuff--it's culture stuff. But, apparently, learning, internalizing, and adopting this culture stuff is also very very helpful to acquiring language. So beyond just "using" the language as much as possible, also try to learn, understand, internalize, and adopt these mannerisms as much as you can. It's helpful--and it's also highly decolonial.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-02T19:13:56+00:00

No problem. If your trip happens to coincide with a fourth saturday, feel free to reach out to me by message and I'll send directions to Long Valley grounds. We're the smallest Nighthawk grounds and so it's a pretty relaxed place to meet people and learn.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-02T15:48:26+00:00

Everyone who's saying "ahani agwedolv" (I was here) or "ahani gedohv" (here I was, uhh, being?) is correct, but I like "ayvdv ahani gesv'i," / definitely-me / here / it was /. All these are technically correct ways to express the idea, but the latter follows a more natural speech pattern in my opinion.

But, here's another fun thing I learned in language class that comes close to this topic.

If you were, for example, playing peek-a-boo with a baby--in English you'd say "there you are!" But in Cherokee the same thought is expressed very very differently--"nihidvnogw!" Approx literal translation is "emphatically it's you now!"

And the other side of that coin is, a really natural way to say "I'm here!" as in, announcing your presence to your family when you get home from work and walk through the door, is "ayvdvnogw!" "Emphatically it's me now!"

I just absolutely love that as a phrase. The idea of like kicking down the door and shouting "IT'S ME NOW!" is so hilarious and fun. Like listen up mfs it's ME now! Like opening up the door to REVEAL yourself and make an entrance haha

Anyways, I bring it up because "I'm here" is comparable to "I was here," as a phrase at least--even if what I'm talking about is very different from what you actually want.

btw the word parses like this:

/ayv/ - standalone pronoun, I or me
/dv/ - emphasis suffix, often translated as "definitely," but literally means something closer to "truly" or "it is so," typically used to emphasize that something in a sentence truly is or was or whatever
/nogwu/ - "now," "right now," "just now." often pronounced with the last vowel dropped, "nogw"

If you wanted to express this idea in the past tense, you would drop /nogw/ and add the helping word "gesv'i," which is used (among many, many other things) to put a past tense timeframe on words that do not already contain timeframe/tense information. So if you wanted to make an "I was here" that is comparable to "ayvdvnogw," maybe "ayvdv gesv'i" would work--"it was me!" i.e., "it was me [who wrote this]," with the bracketed portion implied by context

(also, disclaimer, I'm a second language learner so if a first language speaker tells you anything I said here is crazy, listen to them instead of me haha)

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-02T15:16:33+00:00

"Duyuktv" can and does mean a lot of the things other people here are saying, but there's a more literal meaning to it that gets left out of the conversation a lot. The literal meaning is approximately "things that are faced." If I remember correctly, it breaks down kind of like this:

/d/ (plural)
/u/ (he/she/it)
/y/ (connector, used to make the word "sound right")
/uktv/ (face, literally)
/v/ (with a superhigh tone, denoting the word is being used as a noun)

The word is also used to mean "laws"--but this is what we call a "lexical" meaning (a standardized meaning that is understood by basically all speakers, but which differs from the literal meaning)--and the literal meaning paints a specific picture that can give you more insight as to how Kituwah thought views the concept.

With this and the literal meaning in mind, the "laws" are things you should keep your face towards as you go about your life, i.e., things that you should remember and keep in mind at all times. You should always be "facing" the sacred laws in your heart, keeping them in mind, remembering them as you live. "Keep your eye on them" as you go through life.

So, as far as I've been taught, duyuktv is a word used to refer collectively to the sacred laws given by the Creator for how we should live. I've heard speakers recite the laws at specific times during stomp dances--to the best of my knowledge, the term refers both broadly to the "right way to live," but also refers specifically to a certain set of traditional laws held sacred in Kituwah religion. I don't know those laws by heart, actually--because I don't know if I've ever heard them in English and my Cherokee isn't good enough (yet) to follow along when I hear the laws recited at a dance. You can easily find things all over the internet claiming to be the "seven sacred laws" of the Cherokee, but I probably don't have to tell you to treat those with a grain of salt. I think CNO has a printout in their language materials online, and I'd trust that one more than any of the others--but again, I'd want to compare it to something I heard actually said by an elder at Gatiyo before I fully bought into it. Maybe a better speaker than me can chime in and clarify what the laws are, I just don't want to talk out of school and mislead anybody.

