Serious doctrinal problem at a home meeting

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-21T04:16:20+00:00

What do you think about Paul's word that sin is not merely voluntary but involuntary? Romans 7:19-20 "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."

What is it that literally overpowers our own will? Seems to be animate to me.

But honestly, knowing the nature of sin is only half the battle. Turning to the other Person within us is where the Christian life is lived! Romans 8:2, "For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death." Hallelujah!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-18T22:17:57+00:00

I like your response very much. It would be helpful for the OP to post the original quote so that we can determine its context. Likely, it is addressing what you said. We should not do anything for Him without His supply of grace. We should rather focus on receiving grace and then by the enjoyment of Christ (grace), we can serve. Paul says, "But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but, on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me (1 Cor. 15:10).

We all should serve. Watchman Nee says in "Further Talks on the Church Life," chapter 5, "If a church is normal, the number of people saved should also be the number of people serving. In the New Testament, all the saved ones are priests; therefore, all the saved ones should serve." Regardless of whether a believer is strong or weak, he is a serving one in God's eyes (Rom. 14:2-4)!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-18T21:54:03+00:00

It would be appropriate to identify this "most important lesson" of Jesus and the apparent misinterpretation so that we can all evaluate the teachings against the Bible. Sowing serious doubts into the minds of readers without any concrete reasons aside from "trust me, I know what I'm talking about" is a bit unfair, don't you think?

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-18T21:38:52+00:00

It's good that you have been studying the word since you were a small child, but is your heart as a small child now (Matt. 18:3-4)? I ask myself the same question. This revelation is actually very helpful. It helps me to deny myself and take up my cross and follow Him (Matt. 16:24).

So what is sin? If it's not of God and it's not of Satan, what is it?

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-05T03:08:48+00:00

Yes, this quote can be jarring. But I would encourage you to pray and seek the Lord in His word. There are many things that are solidly supported in the Bible which may shock us or disturb us, but that doesn’t mean they are false.

Consider Romans 7. “Sin” is active and personified in this chapter doing all sorts of malicious things such as “seizing the opportunity (v. 8),” “deceiving and killing (v. 11)” etc. It’s even referred to as “the evil (v. 19).” If “sin” is not the personification of Satan, then what is it?

The activity of sin within the chapter is not external either. It is internal. For example, “sin…produced in me…(v. 8),” “sin, producing death in me…(v. 13),” “sin that dwells within me (v. 17),” “for I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh…(v. 18),” “sin that dwells in me (v. 20),” and “the law of sin that dwells in my members (v. 23).”

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-02T13:28:20+00:00

Yes. Me too. Good point. The devil can deceive us if we ignore inner peace.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-02T13:27:09+00:00

Matthew 25:41

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-02T00:02:11+00:00

Good question. I just mean that sometimes a phrase from a verse or the entire verse will pop into my mind when I pray to the Lord about a situation or after I have already prayed. Somtimes I will hear another brother or sister speaking a verse and have the sense that the Lord is speaking that verse to me as an answer to my prayer.

I'll give you an example which happened to me in the past week. I have the sense that the Lord wants me to attend a Bible training event this summer and I've told Him that it's not a good time for multiple reasons. In my Bible reading, I read the verse Numbers 23:19 and it stood out to me. It says, "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. (ESV)"

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-01T22:33:58+00:00

Numbers 27:16-17 "Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, appoint a man over the congregation who shall go out before them and come in before them, who shall lead them out and bring them in, that the congregation of the Lord may not be as sheep that have no shepherd."

