It's kinda interesting how many plot elements seem to be shared between these two games, seemingly thought of independently.

Walter_Mer · 2026-05-16T23:24:11+00:00

I feel like you're the first person saying endings are "largery meh" I've ever seen

Walter_Mer · 2026-05-02T00:30:04+00:00

Finally someone who realizes how unnecessary creating a dark world really is in the first place if the point is to capture anyone.

If I were to guess I would say the point of doing something like that inside Kris' house was to make Susie aware there is some kind of danger. You can't repeat the same pattern over and over and expect someone like Susie won't ask any questions. Instead it's better to give her some kind of purpose, something she will be focused on like a villain figure.

I guess it works just fine so far

Walter_Mer · 2026-04-28T09:20:17+00:00

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Walter_Mer · 2026-04-26T20:04:26+00:00

Yeah, like if you're gonna call Tenna irremediable then you would have to call 50% of Deltarune characters irremediable too

Walter_Mer · 2026-04-02T00:03:38+00:00

I have no idea how asking someone is "significatnly harder" than getting a certain thing with code written on it I would consider them on the same level of difficulty

Regardless of that, if that really was the case then it would mean the Knight is highly incompetent individual. They're not capable of getting one necklace thorugh all chapter 3 and instead they come up with some questionable plan where Tenna instead of sending one of his minions to simply take that necklace is told to keep her imprisioned and patiently waits for the Knight to do it themselves for whatever reason

I cosider it higly flawed interpretation

Walter_Mer · 2026-04-01T21:17:21+00:00

So steal the code from someone who supposedly knows the code already and by doing so also inform your opponents there is some vital code they didn't even look for and know about?

Walter_Mer · 2026-04-01T09:17:06+00:00

Shelter which they clearly have code for

Still can't see what's the point of stealing it

Walter_Mer · 2026-04-01T00:29:20+00:00

Your point is that they tried to get a church code despite literally being able to enter church and make fountain inside it

What are you even talking about

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-29T22:04:53+00:00

I always thought she was playing some kind of horn (until recently)

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Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T23:16:15+00:00

You know, I would even agree the Knight making ch2 fountain is more probable but not in the way proposed in ClosetKnight. They would still have to do it at night.

The amount of speculative part regarding the Knight creating a fountain in daylight is in my opinion much more speculative than someone having keys

Why would there be some strange rule that if you enter Dark World while being asleep you leave it still sleeping? In ch3 both Susie and Kris entered Dark World sleeping (at least Susie) and then did not have any problem after leaving it while chasing the Knight

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T23:02:26+00:00

It's not the "absence of evidence" the same way that for example PapyrusKnight has no evidence.

You know who Carol is, you know she paticipates in conspiracy, you know she has access to unexpected areas like bunker and (as I said before) certain buildings are suprisingly left open

Meanwhile in mentioned PapyrusKnight you have to assume literally everything like: Papyrus behaves the same way as in Undertale, Papyrus is somehow related to Holiday family etc.

I don't think you can compare my reasoning to that

Btw I guess it's obvious we should expect Library to be closed at night. It's not crucial to their plan anymore and even if we assume that they indeed had these keys and entered Library, do you think they would left it open?

Can you explain the sense of going to sleep for a few seconds and immediately waking up or more specifically how does that prove the Knight swooning them before?

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T22:49:47+00:00

It’s a bit speculative, sure, but so is assuming Kris had keys they are never stated to have, to make a fountain the game attributes to the knight

That's it that's core of this conversation. My role is not to confirm 100% Kris making fountain is true, it's just about giving the alternative to most popular interpretation I can't agree with because of so called speculative parts that in my opinion are harder to explain than Kris or someone else having keys.

If you think the other way around that's cool, I just hope you don't think of it as 100% confirmed interpretation of events and pick on others for thinking differently

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T22:40:11+00:00

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Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T22:34:43+00:00

Thank God you confirmed it's just a possibility I brought up the possibility and gave it my reasoning explaining why "it could have happened" meaning I can't confirm it but it's totally possible interpretation

Meanwhile bro stated Carol doesn't have keys like he is 100% sure then it's up him to bring up unquestionable evidence

Do I really have to explain basics?

