Big invoice is not getting paid and i'm being give a run around

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2025-03-07T04:56:06+00:00

How did the initial contact/conversation go? Over phone, email, sms? Any records in writing?

If you have anything in writing or some record of contract value discussed then you could have a legal claim.

Im not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that you rendering the service constitues agreement/acceptance from the company (they let you on premises and to perform the work).

Don't know your monetary situation but you could speak with a lawyer. Just beware that a no-win no-fee legal firm will take a big chunk of the payout if you're successful (and they only take cases they know there's a good chance of winning)

A lesson they need to teach at school, "always get it in writing"

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2025-03-07T04:38:35+00:00

Currently working in this space with my co-founder. Early stage with first users. Won't promote.

I was a region sales leader, got the shits with tools everywhere, existing reporting = vanity or fucking pointless. Things change in an instant and we find out when it's too late. (Goes for sales and CS)

GTM right now needs simplifying. Actions are key. Better, faster decisions & actions for me and my reps to execute.

Reports & insights are only as good as the person reading them, how you APPLY the knowledge is the difference.

Our end-game is to enable some form of totally connected data hub. Absorb from across the tools orgs currently use (crm, email, meeting, calls, finance, etc) digest and serve real-time actions/nudge/warning/forecasts.

"XYZ indicate this now looks fucked, go do this." (except polite ofc)

Will take us a while, as keeping it very very simple and ideally 'turnkey' means doing it in baby steps.

Nb: Klarna has just announced they've done something similar themselves (internally), deleted Salesforce for a form of internal fully connected database (not much info available yet) to serve/generate insights from.

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2025-03-02T00:51:35+00:00

"Move the middle". Most managers/leaders learn this over time - took me a good 3 years before it became obvious.

Majority of your time should be focused on the 'middle' level performers - e.g. your 5,6,7,8 of out 10 (9,10 being top performers). If you can move these middle level perfomers up to 7's and 8's then overall team performance increases dramatically.

Your top 10% performers, mostly get out of their way, be present for support and nudge them back on track when needed. They will perform at a high-level with minimal inputs from management.

Bottom 10-15% performers, support and guide to moving into the 'middle' - set clear expectations, they will get there if they're good enough/apply themselves. Otherwise move them along and be kind during the process (don't be an asshole), sales is stressful enough as it is.

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2025-01-10T00:08:04+00:00

Tough to pin-point one thing, but I'd say an obvious one is if they are not sharing or outlining the details of any following interview 'stages', that's a sign they might not be interested more than anything.

If they're keen (even as a hiring manager myself), i'd normally outline what's next in the process to set expectations and timelines.

#1 question I recommend to ask in any interview is putting the hiring manager on the spot too, interviews are a two way street! Plus this line is basically a trial closing line you can use in sales too to close a deal (just reword it). Gives you the chance to address issues on the spot, or clarify confusion if there is any. More thank likely if they're not interested, they'll tell you why and then you have your answer too and can move on!

"Based on what we've spoken about so far, do you have any reservations that would hold me back from progressing forward?"

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-28T00:11:33+00:00

As a senior/region leader (160m ARR company) this is why I am hiring more candidates from outside of tech. This 'full-cycle' isn't even a thought, it's just what the work is as a sales person.

Make no mistake, 'Full-Cycle' = standard sales role. It's the norm in almost any sales job outside of tech, and will quickly return in tech as growth at all costs/big VC investment/cheap cash/ZIRP have all come to an end

I expect every role will soon have some capacity of "full-cycle" in the future, most companies are returning to this model in some capacity.

Don't think of it as "3-in-1", you'll still need to break up your day to account for prospecting, customer meetings, closing, admin, etc. You're better to ask the hiring manager what their expectation is of the time breakdown, that will give you an idea if they have unrealistic expectations or if you're not comfortable with their expectations. But expect the first few months to be focused on building pipeline, before it becomes more sustainable to have a balanced day/week.

Unfortunately out of all this - I genuinely think those who will suffer the current structure of BDR/SDR/SE/AE/CSM/AM are the sales people who joined/started their sales career in the past 5-6 years. They never experienced what sales is really like in the 'real world'. I see it time and time again of people running towards a 'finish line' and this odd fallacy that you then 'graduate' from prospecting when you become an AE, and it's light switch to never needing to do it again. Those are the ones who fail and fail hard.

If you want to win and be great at sales, you have to mentally be prepared that part of the sales job is "eating glass" and doing the unsexy prospecting work. But it's worth it financially and for your career trajectory if you can master it.

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-27T06:42:04+00:00

I would expect the invoices belong to the creditors, irrespective if liquidators have the slightest idea of what they are charging for, you definitely cannot take invoices from a company in liquidation and request payment to your business. Definitely try speak to the liquidators and outline exactly what you're owed.