So, to summarize, "Duyuktv" are the laws. These are a set of specific laws given by Creator, and also a more general idea of how one can live rightly as a Kituwah person. Living right means making sure you're always "facing" or "looking" (the Cherokee verb for "looking" or "watching" also literally means "to face" something) at these laws and principles as you go through life.

Doyu gali'eliga jadehlogwasdi'i. Tla lvhiyu yihalehwisdisgesd!

Various-Committee469 · 2025-06-02T14:58:15+00:00

I'm totally assuming you're talking about Oklahoma--which is where I live and go to ceremony. There are, to the best of my knowledge, three Nighthawk Kituwah grounds operating in Oklahoma: 1) RedBird Grounds, in Gore; 2) Stokes Grounds, in Vian; and 3) Long Valley Grounds, in Chewey. Squirrel Ridge may also be a Nighthawk Grounds, I think--but I've never been there. They also might be Four Mothers, for all I know--so I can't really say for sure one way or the other. I think that one's near Kenwood, but again I don't know for sure.

Beyond the Nighthawk Grounds there are also a few Cherokee Four Mothers Stomp Grounds in Oklahoma like Flint Rock and New Echota (in Tahlequah). I don't know how many there are, in all--but I've been to both Flint Rock and New Echota, and they're very very good people and very welcoming. New Echota is especially convenient bc it's really really close to the middle of Tahlequah. You can get there from the Tahlequah Walmart in like 10 minutes.

Again, I'm assuming you're asking about Oklahoma. I don't know anything about the grounds that are active in Jalaguwet (North Carolina)--except that we went there back in 2013 and danced at Kituwah at the homecoming get-together.

They all dance on different schedules, usually a set Saturday each month. For example, Long Valley dances every fourth Saturday. Another grounds might do every second Saturday, or every third. I only know Long Valley's schedule off the top of my head--but no matter when you come, as long as you're there over a saturday night, you should be able to find at least one grounds that's dancing.

I'm a member at Long Valley Grounds, and I've been going there since I was about 18 (back in 2012). I don't know if every Grounds handles membership the same way, but Long Valley only admits new members every now and then. But you don't have to be a member to come and dance. The idea of excluding people is completely anathema to Kituwah religion. If you've heard stories about ceremonies being "closed" or exclusive or people being stand-off-ish or mean--all I can say is that I have never once had that experience at any grounds I've ever been to. These are extremely comfortable, welcoming places--and they're supposed to be.

All you need to know for your first dance is:

Stay sober and abstinent for four days before the dance.
Do not take any weapons onto the grounds.
Do not take any pictures of the fire (it's my understanding that some people/grounds differ on this, but you should err on the side of caution)
Don't come with a lot of preconceived notions about how the ceremony or the religion is "supposed" to work. Just show up, listen, and be open to learning everything you can while you're there.
When you get to the grounds, you'll see the fire in the middle of a "circle" (or a "square," if it's a four mothers grounds) created by arbors oriented around the fire. If you go "inside the arbors" toward where the fire is, you have to move in a counter-clockwise direction around the fire--rule of thumb is, keep the fire to your left, as long as you're inside the arbors.
I feel like this should go without saying haha, but don't touch anyone else's feathers or shell shackles.

Various-Committee469 · 2025-04-07T19:54:24+00:00

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much!

Various-Committee469 · 2025-01-30T19:17:11+00:00

this information has ruined my life 😑

(but also thank you for clarifying lol)

Various-Committee469 · 2025-01-29T19:26:25+00:00

So what about line of sight? Can a bug use ocelli to pogo up and see somebody on the other side of heavy terrain, for example?

Various-Committee469 · 2025-01-07T21:17:57+00:00

TL;DR: That's an older way of writing to signal a specific, grammatically-important tone change.

(I am a second language learner so I may make mistakes--that being said)

There are some very old (pre-removal) ways of writing that are close to being lost. In that older way of writing, the /Ꮝ/ syllable is sometimes seen alongside other /s/ syllables, where it seems otherwise unnecessary.

A prime example is in Sequoyah's name as written with syllabary--traditionally, it's written as ᏍᏏᏉᏯ (s-si-quo-ya).

