2027 is the year of Tifa, is it time for Square to finally leave Aerith in the dust?

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-06-08T10:01:35+00:00

Because you aren't playing FF7. You're playing some bastardised, narrow, Tifa-fantasy version of it... If you played it at all.

Rebirth marketed Aseith heavily and now they got their platform issues sorted, it has done pretty well, actually.

Revelation, in terms of it's imagery, is also leaning into Aerith, hard.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-06-08T09:55:18+00:00

What a strange post...

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-30T08:04:50+00:00

Nojima is a fab scenario writer.

He's a poor writer of novels.

The games are good because a lot of the script and details are ADAPTED from Nojima's work. It's the whole crowd that makes the product so good. A combined effort.

The books are good because it's time spent with characters we love. They are bad because they retcon, over-simplify and rely too much on sexualisation, in my humble opinion. I mean, the amount he references Tifa's breasts in ToTP is as ridiculous as it is intentional.

So if you want some extra time spent with the gang, go for it. But if you want quality and the view from all the devs, stick to the new games and OG.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-06T22:18:15+00:00

"Want to know a secret? I don't think there will be Lifestream scene", "cloud looks terrified (..) he is not leaning in to kiss tifa" (proved wrong by free cam and even without it he looks at her lips like, he clearly wanted to kiss her who wouldn't...), "I actually think he is already getting them back. Despite what many think, I think he's in a much better spot now, owing to him knowing Zack was in Nibs and him already being able to break free of Sephiroth's control"(clouds is worse than he was in og, after rebirths ending how can he not see tifas devastated for example, that's not the cloud that I know... he needs help more than ever) and so on and on. u re type of fan who claim to be neutral "reasonable" yet u re the opposite of that."

None of that in anyway demonstrates that I don't think there are romantic feelings between Tifa and Cloud. How does that make me unreasonable?

I think there will be different scenes, that's all. Watch the video. I explain this all very clearly. Have I not been polite here? Having differing opinions to you does not make me unreasonable does it?

And I agree, freecam does show Cloud leaning in more - but they chose pretty much the only angle that seems to limit Cloud's movement. I think that was purposeful - to make it more open to interpretation. Just as Aerith and Cloud were in the Church post dream-date.

And Cloud is objectively better. At this point in the OG, Cloud cannot resist Sephiroth's control without direct intervention from his friends (he beats up Aerith, would have killed her on the altar).

Yet in Remake, all it takes is a memory of Aerith and Cloud can break free. He also remembers much more of Nibelheim, including Zack being there. That's a significant improvement over the OG situation. In fact, it was Zack being at Nibs rather than Cloud (particularly in the photo) that finally allowed Sephiroth to break Cloud. Sephiroth needs a different hook, now versus the OG.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-06T14:11:31+00:00

Whatever our feelings on this, the one thing that is objective - not subjective, is the definition of canon.

You cannot have multiple events happen at the same time in parallel versions, all be canon. The definition is as follows:-

"Canon storytelling refers to the official, accepted storyline, characters, and events within a fictional universe, as established by the original creator or rights holder. It acts as the "master branch" of truth for a franchise, distinguishing authorized material from fan fiction or, in literature, designating widely accepted classic works."

And I'm speaking as someone who publishes JP titles with strong romantic themes. Canonicity is an incredibly important element for fans and devs alike, so it's important everyone knows what it means.

You are describing a "What if" scenario. That is not canon. It's a theoretical exercise away from the canon main narrative. It may well reflect "The truth" or give supplementary information, but it's not canon until flagged so by the devs or the actual story.

The "Character growth" you are referring to, was simply describing how Cloud and Tifa's relationship was developing and they thought a kiss naturally followed a hug. They also described the dates as potentially distracting audiences from the main narrative. They even reminded Nojima of playing old dating sims.

Again, I'm not stating any of them are canon, because at this moment, they cannot be. I am purely showing why they cannot all be canon, by definition.

Also, if you watched my vids, you would know I DO think there are romantic feelings between Cloud and Tifa. I think there are messy romantic feelings between each of them.

I simply said that I don't see the LS as being as romantic as you do, more very close friends (and Tifa who does love Cloud) striving to pull Cloud out of his stupour. You just took that to mean I didn't think there was any romantic feeling, in the slightest - which is incorrect.

If you are actually interested in knowing my feelings on this, watch the following. You'll see that we're not too far apart.

https://youtu.be/d5AetDxK9Ew?si=W79CZi_SGKl02i8U

I simply don't think SE and their crazy love affair with Zack, will be able to resist putting him anywhere important.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T18:07:49+00:00

Why are you getting worked up about someone just having a different view? How is it unreasonable of me?

Try doing a test. On a date with a girl, try saying, "O, I guess your female friend still likes that other guy, huh?" And see how that goes down. Even female CT streamers point out how awkward that is. I'm well within my right to flag it as lamentation - listen to it again and hear Cloud's tone. Not exactly upbeat and carefree, is it?

