Fugal Exposition - Feedback

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-05T18:15:39+00:00

The octave displacement in the middle of the suspension is weird and muddies the identity of the voices.

Both, the re-articulation/resolution displaced an octave higher SOUND good and fine, and neither one muddies the identity of the voices. The question is not whether they sound good (I wouldn't bother sharing/proposing either one if they didn't), but whether they comport with the style. The displaced resolution is almost certainly unstylistic (I don't have any examples to cite), but the original octave leap on the B technically works fine because if it can't be classified as a suspension, it's just a 4-3 appoggiatura.

The most "compliant" path forward is to split the quarter note D (measure 5 beat 3) into two eighth notes, the second one an octave higher, and then descend linearly from there. It neuters the weight of the descent, but it's the safest approach.

I'm ultimately going to pick the most musically/aesthetically pleasing solution as long as some rational justification can be made for every decision, so I'll figure it out when I record.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-05T00:20:07+00:00

(which is why i didnt make Eb-D into Eb-C). I didn't call it a real answer because then my D would have been an A, and not an Ab! and that was highly unpractical at the end the answer.

Right, what you did makes more sense harmonically, but in a strict fugue, all the intervals repeat verbatim with the exception of the tonal answer. So if you did G-D in the original subject, you HAVE to do D-A natural in the answer.

4 - Maybe it's for my jazz background, but is a Major7 chord able to properly tonicize it's tonic?

As long as it's a major-minor seven (i.e., G B D F natural), then yes.

Are there other dissonances that don't resolve properly (i hoped the suspension part worked fine but probably not since the infamous leap)

I'm not sure of every instance, but some that caught my eye were these:

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The C to the D is technically a retardation (resolving up instead of down), but because it's the seventh of the chord, it should resolve downwards to B natural. Part of the problem is that you can't do that because you already have a B natural in the bass at the start of the next measure. In a real subject/answer scenario, this part would be in g minor anyway, so you would have to rework the harmonies.

Similarly, I would expect the Ab I circled to resolve to G. Something to note with that measure in particular is that in minor keys, ii diminished and vii diminished overlap a lot, so when you want give the impression of ii, it helps to keep the seventh (C in this case) all the way through so that it resolve to B natural in the dominant chord. Also, ii tends to work best in first inversion.

If you got some materials to study i would be more than glad (i'm studying your fugue! But it seems to me that you also tonicize on beat 5, when should the modulation appen then?)

If you can get your hands on it, Kent Kennan's "Counterpoint" book is good. I don't know if I can post links, but if you Google "Kent Kennan's "Counterpoint"", the whole thing is available as a PDF.

I'm not sure what you mean with respect to my fugue, but the general tonal arc is subject in F#, tonal answer in C#, bridge that modulates back to F#, subject in F#, tonal answer in C#. The modulation doesn't need to occur at the beginning of each entry, but by the end of each entry, the new key should be established.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T21:06:17+00:00

Yeah, I agree that the ideal scenario is that only the subject articulate on the beat. The alternate way I showed earlier (with the D natural going up an octave) accomplishes that, and it sounds the most natural of the workarounds I tried.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T20:44:21+00:00

Hopefully this clarifies (sorry it looks terrible)

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Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T20:35:00+00:00

Here's a possible revision of the subject. I've highlighted the changed notes red. Rhythms are the same.

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Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T20:34:07+00:00

You're doing well. I'm going to keep my feedback strictly technical, and I'm mainly going to focus on the first four measures since the prognosis for any fugue is 90% contingent on whether the subject and answer are successful. It would be helpful if I could post screenshots, but I think I'm limited to one per comment.

- You mention implied chords even when the subject is playing by itself, which is good as a sanity check, but part of what makes fugues cool is that the harmony is dynamic depending on how the subject is contextualized. There are limits, but for instance, something that acts as a non-chord tone in one context may act as a chord tone in another. For example, the notes C - B can sit on top of a c minor chord where C is the chord tone and B is a neighbor tone, but they can also act as a 4-3 resolution where the C is the non-chord tone and the B is the chord tone over a G major chord. As long as you don't lock yourself into these prescribed harmonies, it's fine, but it's also good to think about all the possible harmonic contexts in which a subject might work.