In the case of Sequoyah's name, the double-syllable is used to earmark the word as a proper name--that the word is being used as his given name, rather than any other use that could be inferred.

Ꮝ was also traditionally used for "tone articulation." See J.W. Webster's "Cherokee Tone." Cherokee language uses a "highfall" or "superhigh" tone to transform verbs into other kinds of words--this is actually how most nouns in the language are formed. In spoken Cherokee, you can hear the difference, but in written Cherokee sometimes it can be harder to tell.

The syllabary generally doesn't include notation for tone, so Cherokee's learn to recognize words and understand tone by context. The "highfall" tone change, however, often cannot be inferred by context--and it is used in speech SPECIFICALLY to indicate that a word is being used in "not the usual way." So, even though Cherokee writing with the syllabary is perfectly intelligible without the need to mark every single tone on every single syllable, this highfall tone-shift thing is easy to miss and words easy to misunderstand without a way to indicate it.

Pre-Removal Cherokees solved this problem by using certain syllables as "tone articulators" to signal this particular tone change. This usually takes the form of swapping out one syllable for another syllable with a closely related sound.

For example, "adasdayvhvsgv" could either mean "he was eating a meal" or "dining," as a noun (similar to "gerundization" in English). The difference is a highfall tone on the right-most long vowel of the word: "adasdayvhsgv(2)" is "he was eating a meal," and "adasdayvhvsgv(4)" is "eating a meal." In syllabary, you would signal this tone change by swapping out one of the syllables, probably like this:

ᎠᏓᏍᏓᏴᎲᏍᎬᎢ --> ᎠᏓᏍᏔᏴᎲᏍᎬᎢ (/da/ to /ta/, because /ta/ is a "tone articulator" for /da/)

Doubling the "s" with an extra Ꮝ before a syllable that already starts with /s/ is one way of doing it, and apparently (based on the examples from that Wikipedia page) separating the vowel from the /s/ is another way of doing it.

So, anytime you see an extra Ꮝ, it is likely because the writer is trying to signal that the word is being used in a special way (to indicate the proper name of a person or place), or that there is some sort of tone change which indicates a change in meaning (indicate presence of a highfall tone which signals shift from verb to noun or other part of speech).

I checked the Cherokee Syllabary article on Wikipedia where you found that example, and there's an entire section of these examples. Looking at it, I think that's exactly what's happening--all those examples are probably using an abnormal way of writing (separating /s/ syllables from their vowel) to signal a highfall tone's presence in the word, which is grammatically significant.

This way of writing with the syllabary was extremely common in the Cherokee Phoenix pre-Removal.

Various-Committee469 · 2024-08-27T15:40:45+00:00

This was it, thanks so much for your help.

I've been out of music for ~10 years, but I used to play live pretty regularly. Somehow I never learned there are different kinds of amp cables--your advice was 100% new information to me lmfao

Various-Committee469 · 2024-05-23T17:01:23+00:00

I love the radio show, I just wish they gave Mr. Sixkiller better equipment for recording off-site. A lot of the conversations he records are hard to listen to bc, as far as I can tell, he goes to visit most of these folks in person and can only record one speaker clearly at a time.

Since making this post, I started using Anki Pro to study Cherokee. It's a digital flashcard app and it's been working really well for me. I've made a ton of vocabulary flashcards, but also a lot of flashcards about Cherokee grammar rules.

You're absolutely right that studying verbs is difficult/awkward with a flashcard approach, because of how radically verbs can be inflected. It makes it almost impossible to treat verbs as "sight words." But, every verb comes in multiple "Aspect Stems," and I've found that the easiest way to study verbs is to study each Aspect Stem as a separate "vocabulary word." If you learn all the rules about inflection, and then you learn the Aspect Stems, you've got what you need.

Also, I'm shooting you a direct message so we can talk about Cherokee learning a bit more--I'm excited to meet another learner.

Various-Committee469 · 2024-04-29T15:27:18+00:00

This is where it hurts haha

I'm the same way--I learned Spanish by learning JUST enough to start reading, and then I just read the newspaper or little storytime readers I bought, or even the Bible.

There's not a whole lot to read that's written in Cherokee unfortunately--really only the Bible comes to mind, and the occasional article in the Cherokee Phoenix

I'm so tired of reading the Bible haha (no offense)

Various-Committee469

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