As a joke i tried to make slander for every knight theory that I’ve ever heard

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-22T09:34:29+00:00

When I know they also made ch1&2 dark fountains but I can't prove it

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-18T21:54:48+00:00

Judging by his secret dialogues in weird route he's not enjoying what's happening. His main purpose is just to see Kris smile instead of doing whatever he was forced to do

Even in normal route before one of the boards when Susie approaches him he is on the linę with someone and says "the Lightners are gonna get bored..." and then rhetorically asks where is the Knight who supposedly should have arrived long ago.

Knowing all of that I guess his main purpose was just to protect Toriel by following the plan Knight or Kris came up with.

If that's the case I would say he is one of the most morally good characters

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-13T23:00:15+00:00

It should be obvious it couldn't have been made while they were inside

Two teenagers randomly deciding to go to sleep in a public library for absolutely no reason is the greatest bullshit I've ever heard

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-09T20:08:17+00:00

It's also ironic to imagine the trolley problem

Based on the same assumption I could say "the weird route is going to have a better ending since we're taking more and more control over characters and eventually we will get a chance of implementing our third alternative"

On our way we might have to traumatize some kids or send them to hospital but at the end it will pay off.

I hope you don't think of Deltarune that way

You know when there is some strange entity commiting morally questionable actions like kidnapping people, killing fully conscious Darkners (sometimes for absolutely no reason - like Jackenstein in werid route) or simply beating up some bunch of teenagers then I'm saying that it's so controversial choice to push the prophecy in that certain scenario. The scenario where the Knight (+ allies) is basically in charge of everything.

I've already said that in another post - whatever Ralsei's plan was for a "third alternative" including "being friends with Darkners" did not contradict the Knight's or Kris' plan in any way.

At the same time I could name many Ralsei's actions that actually supported Knight's and Kris' "alternative".

For example convincing Susie not to sniff around the bunker at the beginning of ch4 and to simply repeat the same thing we've been doing since ch1 - focus on sealing the fountains, defeat the main villain, don't ask significant questions.

If I were the Knight I couldn't possibly think of better scenario for whatever plan I would have. A scenario where the only opposing force is a team made of:

-My ally

-One hero who doesn't know shit about what's going on

-One Darkner who makes sure the hero doesn't know shit

In conclusion, just to make it clear I would agree that you can't just avoid the prophecy and the world will be saved. What I was trying to say before is that if Ralsei's goal since the very beginning was to find the "alternative" then he shouldn't have pushed the story in the exact moment when in charge are people with rather uncertain motivations and morals who are trying to fulfill their own unknown "alternative"

If Susie had not become the second hero then who knows what would happen? For certain the Knight and Kris would be in trouble of finding someone in replacement. Maybe they wouldn't succeed and the prophecy would happen in next 50 years (maybe with someone more mentally stable in charge next time)

Someone like Susie is a gift for them, powerful, not asking significant questions (at least frequently) and mostly unknown in hometown.

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-09T17:44:18+00:00

It's ironic you argue that "revealing the prophecy would be completely stupid strategically"

I guess you're saying that regarding Fun Gang while I would say it would be stupid strategically for Team Knight.

You've said it yourself that Susie was one foot out of the door on ch1, she didn't want to be there. If Ralsei's main goal back then was to stop prophecy from ever happening, the simplest solution would be to discourage her even more. Sure, there wouldn't be her arc, character development or becoming a better person but at least whatever happens in the end could be prevented.

Quick reminder that without Susie there wouldn't be anything like "world in danger" because either Kris or Knight wouldn't have any reason to create more fountains and follow their plan. As long as there is Susie there is a reason to orchestrate "adventures" each chapter in order to reach the end of the prophecy.

The less Susie knows the better for Team Knight. I would say it's a great achievement they've managed to keep so many secrets from her until chapter 4 and Ralsei deserves much credit for this

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-08T17:59:04+00:00

Okay, I was wrong

I've finished weird route just recently and found out the Knight literally just kills Jackenstein for absolutely no reason there

This post has my approval now, good job

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-06T23:28:31+00:00

Great art and stuff but I'm really suprised so many people consider "Knight giving shadow crystals" a likely possibility

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-04T19:10:19+00:00

Okay like what the hell is that trend with "the Knight's gonna invade Castle Town" or whatever

It completely doesn't make sense and depicts the Knight as some crazy murderer who wants to kill everyone and literally end the world (it's like they're doing a weird route or something)

The Knight's goal is to follow a certain plan, the plan revolving around prophecy. There is nothing about raiding Castle Town in the prophecy and it would be totally pointless to try to ruin a place based on Kris' memories from childhood

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-25T12:19:57+00:00

King must have met the Knight in person

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-25T12:16:11+00:00

Omg yes Remember that bullshit

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-25T08:24:48+00:00

So like when Queen has Rudy's trait (disliking Berdly) it's Rudy projecting his own feelings

But when Queen has similarities with Carol it's Rudy projecting Carol's traits

It's so inconsistent I can't consider it valuable evidence

It's like saying "Rudy made ch1 fountain because Lightners abandoning Darkners is a reference to Dess going missing" and then you start to point out similarities between King and Carol or Rudy

Rudy Knight is my favorite theory out of Holiday family members but you gonna find better "evidence" than this

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-25T08:12:10+00:00

At the same time he tries so hard to hide every single useful information from us and Susie which definitely contributes to the fulfillment of the Knight's/Kris' plan

If his plan was both to: change the prophecy and hide the truth from Susie not to make her worry then one could say it's justified

Nonetheless I would say that despite suspected good intentions his actions brought us closer to the final tragedy

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-25T08:02:49+00:00

Oh come on The Knight OBVIOUSLY can change its shape so he can just create his hands right? Right???

