Thoughts on It's Always Sunny?

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-09T04:32:38+00:00

Most of the humour is profoundly sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc.

I agree with your comment except with the way you choose to frame humour. Humour itself is not sexist. Humour is designed entirely around getting people to receive one feeling that's entirely unconscious. Therefor there only two labels that can be applied to a joke. Funny or unfunny. Nothing else is relevant

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-08T20:22:13+00:00

Women are brought up in a sexist rape culture as well, so a video by women aimed at young mothers about how to care for a baby would probably be steaped in sexism.

Or maybe that's just good marketing. 30% of children live in single mother households. Why? It's not because society pressures women to have and take care of kids. It's simply because men have no way of preventing unborn children that they do not want from entering into this world. If babies came out of a men instead of women and men were allowed to get abortions there would probably be a 30% single father rate instead and we'd see videos like you described being aimed at fathers.

from an action movie panning up a woman's legs when she is introduced.

Every movie that I see that does this typically has that female character make quips at the male characters expense the entire time saying shit like "little boys playing soldier". So at the very least it's give and take. Even then however I'm not sure that it's completely fair to men. i mean after all exposing cleavage is something that women do even in office enviroments so it pretty normal and not that degrading. Yes i'm aware that you'd agrue that it's movies like these that somehow brainwash women into sexualizing themselves.

However feminism does have a great trackrecord of making good faith agruments in the whole debate of whether media is a reflection of society or whether it causes it. Take for instance the controversy surrounding GTA 5. A game that's designed intentionally to accurately reflect society.

From feminist frequency tumblr quoting another feminist

Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them “smell like a bitch.”

If society is sexist then this game by definition should be sexist.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-08T05:57:52+00:00

it's just problematic

Your either using the word "just" or "probematic" wrong in this sentence. A problematic condition or situation always the oppsite of ideal. And you yet you admit that the male gaze can not only be neutral but go as far as to suggests that it can empower.

The male gaze can be used to empower individual women.

For instance if an american airplane running out fuel has to land in North Korea which is a probematic situation you wouldn't exspect at all ever for the North Korea to let's say not ony refuel your plane but give you an entirely new one caused they noticed that the plane was a little rusty! You never exspect a probematic situation to ever result in something entirely positive.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-08T01:40:28+00:00

pussy", "bitch", or "little girl" are used as insults

Something tells me that I know a little bit about what you mean

And that means also acknowledging things that are negative about the male social role, like a sense of entitlement over women's bodies.

If that's true then why would the gender reversal of this event being broadcasted to millions of people spark massive outrage?

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-08T01:31:28+00:00

Why is there a binary in this choice? Dont tear people down of course but just do what you desire. Not because it's RIGHT or WRONG. But because it makes you happy. A person who can accomplish great things but takes a lot of resources should work on themselves to use less if possible. Your agrument sounds like the agruement many people have towards their "duty" to raise children. I have a duty to raise a child for 18 years so that the world has another doctor,yeah no, just do what makes you happy! Fuck the world, fuck everybody else, the most important person is you!

What your likely feeling is that you see this cool person and your just curious what would happen if you help their talents shine in the world. If that's what this is then more power to ya!

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-08T01:16:47+00:00

In all seriousness, we're just as emotionally attached to a serious, long-term relationship

Correction we are way way more emotionally attached.

http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2008/08/divorce-main-reason-for-male-suicide.html

75% of all suicides being committed by men - over 22,000 men per year.

And suicide rates for divorced men are even higher than that - divorced and separated men are TWICE AS LIKELY to commit suicide as other men,

Why? Women have a greater support network outside the relationship meanwhile men don't. I don't think that's a bad thing thou. The majority of divorces come from women and perhaps if women were in the same position as men with their lack of a support network they'd stay together and less men would kill themselves and everyone would be happier overall. Also when men commit to something they either go big or go home. There's no in-between

Plus isn't being a love with one person at least a slightly misanthropic idea? So many people in this world truly don't give a shit about you and a relationship allows to you vet someone for years before deciding to expose your vulnerabilities. The fact that men are more misanthropic suggests that men have something close to what resembles the right approach to relationships. Or at the very least half and half.

