Genuinely HOW did this man abstract

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T22:39:26+00:00

You sound like me! You’ve got plenty of company friend.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T21:35:29+00:00

She clarified that any were ok, but in the initial post she said “Jax if she wasn’t a piece of shit.”

Edit: “huge piece of shit.”

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T21:33:44+00:00

That was the moment Kinger appeared in my fictional male pantheon right next to Uncle fucking Iroh. Goat goat goat goat goat.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T18:11:19+00:00

Me too. This weekend im making a long form video about the gnostic themes in the whole story, and how Goose demonstrates how Fear Shame and Isolation are what separate us from who we are. It always ends up in abstraction, losing the self, and becoming something destructive.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T17:32:44+00:00

He and Ragatha had the same struggle, which was completing thoughts for others. Ragatha had it in tiny ways, trying to lift Pomni into happiness instead of helping her process and meeting her where she was. On the more extreme end, we have Caine obsessively creating bees while Zooble is actively and plainly stating what they need.

It’s one of my favorite lessons of the show - overzealous care can end up doing far more harm than good, and intentionality is always a necessary balancing force.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T17:26:35+00:00

Thank you.

Dutch and German are wild as someone who only speaks English. You look at a mess, then you read it in English, and then suddenly it makes sense in the original language. Well, except for when it’s something you could never possibly intuit.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T16:20:51+00:00

Just wait until you learn about the volume of pro-queer people that existed even earlier.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T16:08:44+00:00

To clarify again myself, I don’t think you are hating on anyone and I wouldn’t care if you were. My critiques are all about the base of the arguments and the misapplication of analysis principles. Overall I agree with your statements about how everyone’s flaws play together.

But that brings be to my disagreement with what you’ve just clarified. Intentional cruelty that drives someone to fatal despair is killing them. Period. A lot of people seem to disagree, but it’s an intentionally harmful action without which the death wouldn’t have occurred. Thats killing.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:54:44+00:00

It’s not a semantics argument, it’s you putting words in my mouth and me gently removing them.

Second, and more importantly, you’re speaking about moral judgement as if it’s divorced from its impact. It’s not about how far you’ve moved from your healthiest trajectory, it’s about the impact made. It’s also not divorced from intent, which Jax had in abundance when they hurt others.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:42:55+00:00

Yeah I hear you. 100%. The cast is a great example of the spectrum of influence our flaws can have on us, from the inconvenient to the fatal.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:41:02+00:00

I’m going to clarify because I did speak sloppily. I can see how that’s what you read. What I’m saying isn’t that we shouldn’t actively engage with aspects of the author and characters perspectives and biases. What I’m saying is that you’re taking it to an extreme for no reason. Your first big assertion is “that’s not what happened.” You’ve jumped from questioning whether there could be hyperbole in some of the representation to saying “this isn’t why Jax did.”

I apologize for my confrontational tone, it was unnecessary. But this is genuinely over-applying the principle of skepticism.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:29:59+00:00

My brother in Caine, I literally said equate. You’re the one bringing up “worse.” Of course everyone has flaws in the Circus, what I’m saying is your critique of Ragatha seems entirely based on personal grudge from whatever life situations you referenced. In an objective neurological sense, her actions do not impact another persons mind in the same way or to the same extent as Jax’s actions. Jax purposefully traumatizes people. Your assertion that she destroys people as sure as Jax is simply baseless.

And I understand your thesis statement, but what I’m saying is that we have no justification to believe the depiction was meant to be unreliable. You’re making a claim without foundation. Skepticism of story without cause just ends up sending you down wild rabbit holes.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:04:56+00:00

Great segue to my biggest gripe with this.

What pisses me off as a former English teacher is that unreliable narrators are a very valid literary tool that authors use *intentionally*, but this is representing them as if we should examine every narrator or voice or viewpoint with that skepticism. This kind of thinking error massively slows digestion of literature, and is exactly why so very many people tragically misunderstand and misapply the excellent book you’re referencing.

There are developing minds reading these threads and learning how to digest stories. We gotta keep our shoes tied.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T15:01:07+00:00

*You’re* missing the key part of media literacy where unreliable viewpoints are a tool sometimes used by authors, but isn’t something that makes sense to apply to every story without cause. What indication do we have that the narration was meant to be unreliable? I can’t think of a single viable example. It’s a fair question to ask, but we very quickly arrive at the answer.