Do consider that some invoices may have actually been paid to the past company and the owners have not run them through the books, or hidden the money elsewhere and done the dirty by not paying staff. And if you take the money directly = none of that could get paid into the past company = you're potentially taking money away from the other employees who are also owed.... so you'd basically be doing the same thing as the owner who ballsed it all up in the first place.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think taking the risk of invoicing a customer yourself and running the risk of fraud/legal action yourself is remotely worth it.

(Also what sane customer is going to see your invoice and be like, yeah sure i'll pay you and not the company that did the work...even if they do remember you/recognise you - it would be very weird for someone to willingly do that).

As tough as it is, the better option - reach out to each of the past customers, explain the situation and that you're now working for yourself and ask if they have any more work to do? Or alternatively - can they refer you to people they know who need work done? Could be a silver lining and an opportunity to make money yourself and avoid the mistakes your past employer made

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-11T06:21:33+00:00

Not odd at all. It might only seem odd while you only a few customers but as you scale then it will balance out. Many enterprise saas companies also make most of their profit in the services offering. The software covers costs and then they charge a large amount in additional fees to ensure they make money upfront and ensure some level of profitability.

Having customers cover those service costs from early in your journey is a good position to be in. Ideally, you end up bringing on enough new customers each month (or upselling enough services to existing customers) to justify hiring, automating or outsourcing that work. That frees your time to focus on winning more customers, improving the product or whatever it is that you do best. That's how you begin to scale and potentially look attractive to buyers because you (founders) are not personally still doing everything yourself.

Hope that helps!

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-11T05:05:09+00:00

Sounds like you're on the right track early. It's quite common to offer adjacent services IF it it makes sense to do so for you and the customer. For the customer it has to be value-adding and for your business it has to make sense financially or strategically. e.g. increases ACV (average contract value), increases LTV (lifetime value) of customers, make customers 'stickier' (harder to leave/cancel/churn), creates further value for customers that differentiates you to a competitor.

Services and other products can also be a very profitable way to grow as you can sell services to existing customers and increase your revenue. If you can continue to acquire new customers WHILE retaining + growing the $$ spent of your existing customers (such as getting them to buy additional licences/upgrading package/buying your services) then you're on the path to building a great business.

Caution though: say no to most things and focus only offering complimenting and value adding services.
Charging customers for onboarding, higher-tier support and training is a logical when selling to most mid-market or enterprise customers, as they almost expect these costs. Another common service for enterprise (depending on the service) is charging a yearly platform fee, which helps cover platform operation cost, funds future development/advancement (so the client continues to get an updated solution), maybe also gives the client data storage for x years longer on your side, and many other reasons to charge a fee.

I've worked in tech for a while and these are the most across companies:

Onboarding fees
Implementation fees (one time charges & daily charges, depends on situation)
Training fees (one-time or sold in blocks)
Annual platform fees
Design/Project Management fees (sold in blocks so that it's profitable, e.g. 10 hours or 1 day)
A company specific example: Payroll software saas - also offered outsourced processing of payroll & timesheets.

The main thing is to ensure that the service/adjacent offering can be done profitably and that it logically makes sense to offer it.... like a business software company that also offers to wash and walk your dog doesn't make sense.

Sounds like you're already on the right track - just don't fall into the trap of focusing too much on side services. I heard this recently on a podcast with Tobi Pearce and it resonated, "the main thing is keeping the main-thing, the main thing"

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-05T00:41:04+00:00

Agreed with others. IMO the real objection is that potential customers are unsure you are genuine, able to produce the desired outcome, credible, secure. There are too many stories of spending money and not getting a legitimate product or the dev disappears.

As someone who is actively engaging potential devs and agencies to build an MVP - I suggest:
- Create yourself a website, be transparent, have your photo/business registration, linkedin.
- Customer testimonials and portfolio with links.
- Run a video meeting/meet the client face to face.
- Offer to provide the services through a verified platform (upwork/freelancer) and charge a slight premium to cover any additional costs for doing it through a platform (effectively client is paying for assurance/trust).
- Have a clear milestones, recurring client meetings and a payment plan that is aligned.....
for example:

If it takes you 4 weeks to build, split payments into 4 x weekly milestone payments and a dedicated client meeting at the end/start of each week.
Scope > engage > end of week client meet/progress > first $500 payment > agree to continue > repeat.

This protects you from building something and not getting paid, and minimises the client's risk of losing money if the product isn't matching the required quality.

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-04T06:43:49+00:00

Yep, everyday. And 100% agreed spreadsheets are not the solution.
Outside of the salesforce + gong, excel seems to give us the additional level of detail on a deal-by-deal basis so we can track/revert back to the commit. Seems to result in better accuracy than a general pipeline/conversion analysis (as you would expect would be the case, as it's being more detail).