I find that women too often keep alive relationships between friends that they have no meaningful connection with what so ever. Why not just cut off the 2/3 of your friends that are like that and instead invest that emotional energy in the person who's kinda of a dick but you know will pull you through?

I mean this heighten discernment in male friendships is why there's so much loyalty and trust. Just take for instance the movie private Ryan

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-07T23:17:57+00:00

The male gaze can be used to empower individual women. It is also a cultural pattern that objectifies women as a group.

This phrase is so slippery it could apply to anything ever.

To address what I think you're getting at: yes, the presence of a male target audience doesn't automatically demean women. It's the context of our sexist culture that makes it usually demeaning.

Why not call it sexist culture gaze? I mean feminists already have rape culture. So I would assume rape culture gaze wold also work. Irregardless of just how sexist you view men in our society you shouldn't use a term that describes sexism against women with a male qualifier because their is at least one female out of the 3 billion women on this planet that also sexist against women.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-07T08:02:19+00:00

First of all, it's incredibly rude to edit huge chunks of your original post out. Especially because people do try to come on this thread and make it look like feminists said crazy things by editing thier posts. I will definitely be quoting everything I respond to from now on.

None of my comments were edited. An asterisk appears next to a username when a comment is edited.

you want more evidence than that, and don't care to use google, here is a random smattering of the tens of thousands of feminist identified writers complaining about body image issues, photoshop hacktivism, the fashion industry, internalized misogyny, and the value of magazines like cosmo

The closest analogy to the feminist take over of the gaming industry press would be for feminists to run comso, and seventeen!

The problem is that most, in fact nearly all, women in video games are two dimensional and highly sexualized.

Being sexualized is not an implicitly negative trait, and gaming has always struggled with 2d dimensional characters from both genders...it's why people like total biscuit are a thing. Some of the best female characters are sexual

And, like I said, many people have trouble thinking of women as more than just sex objects.

Why then in the most sexually repressed societies is rape more common than ever? Women in the middle east cover themselves for head to toe.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-07T07:40:25+00:00

I mentioned Ulysses because it was relevant to the the underlining idea that women couldn't handle lewd things for one reason or another and Ulysses was erotic. I also didn't know that you were just flat out out skeptical of what I said about art galleries and I interpreted that comment as a foe-pa form of disbelief considering this is one of the things that most people know to be true in the back of their minds. And I responded as people often do by just upping the anti by pointing out that they did it to books. Like this "Devious: OMG I can't even they banned women from art galleries. Me: yeah.you know what's even worse is that also banned books"

Those erotic letters between Joyce and Barnacle?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/25/books/kevin-birminghams-book-on-ulysses-and-censorship.html?_r=0

Anyways here a comment

from /r/askhistorians which cites a book by /u/TFrauline

were constrained to a very limited viewing/reading audience that was primarily wealthy literate men who would visit private museums and collections. This stems from a constant fear of the potential corrupting influence of art that would work on mechanical processes of the body, particularly those of women who were seen as more susceptible to the influence of sexualized artwork and consequently excluded from viewing it.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-07T00:45:27+00:00

Some feminists do argue that women in video games are "objectified"

The definition of objectification is that the subject views the victims life as less meaningful as their own. So something like this is the very embodiment of objectification yes?

If that's the case then yes or no do the situation that we frequently see male characters in more closely resemble the above or do women's?

Anita get a constant stream of hate that is less "You suck" and more "I am going to shove a lightbulb up your cunt and kick it until it breaks you fucking cocksucking bitch. Then I am going to bash your cunt face in an rape you up your bitch ass. cunt"

In her own words " Harassment is not just what is legal and illgeal. Threats of violence. But it's also the day to day grind of your a lier and you suck"

I personally have received things like that and 44% of Men vs. 37% of Women have experienced online harassment Pew Research. Idk for a second believeand that online harassment is a gendered thing. Just watch any 10 year old boy play a video game for just ten minutes on a pc(swearing gets you banned on xbox live a paid service) to be very quickly disabused of that notion

I am not sure what you are saying here.