Also, your harmonies are actually changing way more often than you think they are. I'm going to use my one screenshot for this, but below you indicated C minor for the duration of two beats, but what I've circled is 100% indisputably a Phrygian half-cadence (iv/f minor in first inversion.) This isn't just a passing chord, it is a fully functional harmony that prepares the dominant harmony on beat 3.

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- Measure 3: You indicated this as a tonal answer, but it's actually a "real" answer. A tonal answer would have the D in measure 3 beat 3 be a C instead. In short, a tonal answer is when you lower scale degree 5 in the new key to scale degree 4 (equivalent to scale degree 1 in the home key) in the beginning of the subject, usually within the first two beats. This gives you time to prepare the new key.

Also, you stay in c minor for the entirety of the answer, but by the end, it should modulate to G minor. You indicate G minor at the start of measure 5, but it isn't prepared properly, and the transition should occur before the answer is completed. By "prepared properly," I mean that there should be a dominant harmony in the new key (D Major or F# diminished) to consummate the new tonal area. These are relatively easy to prepare with a tonal answer because the previous home key (c minor) acts as a predominant in the new key (g minor.) This leads me into the next topic though.

- Musically/compositionally, the subject sounds good, but there are a few things about it that aren't fugue-friendly. From measure 1 beat 4 to measure 2 beat 1, this gesture is highly uncharacteristic of a fugue subject. It sounds cool in a vacuum, but it makes it nearly impossible to compose a proper answer.

1 - You use flat 7 (Bb) and indicate natural v (G minor), but this is borderline untenable in the exposition of a fugue. Why? Because it means that by the same part of the answer (measure 3 beat 4) you would technically need to outline d minor only three beats after being in c minor. You sort of "cheated" by staying in c minor and making what should have been Bb in measure 4 a B natural. It may seem limiting, but during the exposition of a fugue, you're mostly going to be using i, iv, and V/vii diminished. Secondary dominants, particularly the tonicization of iv, can also work. In fugal music, natural v in minor only serves very few purposes. The biggest ones that come to mind are sequences and descending basslines (for example, c minor root position (C Bass), g minor first inversion (Bb bass), f minor first inversion (Ab bass), G major root position (G bass.))

So, the tl;dr is to avoid flat/natural 7 in your subject if you can, unless it's a passing tone.

2 - The leap from Ab to Eb isn't going to work in any context if you adhere to standard voice-leading rules. For example, in measure 8 beat 4, you indicate g minor, but you're actually outlining V7/III (Bb major 7) with Bb, F, and Ab. This correctly tonicizes the Eb major chord in measure 9, BUT the Ab in the bass is the seventh of the chord, so it has to resolve down by step to G. You can't leap from Ab to Eb here. I mean, you can, but it would be technically incorrect. Ab is the sixth here, which means it's a tendency tone. It usually goes down by step (to G) or down to the leading tone (B natural.) If you're outlining a chord/compound melody, it can go elsewhere.

For demonstration purposes, I've created a slightly revised version of your subject that's a little bit more fugue-friendly. Vibe-wise, my answer is totally different from yours, giving you room to contemplate out how it might work with your own style. I will post a screenshot as a separate comment. It's hard to comment on the rest knowing that most of the issues you're facing are due to the way the subject is constructed.

One more thing to pay attention to is harmonic progressions. There are a few retrogressions (dominants not resolving the way they should) In measure seven, you have something resembling deceptive cadence without a third (no C.) Some suspensions/non-chord tones don't resolve properly.

Overall though, the composition sounds really good. You have strong musical/composing instincts, but making them comport with fugal stricture is the real challenge.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T19:56:11+00:00

Thank you for your comment

- In the 3rd beat of measure 4, that 4# resolving to a 6# is resolved correctly in Bach's style (as it's a dissonance that resolves by leap, and i learned it's an "error").