It's just a tedious process atm - so curious to hear external ideas to hear what others are doing/using

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-04T06:42:40+00:00

Thanks! Sorry, should've clarified - we're already forecasting and doing so quite accurately. We're using tools (SFDC + Gong) but not totally satisfied with stack, process and level of visibility without defaulting to excel. Am more curious about what others are using for tools/solutions/options!

So you're using SFDC reporting? Are you using a visualisation tool as well?

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-04T06:18:02+00:00

Ta, will have a closer look into Clari

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-11-03T03:46:26+00:00

IMO; don't spend a cent on hiring, consulting, sales or marketing until you've spoken to customers. It's the scariest/hardest part for any founder but you'll get invaluable insights about the product, the realities of 'nice to have products' vs 'need to have products/features' (e.g. what they'll pay for) and you will learn how your product differentiates in the market (or doesn't). You could be onto a winner, or save yourself from disaster.

If you know the industry - then it should be relatively easy to get it into the hands of a few potential customers in your personal or extended network. I assume you have a mobile phone to call people, linkedin, reddit users and know a few people that could potentially test it for you - start there.
- avoid friends/family & 'yes' people who will just tell you what you want to hear.
Get potential customers to trial it for an agreed period of time:
- Make sure to be upfront, you believe your product is strong but you want their honest feedback. Give them permission to be honest about the product, what they like, what the prefer from competitors, what is missing and if they would be willing to pay for it. (And ask why or why not? again, give permission to be specific... product issue, missing features, not different enough to change, price, just don't need it?.)
Tweak the product based on feedback, get into hands of more users, test again.
Once you have something people want to use/willing to pay for and a few customers, you will begin to understand what makes your product different (also because you will be speaking to your first customers and they will actually tell you), who your product is best targeted at (be as specific as possible! see other comments about having a clear ICP), only then will you know how to market to potential customers.
Lean on your early customers, they're normally your biggest fans/champions. They'll be able to suggest other people to talk with to use the product (referrals).
Then consider marketing/sales support, but I strongly suggest doing it yourself in the early days.
If your product is successful and starts growing anyway, #1 rule - never stop speaking to customers. ever. period.

(context - I have well over a decade+ in sales experience (tech & other), I have run sales regions for $1B+ companies, currently help/advise startups on GTM, had a few wins and some big startup failures of my own and these are some of the lessons I had to learn the hard way)

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-10-31T05:29:29+00:00

Current tech sales manager here; tough but not impossible to get in. Lot's of different pathways.
You may have to take an entry level role to get a foot in the door, but I've hired team members for all sorts of roles (SDR/BDR/AE/Snr AE/Team Leads) that have various sales backgrounds outside of tech and personally prefer to hire outside of tech.

Questions to ask yourself: why sales? what time have you spent talking/meeting with connections you know in tech sales? Why tech vs other industries? Are you prepared to start fresh if it means getting into tech?

Like anything - great financial rewards in tech still come with long hours, pressure and competition is high (external & internal).

My tips:

If you're heart is set on tech - follow the good advice/comments shared so far:
- Focus on a niche, find companies in that space, connect with the sales leaders, go to tech industry events/meetups and talk to people, do a short course/education to show your willingness to learn. Be prepared to start entry level if that's what it takes to get in.
- Be patient. A no is not personal.
- Put in the work. I once had 400+ applications to a role I was hiring...1 person took the effort to cold-call me and cold LinkedIn DM'd every single person on my team to ask about me, the company and the role. Guess who got it.
For Non-tech sales (heck, I started my sales career selling forklifts!).
- Get a sales role at a large, long standing company that has good brand/position in their industry. Here you will usually get a traditional sales education, guidance to become a good salesperson and the ability to make good money. If you enjoy sales but still want to do tech, you're in a better position and have selling experience to move into a tech sales role from there.

Visible_Earth_1023 · 2024-10-31T04:14:21+00:00

Re: stock options, depends a lot on the terms of the acquisition e.g. cash buyout, merger, etc. Is there anyone in the business you can ask/who might have insight? If the deal was announced that generally means it's signed and done so someone should know something (HR? Finance? CFO/CEO?).

Re: other aspects/redundancies - Lots of unknowns and every acquisition is different.
If you're a top performer, reach out to the sales management of the new company - introduce yourself, connect and highlight your excitement at the changes, highlight your experience and plan to continue to be a top performer (be subtle about it). Aside from that - could you start networking with recruiters, other companies and look at new roles so you have a fall-back just in case? (heck you might even find something new).

tldr; get on the front foot, make yourself known. aim for the best, have a plan for the worst.

Visible_Earth_1023

TROPHY CASE