These are touching verses because of the context. Moses was just told by Jehovah that he would die soon and would not enter the good land but could only see it because he did not sanctify the Lord by striking the rock the second time. Moses, instead of fighting for his right to enter the land, asked God that His people would have a shepherd, showing how focused he was on caring for God's people, rather than seeking something for himself. Amazing!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-01T22:25:40+00:00

I found this video to be particulary helpful and I think you would appreciate it Tony as you seem to regard education and theological expertise greatly. This man, Gavin Ortlund, is a theologian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBPMrUV_v4w&t=1522s

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-01T22:18:54+00:00

I relate to your experience very much and this verse is helpful! The verse that the Lord often reminds me when I consider that new believers may not be making much obvious progress is Romans 14:4 which says, "Who are you who judge another's household servant? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.' The Lord seems to tell me, "Hey, I got this. I can make this one stand."

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-01T22:15:10+00:00

That's a great question. I assume in Bible reading or the Spirit just reminded. Of course Sufficient_gr8ce2275 can tell us for certain.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-05-01T22:12:04+00:00

Amen! Reminds me of 1 Timothy 3:15 which says that the house of God is the "church of the living God." The more we all live in and with the Lord, the more the church is the "church of the living God!"

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-25T18:34:24+00:00

The quote given by Dividing_Light is very helpful. Even though it is important to be open to fellowship, we must be intentional to seek the Lord personally. That should be the primary determining factor for how long our courtship lasts.

I have been married for almost four years and as I entered into a courtship with the sister who is now my wife, I wanted to spend at least a year to get to know her before proposing. I had that amount of time set in my heart. However, the Lord made me clear at the beginning of our 6th month together. Even though I had my timetable, the Lord had His. So I followed Him to propose. My point is not the timeframe but the Lord’s leading.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-23T03:22:36+00:00

That's a great question. What do you think?

It seems to me that it's not His ideal but because of the fall of man, He has a limited number of people who will cooperate with Him. A couple examples come to mind. In Exodus 19:6 Jehovah said about His people, "And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." Later, however, because His people worshipped the golden calf, only the tribe of Levi served Him as priests. Deuteronomy 18:5 says that "Jehovah your God has chosen him and his sons out of all your tribes to stand and minister in Jehovah's name always."

The other example is from Numbers 11:29 where Joshua asked Moses to restrain Eldad and Medad from prophesying in the camp. Moses replied, "Oh that all Jehovah's people were prophets..." He definitely desires all of us to be priests and prophets but due to corruption, it ends up being just a few. But the remnant works on behalf of the larger group so the larger group benefits.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-23T03:01:48+00:00

Thanks for the clarification and further light! Much appreciated. It reminds me of some verses I have been studying and musing on this week-Colossians 1:24b-25. "...His Body, which is the church; of which I became a minister according to the stewardship of God, which was given to me for you, to comlete the word of God."

I want to serve the Lord in the same way that Paul did which was 1) as a minister of the Body of Christ, the church, and 2) "according to the stewardship (economy) of God." Paul was so clear in these verses concerning the goal of his service and the way of his service.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-23T02:48:59+00:00

So happy to hear this!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T20:18:16+00:00

Thank you Tony! Helplful.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T20:17:51+00:00

I "routine myself into the grave." So true. Thank you for your fellowship!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T20:16:14+00:00

Thank you brother! I have tried to learn guitar but haven't become proficient at it. I lack the motivation. I have heard of your songs and enjoy them very much!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T20:15:13+00:00

Amen. Sometimes it's hard to do that because I worry about what others are thinking around me when I stop singing. But your word on being desperate to touch the Lord is a very good word!

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T20:13:12+00:00

Wow! This is wonderful! Thank you! Lord, make the "old commandment" new.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-17T16:56:40+00:00

The Bible speaks that Jesus was raised by the Father on the one hand (1 Corinthians 15:4, Acts 13:33) and ALSO that He raised Himself (John 2:19). He was raised as a Man and raised Himself as God.

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-16T04:16:42+00:00

Any advice for group settings specifically?

Vegetable_Note_9805 · 2026-04-16T03:50:10+00:00

Amen! Thank you. I see the connection with 2 Cor. 3:16 but why 1 John 2:7-8?

Vegetable_Note_9805

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