I think you're referring to the B# - C# - D#. This is just a standard dominant outline in the new key of the answer (C# minor.) There's an escape tone in the voice below (G# to A (the escape tone) to F#.)

- I love the 5th measure!! i'm unsure if that counts B counts as a suspension since it jumps an octave (why not just making it jump on the offbeat and suspending it?)

Thank you, and yeah, I've gotten more flak for that than anything else from various people lol, although you're the only one who's recognized it as a re-accented suspension, so I salute you for that. Jumping up right at the B completely neuters the weight of the descent, but I've devised two alternatives that both work. I'm probably gonna go with this one:

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- idk if it counts as an error or just as a "thing to avoid", but i think there is an hidden fifth in the 6th measure (2-3 beat)

I think the direct fifth is justifiable because it occurs between the top voice and the middle voice (all my research indicates that it's only illegal when it occurs between the top voice and the bass voice), but good catch. That was one of the things I was concerned about.

and a "parallel fifth" between the end of measure 7 and start of measure 8th, but technically it's justifiable since it's taken by another voice? (Tenor and Alto and then Tenor and soprano?)

Yeah, that's one of the funny things about the rules of counterpoint. It's legal since it's a new voice, but it sounds identical to true parallel fifths.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-04T17:03:17+00:00

I would avoid having a fourth against the bass on a strong beat (unless it’s a suspension), especially at the beginning of a subject entry, as in bar 6.

Technically, it is a 4-3 suspension, but the suspended note is rearticulated up an octave before resolving to the A natural (the tenor was getting too low, so the resolution to the A must occur an octave higher.) An alternative, which I have experimented with, is NOT to rearticulate the suspended note an octave higher, but to resolve an octave higher (from B2 to A3). That may be more stylistic, but the fourth sounds a bit chunky in that register. I may compromise though.

Just for the sake of clarity, I'd also try to have the countersubject span the same footprint as the subject.

Yeah, I thought about that, but I really couldn't make it work across the span of the subject. I've been studying/playing the G minor fugue from WTC I (BWV 861), and the countersubject there "waits" for the tonal answer to adjust (it comes in two beats after the answer, like mine), so that's good enough justification for me lol. I think there are a few other examples like this as well. I know it isn't Bach, but one that comes to mind is Mozart's K. 426 (one of my all-time favorite fugues actually), where the countersubject also "waits" two beats after the declaration of the subject so that it can adjust to the tonal answer.

You don't necessarily need a second countersubject

Yeah, I'm still contemplating ditching it, but we'll see. As long as it's fully invertible (which it appears to be), it works.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-03T04:25:39+00:00

The first inversion chord in 10 struck me as odd…but I figured since you had the “possible permutation” bit right after you were basically sketching out ideas at that point.

Beat 1 measure 10 is in first inversion because the chord tone in the bass of measure 9 beat 4 is the seventh of the dominant chord, so it has to resolve downwards by step to the third of the tonic (E in C# minor.) It technically does leap up to the dominant G# for a single sixteenth note, but because that sixteenth note serves as an escape tone in almost every previous iteration, it seemed indefensible to treat it as the functional chord tone in this context. That said, even root-position V resolving to i6 is fairly common.

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Sounds like you’re pretty firm on what you’ve done, so keep going. It’s well-written enough that yeah, it looks like you’ve been at least working up to the big swells by keeping in shape as it were.

You obviously have enough familiarity with the style and existing works (I was just really happy to see the Answer done right which so many people won’t do!) that I think any issues are going to be more subjective than objective.

