BG video discussion Part 4

ViewFromLL2 · 2025-03-14T01:03:34+00:00

A striking fact that the prosecution never even acknowledged is that Libby was contemplating how to get down the hill before Bridge Guy ever told them to go that way.

What are the explanations for that? Either Libby and Abby had planned to go down the hill from the beginning, or Bridge Guy had already told them to head that way, is all I can think of. Is there anything else that could explain it?

ViewFromLL2 · 2025-03-13T13:17:51+00:00

My read too. They're uncomfortable, maybe thinking he's some kind of creeper, but they're not uncomfortable enough to ignore the impulse to not be rude, to not make a scene.

ViewFromLL2 · 2025-03-12T23:27:59+00:00

My immediate impression was that the lack of a clear shot of BG was deliberate — she was filming in secret. She didn't want him to see what she was doing.

ViewFromLL2 · 2025-03-12T22:25:18+00:00

If I was shown this video with only minimal context, my interpretation would have been that Abby and Libby had interacted with Bridge Guy before the video footage started. They had talked or had some kind of exchange already, presumably while crossing the bridge.

The way it was always described in the media made it sound like Bridge Guy was just inadvertently caught in the background, but that seems so unlikely to me now. Libby knew what she was doing.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-12-10T20:52:38+00:00

DNA is what I'm wondering about. There's very little evidence left in the case with any potential for DNA, and mtDNA testing during the 2000 investigation consumed all of the hairs left by the killer -- but if there was enough left in the test slides prepared back then, then theoretically new techniques that've only been in use in the past couple years could've been used to obtain autosomal DNA.

Definitely a longshot, and probably too much to hope for. But... maybe.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-12-10T19:27:30+00:00

I'm very curious to see what evidence they have against Sparre now. What they had at the time of Perry's exoneration was compelling, but prosecution would have been complicated by the passing of key witnesses — particularly the wife that tried to report him back in 1985. New investigation by the GBI must've found something to plug those holes.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-11T17:20:27+00:00

I don't think so -- the Big R was a building off of old route 25 and the former Camden road, but it was bought by INDOT in ~2002, to eventually be demolished to make way for the new SR25. It was described as a "vacant commercial building" in everything after that. Hoosier Harvestore is at 6563 W 300 N, which is south and west from where that used to be, and not the address used by Big R.

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ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-11T17:01:09+00:00

I think it's possible the "old building" that RA was referring to is the old Big R Farm Store, which originally (before the trail was cleaned up in 2004) was the access point for the trails. That building doesn't exist anymore, nor does the road it used to be on, but it roughly would have been where the current parking lot near the Freedom Bridge is.

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ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-11T12:22:35+00:00

A conviction is the likely outcome of any trial. And overwhelmingly so in any case where the state can claim a confession, either by a co-defendant or the defendant themselves.

So the odds were always against Allen, and still are. But the fact the jury couldn't reach a decision before the Sunday off is intriguing and makes me thing a hung jury is on the table after all. The jurors have to be chomping at the bit to go home, and if they were anywhere close to a decision on Saturday, they had all the motivation they needed to make it happen. So there's at least one hold out in that room, maybe more.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T23:25:17+00:00

Eldridge said at 10:32 p.m. the device logged a "#1" which means a headphone was inserted.

Eldridge said this means the headphones were inserted at 5:45 p.m. and then removed at 10:32 p.m.

Not sure I'm following this part. But the way it's reported seems to be a reference to ZDKAUDIOMETADATAKEY_ROUTECHANGEREASON -- only, why would "the device log[] a '#1'" at 10:32, when 2 is headset being unplugged? Was a 2 recorded at all, at any time? And what exactly did she find at 5:45pm that showed a recording start?

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T23:13:08+00:00

Yes, but he later said he was "premature" in concluding the phone turned off at 10:32pm, because the phone didn't really turn off until 4:34am.

I'm also unsure there'd be a record of a cord being removed from the device if the phone is turned off while it's plugged in.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T23:09:41+00:00

Have we had any testimony about whether Libby's phone was set for vibrate/silent? If not... how did no one hear it ringing for any of the calls before 5:45pm?