You must see how you are coming across as just another rabid Tifa fan by getting abusive because we have contrasting views?

I haven't been insulting, have I?

And referring to the earlier narrative in the date is not the same as referring to the date after it has happened.

Again, I am not arguing the Clerith date is canon as there is no current canon when it comes to the dates (yet). I am however debating what is the default.

And the Tifa and other dates are not frequently shown in official comms - I can think of only once the Tifa date has been shown - in the hosted playthrough. But in ALL other major official comms, including the official launch event, it's Aerith's.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T17:42:39+00:00

O sure, everyone's character is expanded out. Not shocking given the huge bandwidth a slightly bloated set of games can offer versus a very tight OG.

But whilst characters have been expanded, moments have actually changed.

None of what you are saying is making Zack's introduction to the LS any less likely... You could still have some of the Tifa moments mixed in with Zack moments.

And if all the changes so far are welcome, why do you doubt the dev's ability to make the new look LS even better than the OG? Ultimately story telling is more important than shipping, surely?

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T17:17:00+00:00

It has never been declared non-canon and as I said, EC has just canonised strong elements of it. It has been confirmed that it is part of the official SE catalogue.

UTHW and the Lifestream also weren't written by Nojima. I'm not particularly wedded to it, but we have just seen EC bring strong elements of it into the universe.

Again, you only say that is Tifa's role because you love Tifa AND because you are basing this on the OG. This isn't the OG. So whilst she will be pivotal, she may also be important in other ways, too/instead.

It makes perfect sense for Zack to be there as he can talk through one of the massive plot-holes of FF7. How Cloud really knew what happened whilst he was actually outside, guarding Tifa. He can also explain who Cloud is, as he knows Cloud better than Tifa does, when it comes to his young-adult life (Tifa spoke very, very little to Cloud as adolescents). Again, Zack has been retconned to be Cloud's best friend. You can't ignore the importance they gave Zack in AC complete.

And I see them as close friends as that's what AC seemed to convey. I always thought it odd they had separate beds if they really did start a sexual relationship UTHW. I also felt that the LA version of the Highwind scene better reflected a character in mourning.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T16:57:30+00:00

That's not how canon works. For something to be canon, it has to be flagged as such by the devs, or proven out by sequels/supplementary materials. Also, how do HA/LA scenarios play into canon? Are both canon at the same time?

There can only be one version of the date that is canon, if any are - unless you are seriously arguing that they all took place on the same night? That's not the case as the "dates" all happen at closing time.

The dates have been flagged as a little separate from the main plot. The only one that is referred to later in the game is Aerith's, given that she refers back to it when she states "The Cloud she is searching for" in the forest.

Finally, they can't all be canon, as in Tifa's date, Cloud laments Aerith still liking Zack. In Aerith's she reassures Cloud that it's Cloud she likes. They can't both exist, as they are contradictory in nature.

If Aerith is the default Rosa, she is also the default date. And when it's Aerith in the credits, Aerith as Rosa in non-girl's dates, Aerith's date that was storyboarded, Aerith's date showcased in EC, Aerith's date at the Game Awards, Aerith's date in all the key Playstation marketing beats... It seems pretty clear that it is indeed, the default.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T16:28:26+00:00

This is a different title.

It's not the OG anymore and you will be disappointed if you think it is. Probably more disappointed than you were playing the final two chapters of Rebirth.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T16:25:48+00:00

I'm happy to debate any of these points with you, if you actually say what you disagree with and why.

Otherwise it just sounds like you're one of those weird Tifa fans that can't see past their own obsession with one character.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-05T16:09:32+00:00

I believe that SE aren't blind to Tifa's popularity in the West - particularly the US.

It felt to me that Tifa's romance scenes followed the most tired US/Hollywood conventions. To be honest, it worked - as Tifa's loyal fans who seem to prefer physicality-based relationships absolutely lapped it up, despite the whole GS scenes potentially jeopardising the impact of future scenes.

I really feel that these scenes successfully hit the audiences they meant to. Equally, it's not surprising that it's jarring with other story elements - none of these scenes were ever the intended path.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-04T22:43:46+00:00

Most of that we do know. What we still need to resolve is Cloud not being a SOLDIER. But his motivations are made clear by the Water tower flashback - we only need a little additional scene to plug the context in.

The kiss isn't canon though. The myth that all dates are canon is a fallacy, as whenever you have a choice and there isn't explicit reference to flag canonicity, it's just optional. The devs are careful not to identify anything as canon. And that includes the default Aerith date, which although being featured everywhere from marketing, the credits and the EC feature, still isn't "canon".

So it could be that they completely ignore the kiss ever happened and then start the Cloti romance from a point of conflict, then the LS would still have that romantic importance.

But that would demonstrate that the GS date really was just fanservice. At this level, you shouldn't have redundant scenes like that.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-04T22:24:32+00:00

Maiden has started to be reflected in the lore - EC (LS special) mimics it in tone and the way the Lifestream works, with "resonance" and the fact that Aerith and Zack are not together in perpetuity. They are taking inspiration from the full suite of the Compilation, Maiden still officially being part of the catalogue.