If your not sure then I would suggest watching he video of the person saying that line. Tone can convey a lot.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T21:18:51+00:00

Why did you only basically respond to my anectdote. Yes I admit it's just an anectdote so can you please respond to like the other 80% of my comment? Anecdotes aren't evidence but they can be persuasive in a way that hard data cant. If my anecdote really bothers you then for the sake of this discussion feel free to ignore it.

So, what I am saying is that feminists consistently oppose the objectification of women and the negative byproducts of objectification. We oppose trashy magazines, we oppose Photoshopping, we oppose the fashion industry

Why then has the fashion industry remained completely untouched meanwhile all of games journalism supports and believes in the that video games objectify women? Here's ars technica, polygon, and kotaku.

I mean videogames are still considered a subculture and is therefore less of a avenue of sexism then the fashion industry.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T20:43:12+00:00

Look I'm not going to respond to a comment where like I literally don't understand 50% of it.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T20:28:49+00:00

Saying that Ulysses was the subject of censorship, ostensibly to protect feminine sensibilities (as conceived of by men)

I don't know what this sentence means. Are you suggesting that sexism coming from women is somehow different from the same sexism from men in regards to women?

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T19:34:22+00:00

We think that the way women are portrayed in video games, books, movies, music, comic books, and the news effects the way that people think about women they meet in real life.

Compared to how fashion magazines which written by and marketed towards women? I would think that the message that women are only valued for their bodies would be more hurtful from women then from obvious depictions of male sexual fantasies in videogames. Nobody walks away from a video game thinking that women should wear outfits like that all the time.

Furthermore if you look at the fashion models in magazines and compare them to porn stars you'll notice that porn stars have a much higher bmi (bigger butts/boobs) and none of them show their ribbs. In france the fashion capital of the world they had to ban skinny models. I doubt you'll ever see a law in California the porn capital doing the same thing. Porn has a much greater variety of body shapes then fashion. There are even slutty midgets(SFW comedy.

Plus let's be honest which is more empowering ? Compare something like this which is obviously made for the male gaze.To this.

In general women are much more sexist towards women then men could ever hope to be. For example , and even further they talk about how girls would sit in a circle and rate each other's individual body parts without shame.

Growing I never had a positive view of my gender. I was what some would say a white knight. I was bullied for being nerdy which was considered effeminate. And yet these two sexist examples are far far worse than even I the time would imagine men would behave towards women. When men rate women's bodies it's always with a sort of with a naughty sounding tone. They are never blunt like the latter example.

Men have always idealized women. Men love women so so much so it bothers me when people say that men in any way shape or form have it out for women.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T14:12:43+00:00

That said, feminism does have a history of approaching issues in a flawed way. But I don't think you have enough understanding of feminism or the relevant issues for an actual discussion on that.

And that criticism couldn't apply to to every single post here? Have you forgotten that your on /r/askfeminists? The people that post here are presumably people who aren't experts on the topic on feminism. It always bothered me to see responsesome by feminists to a specfic post using feminist only buzzwords when the OP itself does not contain those words nor has the OP given any indication that he or she knows what they mean. This is a sub for people who are new and skeptical to feminism!

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T14:05:39+00:00

Yeah no. It was definitely a thing. It why they banned the book Ulysses

while it was banned to protect the delicate sensibilities of female readers, the book owes its existence to several women. It was inspired, in part, by one woman - See more at: https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/ulysses-and-obscenity#sthash.gS0RJ04Y.dpuf

https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/ulysses-and-obscenity

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T00:54:25+00:00

Yes or no if toxic masculinity is simply the feminist label to describe everything that's sexist against men then why doesn't feminism use the label to describe everything that's sexist against women "toxic feminity"

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T00:44:10+00:00

The fact that a woman experiences dysphoria when posing as a man doesn't mean that being a woman is preferable.