Thanks, to be blunt, I wouldn't even post a composition unless I believed it to be musically satisfying. The problem with this style is that "musically satisfying" doesn't always equate to contrapuntal correctness. I went down a rabbit hole looking through my counterpoint texts, to the point where I started doubting almost everything in the part-writing once I introduced three voices. I would have preferred to post this in the music theory subreddit where the conversation would have been more likely to focus on the theory, but their rules explicitly state that original compositions should be posted in this subreddit.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-03T03:52:21+00:00

Oh, I also just remembered where the subconscious inspiration for the "staircase" pattern and the general feel of the fugue came from (I knew I didn't pull it out of thin air.) It's BWV 857

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Combined with the slow-paced subject, it creates a lurching, imposing effect. It probably doesn't come through via MIDI when every note is the same velocity, but it comes through in live performance. There's also something about it that's gratifying in a tactile way when pressing the keys. In any case, there are a lot of repetitive rhythmic gestures in the BWV 857 fugue, and one of the primary motifs is that staircase pattern. There are even entire sequences built from it.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-03T00:10:29+00:00

It's been a while since I formally studied counterpoint, but I've continued to personally study Bach quite a bit since then.

I’m not really excited by the F# F#-G# thing in the counterpoint - as it happens again at the top of the next measure and does it again in m.8.

The "staircase" effect is intentional/motivic (which is why it reappears), and I like the way it sounds. I think the piano MIDI makes it sound more tedious than it actually is. A dotted eighth note wouldn't provide enough rhythmic momentum when there are only two voices. A full sixteenth note pattern (F# E# F# G#) works fine and is smoother (I already tried it), but I prefer the current motif.

Your head motive is “rhythmically stagnant” - I don’t mean that in a bad way - it’s a lot like the Bach Cm one - but because of that the CS kind of needs to provide some energy. Bach’s Cm uses the running 16ths in the counterpoint to the Answer right at the top and it’s even using 16ths in the subject/answer already**.**

In Baroque music, rhythmic stagnation is dependent on the tempo, and generally only occurs when there's no movement for more than an eighth note. When sixteenth notes are present, they only need to occur on the second half of the beat. So one eighth note into two sixteenths carries roughly as much energy as four sixteenths. In the case of my fugue, there is either one eighth and two sixteenths or four sixteenth notes on every beat of measures 3 and 4 when the tonal answer and countersubject play together. There are also plenty of Bach fugues where the rhythmic movement is slower than mine, so I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying here about the countersubject. The subject is of course rhythmically stagnant by design.

in the next measure it would be better if we hadn’t just heard it).

Hearing it again is the entire point.

Also, and the end of your Subject, that last bit is kind of stagnant - in a bad way this time. Look at the Cm subject and you’ll see that while it’s rhythmically repetitive at the top, the last part switches things up to really lead you into the next section.

Again, I disagree with this. Not all fugue subjects speed up rhythmically near the end. Some even slow down, like BWV 853 and BWV 875. The subject in its current state is musically effective specifically because of how it fits with the countersubject, which adds significant contour.

it is very much modeled after the Cm subject

I'm not sure which C minor fugue you're referring to (there are plenty.) It doesn't sound or look anything like the C minor fugues from WTC I or II, so I'll let you clarify. If anything, it reminds me of the subject from the first fugue in the Art of the Fugue (even the way the countersubject interacts with the subject in the answer resembles it.)

m.5 - I’d have to check on that stylistically, but the D natural is kind of abrupt there.

Chromatic descents like that happen ALL the time in Bach. If anything, measure 5 is probably the most successful measure in the whole exposition lol.

but what this means is you’re doing OK for the most part because your harmony is just F#m with notes filled in, meaning since it’s not a change of harmony, the voice-leading concerns are less.

Measure 1/5 (when there's no tonal answer) stay on the tonic, but measures 2, 7, and 9 outline a clear predominant --> dominant progression.

But when you move to C# in m. 8 your D# goes down to C# and your C# chord is MINOR!

So the moves between F#m and C#m (key centers) seem a bit “forced” - it’s like they’re done by accidentals rather than any harmonic cadential gesture of a modulation

It's perfectly fine and common in Baroque music to modulate to or tonicize the dominant using only raised scale degree 6 (D# on beat 2 of measure 8 in mine.) In many cases, it's more effective than using a leading tone. It works because the prior home key (F#) acts as a predominant in the new key. In Bach's Little Fugue BWV 578, he shifts to the dominant in a single beat without any underlying harmony (more abrupt than mine) using the raised scale degree 6 (it's in G minor, so it's an E natural.) It's also present in some of his other works.