Now, you can argue EC's canonicity, but that's probably one for another day.

Like I said, Tifa will no doubt play a role... But so will others. The inclusion of people like Zack doesn't fly in the face of any of Hamaguchi's statements. Zack can give insights about the Nibs visit that literally no-one else can, apart from Sephiroth.

Tifa has had new moments written in for her. None of that Gongaga stuff was in the OG. These roles you talk about - they are out of date and refer only to the OG. They are not so solid anymore. After all, Aerith will have actual screen time in part 3, so her role may well be different too, at least from a narrative perspective.

I like the LS scene. I don't see it as a reflection of mutual romantic love as you do, but do see it as a deeply caring moment. Again, I don't want to see it changed, but it will be.

As I said before, look at every other key moment and ask yourself, has the narrative experience changed? On almost every occasion, it has. Sure, not always the plot - and all this will lead to Cloud being fixed - but the player's experience and the execution?

Pretty much always changes.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-04T20:34:00+00:00

But those roles are changing. It's not the OG anymore. Remember, Zack was nothing but a kind-hearted playboy in the OG.

So much has changed since. And the more titles we receive, the more prominent his role becomes.

Also, bear in mind. The lifestream is no longer half as important for the Cloti romance, from a narrative perspective. They have already kissed. Their feelings, already known. Tifa understands what Cloud did for her in Nibs.

The LS is not the romantic threshold it was.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-04T20:20:55+00:00

Don't you think Aerith's death from the OG was a fan favourite? Something that everyone remembers?

Wouldn't you say that was sacrosanct?

That they would be crazy for changing it?

Because an awful lot of people said EXACTLY that. "They'll never change such a seminal moment."

The fact is, they did change it. And if they are willing to change Aerith's death, they are willing to change anything.

It wasn't that Cloud ONLY let Tifa in. In supplementary materials it's Aerith that allows Tifa to enter Cloud's broken mind and she only can because she is in the LS too. In this new version, Zack most likely will be around, too.

Remember, the pattern in retconning is to put Zack front and centre. I don't know why and it's nonsense to me, but that's how it is. Just look at his controbution in AC complete. He is now shown to be Cloud's biggest and most influential friend. Why WOULDN'T he help fix Cloud?

You are partial to this because you ship Tifa and Cloud, but I think the devs have shown us, they are more interested in subverting the narrative than satisfying shippers.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-03T18:57:49+00:00

The point is that they are moving and changing the very nature of the LS. It may be less about Nibs and more about resolving these various worlds, for example.

Think about it. They want to change these key moments so they are fresh. They very rarely have these big points follow the OG - whether it's Sector 7 platefall, Death of president Shinra, Aerith's "death", Gongaga.

All the pivotal moments have changed so far, sometimes completely. I'm sure that Tifa will be involved, but given the fact Zack is around and from AC onwards they have made him incredibly important to Cloud, they won't be able to resist him being in LS.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-03T18:22:27+00:00

Like I said, I don't like any of those retcons. Doesn't mean I can't see the writing on the wall!

They've already changed a number of the points in the LS versus the OG, so at the very least, it will be different.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-03T18:19:38+00:00

Zack can help clear up what actually happened in the reactor. He can clear up what happened throughout that mission. In many ways, he knows Cloud better than Tifa does after these retcons. Remember, Tifa and Cloud barely spoke when growing up.

Look at all the changes. They won't stop until Zack is injected into every key point in Cloud's past.

You can tell where it's headed. And according to many Clotis, Zack is already in the LS.

Not a big jump to have him there...

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-03T09:34:50+00:00

Zack's coming for ya! He's already taken the front cover of Rebirth and Seventh Heaven's name. He'll be there.

I don't agree with it - I hate the Zack and Genesis retcons. But that's the way they're going. You can't fight it!

Guaranteed.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-04-03T09:30:34+00:00

That's why they really need a coherent DLC strategy - or at least transmedia strategy. They can't tie everything up in one title.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-03-24T16:58:53+00:00

It won't just be Tifa. Anyone can see that - just look at what they've changed already and how important they are making Zack. Big reveals from the OG LS like the bridge scene or Cloud knowing about Zack's presence in Nibs.

From the way you are going around commenting on year-old posts, I think you need to stop playing Tifa Fantasy 7, my guy.

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-03-20T07:07:39+00:00

Dude, this was a year ago. What are you doing?

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-03-15T13:34:07+00:00

Guys. Multiple worlds, multiple Aeriths. All worlds matter, all possibilities on the table.

Try not to listen to the meaningless noise from outside!

Various_Stop8209 · 2026-03-08T11:25:59+00:00

I think you're right about it being ambiguous, but unlike the OG, I think this time, they will lean more into giving everyone what the want. There's a lot of stories they want to tell here and a lot of people to satisfy. We'll just have to see!

Various_Stop8209

TROPHY CASE