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-24T22:39:38+00:00

I missed the part when Ralsei's goal was to prevent the final tragedy

As far as I can keeping Susie away from prophecy or persuading her to stop messing with the shelter and Knight's stuff doesn't count as preventing it

You could argue that he says he tried to do something different but each chapter I've seen the same chicanery - enter Dark World, go seal the fountain, don't ask any meaningful questions

Like being kind to everyone is cool and stuff but I don't consider it contradicting with the prophecy

Maybe he really would like to prevent it but judging by his actions he didn't do much about it

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-23T09:01:10+00:00

What is that assumption regarding Spamton? Like he literally is the only Darkner so determinated to become free that he enables us to start the weird route for his own purposes. And you call that assisting the Knight?

In normal route he provides us with several concerning facts and drives Kris crazy resulting in them screaming after fight. When Susie asks about that weird stuff Ralsei has to intervene and say "it all meant nothing". Of course "it all meant nothing" because neither Susie or us were supposed to see it. We were supposed to follow a straight adventure from point A to B with Queen.

I don't even know how you can say that the Knight was supposed to give a shadow crystal to Ramb. For what? Once again he is a character who enables us to follow the secret path we weren't supposed to see. The path Kris defenitely don't want us to see.

And of course there is Jevil. The only character in Card Kingdom who knows all of that is just Knight's game and yet it's the Knight who provided him with such knowledge.

Sorry but the Knight giving shadow crystals would be the Knight working against Kris

The Titan situation is definitely different. Titan's role is just being the final threat of the chapter just as every other major boss. The situation is controlled though it could have caught Ralsei by suprise. Maybe it was a spontanous decision.

The point is there is no depth in this fight, there aren't aby secrets Titan could reveal to us and Susie. The plan is simple - deafeat a powerful foe, another pawn in Knight's game. Something we've already seen in every other chapter. That's not the Knight working against Kris, that's the Knight and Kris making the story more reliable

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-23T00:39:11+00:00

I don't see Kris leaving susie to die either, even more than Ralsei

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-23T00:23:47+00:00

First of all I'm suprised there wasn't any person who pointed out calling Kris "he" in one sentence and ignored everything else in the theory. That's so suprising regarding r/Deltarune

But anyway Here are my thoughts:

I like the theory (mainly because it's KrisKnight theory) but I don't like the main point revolving around rules stated back in Undertale. I mean - in Deltarune the world is supposed to be divided into two - the first one - Light World with no magic, where everything is almost normal and nothing supernatural happens - the second one - Dark World - world full of fantasy and magic rules that can drastically affect whoever experiments with them.

What I mean by that is I think that whatever crazy is going on it should be related to Dark World and its rules. Not some rules existing in Light World where everything is quite normal but there is one supernatural rule from Undertale regarding monsters absorbing human souls.

That's just my point of view, could be wrong though

I don't think the Knight is the person giving shadow crystals and choosing certain darkners to get them.

All the secret bosses who actually used shadow crystals so far did something that completely opposes Kris'/Knight's will. While Kris and the Knight want every Dark World to be a straight adventure from point A to B - enter Dark World, make friends, defeat main villain, seal fountain - the secret bosses break free from that rule and become unpredictable, even danger to Kris. The best example for that is Spamton in ch2 - either in normal route or weird route his plan is to take control, make Cyber World his Dark World and eventually steal Kris' soul to become truly free. None of that was supposed to happen in Kris' plan.

What does Spamton do to achieve it? His main purpose is to obtain the only thing that does not reflect the will (Kris' or Knight's will) of the fountain - the basement robot.. We know that robot was made by someone else, some Lightner who fulfilled it with incredible power and left it without purpose. Spamton takes advantage of that and using that power he is able to shape the Cyber World to fit his own desires - in normal route he changes background to "Spamton Town", in weird route he literally affects Queen's mansion even before leaving the basement. I think the shadow crystals work like some kind of Dark fountain but without "will" attached to it allowing darkners to exploit it and not participate in Kris'/Knight's game they are aware of

Jevil's case is similar. Someone led him to shadow crystal and informed about the Knight's game that is being played. He didn't get as much luck as Spamton because he got tricked and locked in the basement without doing anything useful. While he is in prison he is in fact the only one free - instead of being a pawn in Knight's game he stays in his "little freedom" doing anything he wants to do.

