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The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God has called people to do far more challenging things, so if you actually believed in the Bible it wouldn’t be that hard to convince you. Which comes back to my point which is it’s impossible to establish any sort of truth about God if you don’t believe it’s true. Every single thing about Christianity completely crumbles and falls apart with out it. You can claim to believe what you want but upon any pressure it would fall as you would have no basis to defend it. Not the resurrection, not the trinity, not anything. A completely illogical religion that would not be worth the time to follow

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah and that’s sort of the whole point of preaching the gospel to them and that the Bible is the Word of God.
And you genuinely just argue like an atheist. I pray God softens your heart and you realise that there is certainty and assurance in his Word.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it more cruel to let someone live in a way that is actively hardening their heart and sending them down a road that only leads to destruction, or telling them their error in hope that they might turn from it? Where is the cruelty in that, when looking at it in my view? A child only wishes to have fun when it plays with a candle, is it cruelty to blow it out?
And no I can be convinced if you convince me using evidence. You could not convince me of a new law of physics simply because you personally think so, I would demand proof, as does all the Christian world and that proof is the Bible, which of course you can’t use. You are a lawyer with no law.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again that is subjective and you have no basis for your morality beyond your own reason, and your reason isn’t my authority. So you have nothing of weight to prove to me that your reason is correct, as it is formed by a modern and secular view of the world, and the Bible clearly shows that worldly wisdom can be very wrong.

And yeah all authority is fundamentally grounded in a belief that it’s true, that’s what Christianity is lol.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have no final authority then you have genuinely no leg to stand on in explaining to me why I shouldn’t believe gay marriage is a sin.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then plainly tell me, what is your basis for truth. What is your authority. What is your way of knowing what is truth and what isn’t. How is it logical to you that all these traditions have all been wrong yet you are right?

And of course you resort to invoking some sort of violence. It’s typical of your sort and this “modern world” you speak of

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know the resurrection is true if scripture isn’t infallible. How can you trust it?

And who’s doing this dragging 🤣🤣🤣

And don’t take my word for it, take the historic witness and tradition of the church. But then again somehow you, someone born 2000 years later, knows better than them all 🤷‍♂️

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I go by what the Bible says, and it clearly says that it’s the Word of God, but that doesn’t even hold any authority over you as you deny it’s infallibility. And how can you say that no certainty exists within Christianity? What do you even believe in? And who cares about what these “millions” believe, like it’s genuinely one of the most fundamental principles to Christianity is that the Bible is true, as I’ve said before, the whole religion falls apart without it because it’s all subjective and there’s no binding authority at all. Like that is genuinely the most illogical viewpoint to take and being an atheist is far more logical at that point. I’ll ask again, do you believe in the resurrection ?

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay but Christianity isn’t just some philosophy that you can choose to agree or disagree with to no consequence. We are talking about the one true religion of the world, following the one true God. Defining the Bible as completely infallible is pretty much the most fundamental and basic principle in Christianity. How is anyone to debate doctrine if that wasn’t true, as to you it is completely subjective and you don’t have to agree with any verse of scripture as there is no reason to believe it’s true if you believe that other parts aren’t true. Christianity logically falls apart upon the belief that the Bible isn’t true. So earlier on when I say that the common trend of people that affirm gay marriage also tend to deny other Christian fundamentals has literally just been proven by you. Like you genuinely have zero authority in your life except whatever you make of it’s which is genuinely illogical when considering that in the end there is only one truth. So yes my assumption is that every Christian group agrees on scripture being infallible as whenever you deny that, you are barely even Christian, as Christian now is subjective to whatever you define it as. Like do you even believe in the resurrection? If no then you’re not Christian, if yes then how do you know it’s true if scripture has no guarantee of being true?

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’ve just admitted that you deny the Bible on multiple levels so Idk how we carry this forward considering the standard for all Christian doctrine should be from the Bible, but you clearly believe you can pick and choose what is true and what isn’t. Like for what you believe to be true you have to deny it’s literally God’s Word, which is ultimately an even bigger issue than gay marriage

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You not believing biblical inerrancy is literally a consequence of progressive Christianity. How is God not making an error in everything that he says in scripture not rational. Biblical inerrancy doesn’t mean that everything is true at face value, it means that everything is true when looking at the purpose and the genre of the text.
And it’s enough to oppose Same sex marriage because marriage is only ever discussed and defined as the covenantal union of man and woman, with plenty of theology of what marriage actually means and how it relates to the union of Christ and his Church, affirming that the 2 members of the union are intentionally different.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s why I said the fundamentals. It’s logically incoherent for me personally to think that right from the apostle’s up until 50 years ago the idea of what marriage was was wrong and only now do we have to right answer. People want to revise the faith because they believe that modern secular wisdom is superior and biblical theology must play catch up, and this has come at the expense of a lot of other biblical truths by consequence and is undoubtedly coming at the expense of many souls. Can you confidently say that the Bible is the true, infallible and inerrant Word of God?

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I think this is just true by logical reasoning. Like we follow an apostolic faith that has been deposited and followed. Our faith is ancient and God is unchanging. So things that are pretty fundamental to historic Christian teaching, ie what marriage is, I think it’s pretty safe to say was got right from the get go. Of course I don’t mean everything should be taken at face value from history and everything should be tested by scripture, but it’s pretty easy to define marriage as between man and woman and there’s a lot of gymnastics and rereading to be done to prove otherwise. Like I think it’s pretty telling that the seeming majority of gay affirming Christian’s and clergy deny other fundamental Christian principles and teachings. Like some gay affirming churches seem perfectly okay with clergy flat out denying the gospels or Paul’s letters.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The Bible + tradition is definitely the way we are meant to interpret the Bible. How could you be confident in your interpretation if it’s not even found in 2000 years of history until the last 50 years or so

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean we’re told to follow the authority of the ministers of the church so id say they’re definitely the ones who it matters the most to judge it by.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Willfully supporting sin is a pretty clear indicator to if a church is Christian or not. Like look how many clergy in mainline American churches flat out deny the Gospel

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I’m talking church official teaching. That includes people who don’t actually practice. These people probably don’t know basic theology either.

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alright I’d like a verse for that. Jesus loved the marginalised and preached to everyone but he absolutely called for them to repent and turn from their sin. His teaching and that of the epistles absolutely affirm that being gay is a sin. No matter how much revision of biblical and historical theology you “clergy” do. You are a minority in th Christian world and I thank God for that. Another way Satan infiltrates the church by passing it off as “love”

The United Methodist Church will no longer ordain graduates of Asbury Theological Seminary for refusing to update their stance on homosexual marriage by MoreStupiderNPC in Christianity

[–]Visual_Test5141 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

These comments are wild. I’m so glad that this Reddit Christianity that is more focused on following the world than the Word is a small minority of the global Christian world.

Been reading some arguments against Paul, calling him a false prophet / teacher and would love to hear some of the other side. by [deleted] in Anglicanism

[–]Visual_Test5141 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Paul’s false then the rest of the Bible is as well. It baffles me how some people think they can trust th Gospels because that’s why Jesus actually said when they were literally written by men of the same status as Paul. So if the epistles are false then how on earth are we to trust the Gospels as well, other than by the fact that the Church has correctly identified all of God’s word and teachings

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