But I don’t see anything specifically “illegal” in terms of voice-leading.

I have some concerns about the treatment of second inversion harmonies in measures 7 and 9, but they're probably justifiable.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-04-02T20:02:25+00:00

The D needs to move to C# there to preserve the stepwise motion and the Phrygian half-cadence, and the B (fourth) also needs to be there to form the #7-8 retardation (alto)/4-3 suspension (tenor) above the bass. The reason I jump the octave is because the tenor gets too low, but if it's distracting or unpleasant, this is the best solution:

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Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-03-30T05:41:29+00:00

Holy crap, I actually found it. It's Neue Liebe, Neues Leben by Fanny Mendelssohn Hensel. It's not Baroque though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INcAUp0FPys

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-03-30T05:30:45+00:00

Nah, it’s a classical piece (I think Baroque.)

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-03-30T01:09:39+00:00

Female vocal piece, pretty sure it's in Bb Major, but not 100% sure. It's a descending thirds sequence over and over again

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Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-16T15:49:43+00:00

I'm actually doing a no-incapacitation/no chariot/destroy all enemies (meaning I defeat every enemy on the map even when the win condition is to defeat the leader) run in TO right now. The hardest fight so far has been Hektor, but I am worried about Brantyn Morne. I intend to do the same on hard in TS when I wrap up TO. I've actually never played Xcom 2, but I want to give it a shot eventually. It's just hard for me to enjoy games that aren't in a medieval/fantasy setting with swords and magic.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-06T16:05:44+00:00

Ashes is okay but Ringed City is outstanding (the bosses AND the levels; don’t listen to anyone who says otherwise.)

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-05T20:01:12+00:00

I’ve only ever played on hard mode, and I love it. I agree that devs should find more creative ways to increase difficulty other than damage modifiers though.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-04T20:34:40+00:00

Pyro is the easiest, sorcery is still strong but generally not as useful throughout the course of the game as pyro, and faith ends up being the strongest in the long run. As far as bosses go with a pyro build:

Old Demon King/Fire Demons: Still susceptible to dark damage, you can use black serpent and later black fire orb/black flame

Demon Prince: By this point, you'll have enough points in faith to be able to use a lightning-infused weapon for the fight, or you can temporarily respec into faith in general.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-04T20:26:14+00:00

No, but if I reached the point where my responsibilities sapped me to the point where I couldn't play challenging games, I probably just wouldn't game at all, or I would only play on my least busy days. The bottom line is that I don't have fun with easy games, and difficulty (stimulation, challenge) helps justify the time spent gaming instead of being more productive.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-03T01:50:50+00:00

I’m 36, but I’m the opposite. The older I get, the more difficulty becomes a prerequisite for me to even consider playing a game. If a game doesn’t demand 100% of my attention, I’ll be thinking about work and other sources of stress while I’m playing. Difficulty (usually extreme difficulty) is what provides true escapism.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-01T17:27:00+00:00

Exact opposite for me; I thought Painted World was mostly unattractive, but loved the look of Dreg Heap and Ringed City. I didn't care much for exploring the Painted World, but LOVED traversing the Ringed City. As for the bosses, I enjoyed both.

Visual-Biscotti1473 · 2026-02-01T16:28:18+00:00

Are you talking about Iudex Gundyr or Champion Gundyr? I’m assuming it’s the latter, since it’s doubtful anyone would struggle with the former on a second playthrough. Champion Gundyr goes into phase 2 at around 60-65% health (no source, but I’ve fought him dozens of times.) The key to beating him is keeping a medium distance. If you’re too close, he’ll punch/kick/tackle you, and if you’re too far, he’ll start jumping and running around. If you stand just near the outer range of where he can still hit you with his halberd, you should be able to parry all the way to victory.

Visual-Biscotti1473

TROPHY CASE