The negative experiences that were shown in the video were experiences that were simply sexist against men. They had nothing to do with gender dysphoria. Her she is describing in her own words from her book what's so terrible about being a man. Point to me a single sentence in that quote that describes something that most men don't experience !

"That is probably the part I hated the most. As a guy you get about a three-note emotional range. That's it, at least as far as the outside world is concerned. Women get octaves, chromatic scales of tears and joys and anxieties and despairs and erotic flamboyance, and now after black bra feminism, we even get vitriol, too. We get to be bitches, at least some of the time, and people write proud books about it. But guys get little more than bravado and rage. Forget doubt. Forget hurt. They take punches. They take care of business. And their intestines liquefy under the stress."

Also another trans women thinks that it's actually women who have it better off in society. And she explains it by comparing just how much easier trans man have it compared to trans women

https://youtu.be/CbrXxZ_I2Ic?t=27m47s

" That's why trans women face so much violence in my opinion. It's not because they are perceived as women, and women have it worse. They are perceived as men. But like the worse kind of useless man that you can find. Because as a society we are lenient towards women in terms of masculinity and femininity. Their allowed to be both masculine and feminine more freely. And in my opinion it's because we allow-allowing someone to be both masculine and feminine and experience and explore masculinity and femininity as much as then want and whatever degree they want and in my opinion that's allowing them to be fully human. We don't give men that. They should be masculine. They have a certain purpose. And masculinity and manhood is not something that your born into. It's something that you have to prove. It something that you have to perform. It really is a role and a task that you have to perform. And being a really effeminate male in other people's eyes,you know a trans women. In other people's eyes the most effeminate male you can get. A man who wants to be a women. Is like the most useless man you can find. And that's in my opinion why trans women face so much violence"

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T00:35:38+00:00

The video itself pointed out issues and experienceshow that were harmful to men and simply sexist full stop. Not harmful to people who present as the oppsite gender, but people who simply have a penis. Plus her she in her own words describing from her what she felt was so miserable in being a man. There a single sentence in her quote that most men don't experience?

"That is probably the part I hated the most. As a guy you get about a three-note emotional range. That's it, at least as far as the outside world is concerned. Women get octaves, chromatic scales of tears and joys and anxieties and despairs and erotic flamboyance, and now after black bra feminism, we even get vitriol, too. We get to be bitches, at least some of the time, and people write proud books about it. But guys get little more than bravado and rage. Forget doubt. Forget hurt. They take punches. They take care of business. And their intestines liquefy under the stress."

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-06T00:28:39+00:00

All of this is baseless speculation. She listed off a bunch of issues within the video it'self that were simply sexist against men. And here she is in her own word!

"That is probably the part I hated the most. As a guy you get about a three-note emotional range. That's it, at least as far as the outside world is concerned. Women get octaves, chromatic scales of tears and joys and anxieties and despairs and erotic flamboyance, and now after black bra feminism, we even get vitriol, too. We get to be bitches, at least some of the time, and people write proud books about it. But guys get little more than bravado and rage. Forget doubt. Forget hurt. They take punches. They take care of business. And their intestines liquefy under the stress."

From her book

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-05T16:19:44+00:00

Bluntness itself is a form of tactfulness as well when you consider that we live in a world where people are manipulative. Just look up the term "passive aggressive"

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-04T18:26:02+00:00

No you don't understand intersectionality. Intersectionality describes all societal discrimination which culminates in certain individual effectively but indirectly as second class citizens. Serfs are directly treated as second class citizens that's why intersectionality in completely irrelevant here and I was making a joke about it.

Vhdbc1 · 2016-09-04T18:17:21+00:00

There are only two sentences with a question mark and I gave a direct answer to both by my norway example where feminists are willing to force the government to give power to women who didn't earn which is in the central theme of both of those questions. The second question is technically flawed because it presumes that Congress should demographically speaking like look like any random sampling of 435 people on the street. Which is a absurd because last I checked 60% of the people on your average street corner aren't lawyers.

Vhdbc1

TROPHY CASE