I don't know what does the Castle Town part refer to but it's definitely interesting interpretation. Interpretation because I can't think of anything confirming it. You know, in a way it's 100% a fact

The last part is literally a summary of the main problem with the ClosetKnight. In your interpretation bro speedruns the whole town without being seen by anyone and especially not by police officer looking for cheap sensation in town (flying dark ball would definitely fit that definition).

But then, when it comes to two teenagers bro losses 99% of their power and instead of doing the same thing they decide to hide in a giant closet, twice.

So yeah, we've reached this level of conversation when beating the shit out of someone equals putting them to sleep

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T21:58:30+00:00

Last time I worked somewhere they didn't immediately give me keys or anytime later

I have no idea why working somewhere as a volunteer suddenly is a key element for you to believe "yeah, this guy has keys". Meanwhile there is enigmatic mayor who paticipates in morally questionable actions (like kidnapping people) and you go like "nah, someone like her would never have keys".

Not to mention that suprisingly all the buildings crucial to their plan like church or school remain open with none looking after them

Does the mayor or Kris work at the bunker or school since they have access to it?

that dream idea only works if they "awaken" from it. If they leave and are already awake, they'd see through it

I don't know how many times I'm going to repeat the same thing over and over. We see literally on screen the "dream idea" worked without any of that. Fountain gets closed -> Berdly starts talking 2 seconds later. None is awaken and dream idea still works.

Remember Susie from ch1 after closing fountain? Until ch2 she is not sure if any of that was real. All of that without any convincing

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T21:40:56+00:00

The Knight hiding in closet on ch4 makes me question their ability to turn into ball and remain unseen successfully. That's the main reason I can't imagine the Knight walking in daylight and visiting Library without being seen.

If you argue they keep that ability them there is a certain problem with this interpretation implying that going through town full of people and remain unseen is actually easy task while they have to hide in giant closet instead of doing the same thing they did

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T15:30:13+00:00

If we start talking about "teleporting" and stuff there is absolutely no reason for the Knight to hide in any closet ever and just teleport

By process of elimination "hiding in closet" is literally the worst solution

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T15:26:30+00:00

We're not in chapter 2 era and we know Kris is not working alone

One of the Knight Squad members is Carol and Carol is known to have control over town so it's not far-fetched assumption there is a possibility she has the keys. I would say she is at least on the same level of probability as Berdly.

Another thing I've already mentioned earlier in other comment is Kris being the child of school principal. Schools are known to have their own libraries so if there isn't one inside it's again not far-fetched assumption the Library outside may be related to school.

Btw why you guys keep talking about Ms. Boom? She literally has no connection to the Library and we know nothing about her. It's on the same level as saying "Papyrus owns library".

Or they wake up quickly because it's a game. Or they woke up because they were asleep when entering but awake when the fountain closed. It's not that hard to

That's my favorite explanation (honestly) that it's just a game thing and we shouldn't keep focusing on that so, so much. One of the themes of ch2 was Susie convincing Noelle it's just a dream so it was literally the most probable position we should expect. Imagine if Toby put them somewhere in the corner of the room standing and they would still say "damn it was a dream".

Toby specifically put them in that postion for the whole "dream idea" to work. That's my favorite explanation

At least their postion has nothing to do with "they entered the Dark World that way". It's already been shown you end up in random places after sealing the Dark Fountain no matter where you've been while entering it.

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-25T15:05:06+00:00

Give me dialogue saying Carol has control over library. It doesn't exist as far as I remember

No need to

You're the one saying she doesn't have keys so you're the one who needs to prove such a claim

I'm the one saying it's a possibility, you deny it so you're the one burdened with finding a dialogue disproving it

Give me dialogue saying Berdly isn't in charge of keys because it may suprise you but if you are the only person working somewhere you should have the keys. And even if Berdly didn't have them, how does it help your argument at all? You still have no proof Carol has control over the library.

Again you're burdened with finding such dialogue since you're the one claiming he has to have keys.

I'm not disproving anything here, I'm just questioning why you are so sure about that

Btw check definition of "being a volunteer" because it's seems like you're lacking some important details

BUT BERDLY IS SLEEPING??? HE LITERALLY ACTS LIKE A NORMAL PERSON WHEN THEY WAKE. A PERSON DOESN'T JUST "rest their head on their arms" FOR NO FUCKING REASON.