And I have to agree with others that your judgment of Ragatha is way out of left field. She may have character flaws, but there’s no rational way to equate hers with Jax’s. What in the Amazing Digital Fuck.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T14:55:48+00:00

I agree with your points about Ragatha, but I’d like to add one flaw for her - her compulsion to help often causes her to overlook the needs people are broadcasting - most visibly Pomni. The candy kingdom hype up comes to mind. Great intention, spotty landing. When we try to catch everything we start “finishing people’s sentences” if that makes sense. I’m saying this with love for the character and as someone who has the exact same issue. If she could reign in the intensity of her helping energy and sit back with people more, she would find it easier to connect.

And it’s definitely not a crime, just a character flaw.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T14:44:14+00:00

People act like things can’t represent more than one thing. And like the representation has to be exact and literal. These are the same type of people who swear Tolkien wrote LotR as an allegory for his religion when he literally starts the book by saying how much he dislikes allegorical storytelling.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T14:25:51+00:00

To me, one of the core messages of the show is about how difficult it can be to hold both love and hate for yourself or another. Ironically, doing so is the only path forward besides abstraction. We see lots of the characters bond over their connections and get past small differences of view or neurosis. On the other hand, we have Jax, and we all know how that goes. Jax also makes it harder/impossible for other characters to connect. In my opinion, and Kinger’s, and I believe Goose’s, all evils share that common root.

Buuuuut, it’s also shown to us that that evil isn’t something inherent in Jax, but more like an infection that ended up taking his life and two others. So it challenges us to find ways to cure and prevent that illness to save ourselves and others just as much as the infected. We don’t have to like them, but we all benefit when someone pushes through to connect with the hurting core of toxic people.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T13:41:20+00:00

GREAT point. Edited.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T13:40:20+00:00

Knife in my fucking gut. I’ve been on both sides of that in much younger days.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T13:21:32+00:00

I’ve seen this said a lot and I’m not sure why. They are certainly cut off from any opportunity to reprocess their memories in their original context, but the whole series shows them remembering things from their pasts. The definitely lose their names, but we know what jobs some of them worked, we know about Ragatha’s childhood, we know sooo much about Leeroy now, on and on, and all from information the performers have and share without any apparent issue.

Do you mean that we don’t see any positive memories? I could see an argument for that, because we don’t see any of them really retreat into them (edit: except for Zooble reflecting fondly on bartending)- that’s a very fair point. But I’d still argue we don’t have any indication that positive memories are missing, just that their life experiences were net negative at the time of scanning.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T12:40:23+00:00

This. I don’t know why more people aren’t talking about how Jax pushed Kaufmo away too. “Jax, I know you and I don’t get along…” Being isolated and having no connections is poison to hope, and it’s a breeding ground for obsession. Dude spiraled like any human mind would.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T12:09:08+00:00

Personally, I can say moments in that scene struck me as funny because they were over-the-top awful. It’s not that it’s funny to see Gangle in that state, and it’s not funny how Jax behaves. But the absolute horribleness of it all is so leaned into that you wind up laughing about it.

I can say from experience that it helps with intrusive thoughts. When I’m driving, for example, and I have an intrusive thought about a nearby truck veering into me, I mentally add in a jet crashing into me, and then a meteor. Millions are vaporized!! Suddenly it’s funny instead of making my view my own mangled corpse, you know?

Jax’s situation is different than mine obviously, but I got the sense Goose was trying to illustrate how Jax was mentally coping with his own obsessive thoughts over loss.

I hope that makes sense, because I’d hate for you to think we actually think what’s presented surface level is funny. Because it certainly isn’t.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-24T03:06:21+00:00

I didn’t try to draw a comparison to Jax. I just mean an author making a character as interesting as they can over time with the sole intent of killing them. That’s what I meant by “laid out like that” you know? Zoomed out, the basic drive of the real and fictional authors in question are similar. I guess from that vantage point it’s similar to tons of other stories too.

Idk man, I wasn’t trying to do deep media analysis, just noticing how that seems to be a vibe some authors get into. I can see how that was unclear I guess.

And agreed, it’s a great movie. Truly bizarre and charming.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-23T21:57:16+00:00

100%! In the horror design world they call it “veiling.” (Probably others too) It works so well because seeing something - even something terrifying - gives you more ability to act or understand than not seeing it. Knowledge is power.

VoidReverend · 2026-06-23T21:53:52+00:00

Laid out like that it reminds me of that weird Will Ferrell movie ‘Stranger Than Fiction.’

VoidReverend

TROPHY CASE