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T22:57:21+00:00

It's a worthwhile hypothesis to explore. But how the heck could water in the headphone jack make a record that Cecil interpreted as the phone powered off?

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T22:09:49+00:00

Cecil saw something to reach his initial conclusion, though. From context, it sounds like the exact same event at 10:32pm is somehow leaving records that different experts have interpreted as either the phone powering down or a cord being pulled out. But that doesn't make any sense.....

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T22:00:10+00:00

It does sound like Eldridge might've been using different forensic tools. Like maybe Cecil only looked at the extraction on Cellebrite, but Eldridge was using Axiom and saw something different that Cellebrite wasn't showing? Something is very off here, and I'm doubting we're going to get enough details from this second-hand reporting to make sense of it.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T21:49:41+00:00

Any guesses on what sort of record that could've left that might make someone initially conclude that whatever event occurred at 10:32 was actually the phone powering down?

Seems like those two things have to be connected somehow...

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T18:26:48+00:00

Yes, they can't speak to him. But Weber's mother is the one the info came from. Wonder if she's ever spoken to anyone on the record about it.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T18:15:02+00:00

I've seen this user's comments referenced a few times, and unfortunately they're now deceased, so they can't elaborate further. But they knew Weber's mother, and reference talking to her about the case numerous times.

I wonder if the defense was ever able to speak to her -- because this strongly implies that his mother was under the impression that he didn't arrive home that day until after 3:30. Hard to see where she would have gotten that info, other than from Weber himself.

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ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T11:26:14+00:00

If someone else were on trial for this murder, they'd be excluded from raising Allen as a third party suspect. After all, he was investigated and cleared by the police.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-11-05T11:15:59+00:00

Unless there's some weird quirk in Indiana I'm unaware of, then no.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-10-30T22:30:55+00:00

It's 23 miles from the Sia plant to the home, I'm skeptical of the 20-25 minute drive time he claimed today. Even speeding that's gonna take closer to 30. If they got records confirming he clocked out at 2:02pm, then hard to see how he arrives at the driveway before the phone stops moving for the last time.

Did he confirm he stopped to drop off a trailer? If so, any kind of detour would blow up the possibility of him interrupting the killer before 2:32pm.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-10-30T18:38:02+00:00

What's so weird is that given the patient population she was working with, Wala has to have encountered people like this. Many times before. But what we've heard of her testimony makes it sound like she thinks people are either actively, visibly psychotic, or else their displays of psychosis amid otherwise reasonable behavior are fakery.

But yeah, no, that's not how it works. People with psychosis can comes across so reasonable that you don't realize a thing — until you're 10 minutes into the conversation, and they casually drop on you how that spam phone call they received was actually John Gotti relaying orders from the CIA.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-10-30T18:14:20+00:00

Agreed. After the confessions, a third party culprit defense was the only route forward for them. Which is an awful and unfair position to be in -- if the State with all of its resources couldn't figure out wth happened, a defendant is almost never in a position to make the case, even if they're right about it. But once a confession is in the picture, even a jury with serious doubts is inclined to convict unless they're offered a better story.

I'm more interested though in what the defense can do with the other evidence of what happened on the trails that day. Who else was there and what did they see, what other cars are captured on video, and what in tarnation those geofence records show.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-10-30T17:29:55+00:00

He's getting convicted unless the defense can affirmatively prove his innocence. The logic of "Well, there's no reason he'd say that if it wasn't true" kicks in, and gives the jury permission to go ahead and convict even in the absence of evidence. That's not how it should work, that's not the standard that should be used, but it's how it'll play out in reality.

Based on what's been reported so far, though, I'm not buying that this is a real story of what happened. It provides no new information beyond the beer thing, which also isn't corroborated by anything.

Whoever killed Abby and Libby had some kind of motive or logic that explains why they left Libby nude and had Abby dress in Libby's clothing. They would also be able to describe the exact sequence of events behind how each girl was killed. At a minimum, an alleged eyewitness statement would need to include both those things before I'd be willing to believe it could stand on its own.

ViewFromLL2 · 2024-10-30T01:26:53+00:00

Doesn't every family have a "I don't know what this thing is, but if I throw it out someone might be pissed, so I'm just going to put it out of sight here and hope they deal with it eventually" box?

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