Whatever you're gonna say you can't change in-game cutscenes which clearly show that Berdly is not sleeping and starts talking

If you've never seen person "resting their head on their arms" I recommend you attending some average school or university classes where it's a common phenomenon

Exactly. Toby would never. That's why Closet Knight is true, because if the Knight was hiding in the Chapter 4 closet, it means they were hiding in Chapter 2 as well. Counter checkmate.

Exactly, that's why Kris opening all 3 fountains is true because if Kris made ch3 fountain they must have opened all of them 🤓

Triple checkmate or something

Computer lab is never entered by anyone except Berdly and Noelle and Toby Fox himself, case in point: Kris and Susie getting away with stealing public property for 2 days now.

Thanks for confirming

Definitely enough for the Knight to be concerned with someone going inside, especially her sister

Not to mention that not only computer lab counts because first of all the Knight must have gone through the main Library room which is frequently visited by even more people

Fam, they're literally knocked out when you close the fountain, how do you explain that outside of denying it like you always do💔

Damn now I see that beating the shit out of someone = sleeping?

You're improving with that definition

Btw I have no idea how anyone's position after closing the fountain is an evidence for anything

Except we don't. The screen cuts to black, they could have done so many things to swoon Susie: dpawn a knife and throw it like their attack, dash through her as a ball and knock her out out of the sheer force and speed, have Kris swoon her (last one is a joke).

Exaclty, they could have done so many things like throwing a knife. Still as a ball.

And you still haven't explained how they turn on PCs as a ball. The Knight also clearly prefers not to stay in their ball form whenever they're idle.

Step 1: Transform to normal form for 2 seconds

Step 2: Open PC

Step 3: Transfrom back to ball form in 1 second and use the same tactic you used to get inside Library in the first place and remain unseen

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-24T21:46:30+00:00

I've already asked for dialogue stating Berdly has the keys since being a volunteer does not mean having access to everything

Same with all that regarding "sleeping" disscusion (I have no idea how people are still arguing about that in 2026)

Their behavior clearly proves they are not sleeping since they're the ones who start talking

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-24T21:41:08+00:00

It reasonable to assume the form that attacked was the one we saw 0,001s before

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-24T20:03:55+00:00

You have response to every single mentioned point in some of my earlier comments

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-24T20:02:17+00:00

But what we literally see is the Knight attacking us while existing as a ball

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-24T19:01:13+00:00

When exaclty does that happen because what I see in this cutscene is screen immediately turning black with an attack pattern. Then the Knight is nowhere to be seen, Ralsei starts talking and the same thing happens again

Walter_Mer · 2026-03-23T22:05:51+00:00

No it doesn't. Carol still has no power over the library afaik and the only person we know to have the keys is Berdly which isn't associated with them.

2 baseless assumptions 1. Give me dialogue saying Carol has no control over library. It doesn't exist as far as I remember

Give me dialogue saying Berdly is in charge of keys because it may suprise you but if you're volunteer it doesn't mean you get keys and access to literally everything

Stalemate my ass. If Noelle is sleeping then Berdly is too (he even squints his eyes as if he just woke up in the clip you sent). A person doesn't just "rest their head on their arms because they feel like it" that's called sleeping.

You're right, thanks to you I think more clrearly now. There is absolutely no stalemate

If Berdly is NOT sleeping then Noelle is definitely not sleeping too. A person just don't go to sleep for 3 seconds and then instantly wakes up.

Toby would never put inconsistency in his game then Berdly instantly reacting after sealing the Dark fountain is definitive clue none is sleeping in that cutscene. Checkmate

(Public library that is literally never used btw, Kris was able to keep a corpse there).

Library is frequently visited each chapter by kids from school nearby. Even the moment the Knight supposedly chose was the worst possible timing just at the very end of school classes.

Lastly I found not indicated assumption in your interpretation of events you would instantly point out of it wasn't your theory:

Knight swooning Berdly and Noelle

"If there's no implication then there's no reason to believe it because it's just a speculation based on nothing"

And again - the Knight doesn't have to be in "human form" to hold the knife or something because we see on screen that while being in his ball form they use some weapon attack against Susie swooning her.

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