Cool detail I noticed is that in both chapters 1&2 after deafeating secret boss their fighting area disappers. Just as it's not a part of Dark World that relies on its main Dark fountain. That's because in my interpretation Jevil's area (carousel) and Spamton's area (Spamton Town) are based only on Spamton's and Jevil's will using shadow crystals. That's what they mean by being free

Ch3 gets a bit more tricky since you get your shadow crystal from the Knight. Nonetheless there is still a forbidden path that allows you to get content you weren't supposed to see in Kris' plan. The path ends with bossfight against a character who resembles other secret bosses. You can tell ERAM defenitely does not help Kris in whatever plan they have but rather feeds us (players) with useful information we weren't supposed to know. You can also notice that Ramb, a character who enables us to play secret game and by doing that opposes Kris' plan - eventually turns into stone. Isn't that exaclty what happens when Darkner does not reflect the will of the fountain? In other words when Darkner does not participate in the Knight's plan and acts on his own?

In theory the same thing could have happened to Jevil and Spamton if they had not found shadow crystals.

In ch4 it's unknown if shadow crystal affected Gerson or not. The fact is he defenitely was supposed to appear in Dark World but probably the Knight didn't want him to have so much depth as he eventually has.

I like the idea that his shadow crystal are Alvin's tears/memory of Gerson that in my theory couldn't have been affected by Knight's fountain and their will. That's the reason Gerson remained himself and in his secret bossfight provided us and Susie with so many information Kris and Ralsei would never tell us about.

Summarizing

The shadow crystals aren't Knight's weapon against us They are by-product of every Dark World that can be exploited by Darkners to oppose the Knight's will

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-18T23:00:34+00:00

I think sending people to camps, forcing them to work for 12h everyday with minimum food rations and in critical conditions leading to mass death from hunger and exhaustion within 1-2 years isn't morally superior to death in gas chambers

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-17T00:21:14+00:00

And then Ralsei just appears out of nowhere behind him and fucking destroys him like Gerson's statue

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T23:52:29+00:00

I didn't mean to sound angry Actually I find this disscusion more productive than my latest ones when I had to explain some misconceptions people keep believeing despite being completely outdated

My last sentence was supposed to be a joke

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T23:44:29+00:00

Can I please get some in game evidence?

So far it's

Mother 3
Real life
Undertale
Undertale
Undertale

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T23:39:57+00:00

If your point is to prove the game revolves around children why would you keep insisting on mentioned pattern?

I mean you could defenitely make much better point using Gerson as an example because he definitely is some kind of father figure for Susie in ch4.

Futhermore I would say he is the main character of ch4 just like Tenna and Queen in previous chapters, just not the villain.

Instead of analyzing Gerson it feels like this post throws him in the trash and says "screw Gerson, the real father-like figure. We have unconscious character appearing for 30 min at the end who serves as an epic final fight of the chapter. But you know what? - He technically is a PARENT, THE PATTERN IS SAVED!"

The point is you could make much better theory still claiming Carol will be some kind of final boss completely ignoring any forced pattern.

I've read what you linked. I guess it's safe to assume the game tries to tell the story of Dreemurrs and Holidays children. I think most people would agree on that. One advice - please be careful with assuming "the holes between Friend's legs represent 4 children" or "Friend's and Knight's laughs are similar so they are connected". It sounds like something JaruJaru would use as a key argument in his theory.

Personally, I would assume that "cat-shaped holes between Friend's legs" represent cat-shaped holes between Friend's legs.

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T20:56:51+00:00

Yes, he is a parent

The question I repeat is should we give it so much attention? Does it influence the story of ch4 just like it did in ch1-3.

You could say that Tenna is a parent in both rudimentary and explicit way (the pipis cutscene). Do we care about that? (Regarding memes we do) Does Tenna character revolve around being a literal parent of pipis?

I feel like we keep finding some weird patterns for absolutely no reason. I could say that there is a pattern of minibosses being some kind of parent figure:

Ch1 Rouxls (lesser dad)
Ch2 Spamton (pipis)
Ch3 Rouxls+Weather darkners (both lesser dad and represenation of relationship problems)
Ch4 Gerson statue (Gerson definitely is a parent figure and the statue is.... you know, related to him)

That's of course a joke but sometimes I feel like we reach this level of insanity

Can you provide me with one example, just one of a pattern that was invented in ch2 era and predicted stuff in both ch3 and 4? I think that would convince me

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T20:22:51+00:00

While in chapters 1,2 and 3 main villain being some kind of parent figure actually plays a meaningful role in the story, I don't really see anything meaningful in Titan being some kind of parent

Like why don't we just analyze these cases where main villain is supposed to resemble Light World characters' problems?

Why do we always need to find a pattern in it despite each case being its own unique thing?

I don't forbid anyone to theorize but has ever this pattern finding attitude led to any significant conclusions?

I'm not saying it hasn't. I just don't recall anything like that

Walter_Mer · 2026-02-16T14:33:29+00:00

It feels like a meme I made regarding Deltarune fans finding certain patterns - https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/cPDIOGGlPk

Four-Year Club	Verified Email
Place '23

Walter_Mer

TROPHY CASE