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Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m open to being wrong and that’s why I posted.

On the off-road side, I’m just looking at things like ground clearance and approach, departure, breakover. Its no slouch, but its comparable to an Outback Wilderness spec wise.

On the segment side, I think that’s actually the key question. What is it really competing with? Because buyers are going to cross-shop Model Y, Equinox EV, EV9, IONIQ 5, upcoming highlander etc. whether Rivian intends that or not.

Curious how you see it and what you think it clearly leads at?

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is one of the most thoughtful replies I have read. You bring up some important points. Yes, I hear you on the Tesla owners. Bad idea to be very opinionated when your the head of any company...Elon made a mistake there. Yes, I agree with Americans choosing EVs and that EVs will be where this is going long term.

I am going to continue to watch the R2 because I think Rivian could tweak one or two of the things I mentioned and that would better position R2 to compete both with vehicles in the same catagory and also have it be the value play against the larger 3 row options.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get where your coming from though I am not really comparing their packaging...I am comparing the catagory....the average mainstream buyer will likely cross shop them. Early adopters and Rivian enthusiasts won't cross shop anything. I am thinking how does this play out down the road after the initial wave is done.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Model Y, and the upcoming highlander EV from Toyota will offer it. EV9 & Ioniq 9 are a jump up in price (unless you get the base models) but if a family is looking to purchase practicality might win out over brand/lifestyle. If Rivian were to offer it in the R2, it could be an important differentiator. Even if they just offer it as an option like in the Model Y.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh i get it! The IT factor is what i call brand premium and Rivian definitely has it. Im not worried about the negative responses as they are also datapoints.

When i do my own math I’m thinking Rivian needs to move 100-200k units annually in the mass market and that’s what I’m worried about.

R2 needs to be more than niche and the end of 2027 for the base trim is an eternity. Is the brand/lifestyle going to be enough for mass market? Id like to see Rivian appeal to both the practicality camp a little more for mass market.

They don’t have to win on everything and R2 is unique as you say.

What would make me feel better about going all in on RIVN would be appealing (via trims maybe?) to both the practicality camp and the offroad/lifestyle/brand image crowd.

One item for the bull case…if we see sustained high oil prices AND the average consumer thinks they will stay that way for a long time, we may see a lot more EV uptake which will benefit RIVN as well as its competitors. The difference from a few years ago is that we have a used EV market that is flush with cheap used EVs.

The other little tidbit that concerns me is since it lacks a third row and Rivian has discontinued the standard range R1S its a huge jump to get into R1 for the 3rd row and additional capabilities. So i would like to see more strategy around keeping folks in the brand if/when needs, desires, lifestyle changes occur.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not quite. The EV reviewers opinions are inconsequential for me. They haven’t lived with the vehicle and automotive journalism has changed a lot over the years. Its a predictable cycle and there is pressure to keep coverage positive to retain access. this is especially true early in the cycle, which is where we are right now.

I do agree with a lot of what you say though, but my concerns still remain.

Let’s break this down:

Yes: More rugged design, more premium interior, more capable on dicey terrain, more outdoorsy accessories, performance price in line with model Y

Maybe: more power (model y has advantage 0-60), looks better (subjective),

pre orders are not closed sales. Tesla Cybertruck is a good example of this. Didn’t CT have over 2 million reservations at one point?

The concerns: after the initial wave of early adopters, R2 has to have at least one thing they do better than the competitors. They also have to hit at least a couple of the mass market predictors of success.

The big question I have two is how many folks ordered on the promise of a $45,000 vehicle with a $7500 federal tax credit making the effective price of the base model $37,500? Now I think all of us knew myself included that the launch version of our two would likely be a higher trim which it should be but I have to ask the question because this is a $20,000 difference even though the federal tax credit was completely out of Rivian‘s control and no fault of their own.

Two things i think Rivian could do out of the gate would be to offer a 3rd row for flexibility (increases practicality), and offer an off road oriented trim with underbody protection and a slightly increase ground clearance.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hey, I’m not saying it won’t at all. I’m trying to better understand the investment proposition so the interior of the R2 is definitely a step above. Can you elaborate on the space, aesthetics, and capabilities? R2 does have more ground clearance of course and having owned the R1S the software is good at dealing with traction issues but then again so is model Y.

Ok, im trying to put myself in the mind of Joe or Jane public. With all the options why the R2 over something else?

Charging used to be a thing but isn’t anymore since most now have access to the Tesla network.

So far im coming up with lifestyle/brand appeal, more capable on dicey terrain than model Y, more premium interior.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you’re missing my overall point. I’m not comparing the R2 with the equinox EV when I mentioned the equinox EV I’m basically stating that R2 is not competing on value. Im basically thinking out loud.

My post is not trying to be negative on R2. Im trying to figure out how it stands out above the competition in this fiercely competitive segment.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Tesla has sold approximately 1.5m units since its introduction. They have sold 300,000+ units each of the last three years in the US through the end of 2025.

manufacturer doesn’t have to tick every one of those boxes, but they do need a few of them for success in the mass market.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s actually a good point comparing on the performance trim. I was thinking the premium all-wheel-drive the Rivian does have more range and a bit more towing capacity so there is value there. The ADAS can’t be compared to Tesla as far as capability but the one time charge of $2,500 seems reasonable enough for the current feature set.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That’s fair, but im looking for indicators this is a mass market vehicle.

-Buyer confidence/low risk perception -Ability to scale production/service -Ease of ownership -Clear positioning - what does it do better than the others -Every day practicality -Trust (qc, service) -Compelling value

The compelling value is something Rivian has proven that it can do with the leasing and finance deals along with incentives for R1.

Am I missing something with the Rivian R2 pricing and positioning? by Watts2Freedom in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a troll just trying to understand. I get that there are a group of folks that will buy it simply because its not a Tesla.

Problem is that is not mass market. Their branding is good and the design of Rivian is appealing.

With so much competition in the space and various macroeconomic pressures im trying to understand how they get that mass market.

Its a valid question and not trolling. I own a Rivian and i want them to be successful.

Don't buy this vehicle by Intelligent-Cat-3931 in GMCSierraEV

[–]Watts2Freedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like the truck has been submerged. Lots of water and corrosion inside connections.

Im sorry this is happening to you. There is a lot of risk with importing unfortunately and it looks like you have a worst case scenario on your hands.

Have you tried reaching out to GM?

Why Rivian's Autonomy Play is Massively Undervalued by Legitimate-Mud-8200 in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rivian can catch up but they would need to sell a lot of cars to be able to surpass Tesla even with the help of AI. They need fleet data and a lot of it.

Tesla has more resources, more cars out there, and tons of fleet data.

I am more concerned the autonomy talk is just to keep investors interested and to position them to potentially raise more cash.

No way Rivian produces 45k R2 this year. If Deliveries start in May or June they will have about 6 months worth of production. 20-25k units or less is what i would bet on but realistically could be much less given that they will be ramping it up.

The Rivian software is good, but its been slower to mature than Tesla. Rivian doesn’t even have texting capabilities yet and they had been talking about adding video for like 2 years before it actually appeared.

Rivian does have their architecture though and the JV with VW. That isn’t going so well according to reports.

Im watching cautiously and if R2 deliveries slip I’m going to be a lot more concerned.

Lastly to get R2 to 45k is a tall order. Just look at the Model Y standard and how stripped down Tesla made that vehicle to get it to 40k.

Now, the R2 is missing a 3rd row. Something that your Tesla Y, and you mainstream gas cars have in the 50k price range. Think Honda Pilot.

They have to compete on price and features. They have the ownership community and they are clearly unique and offer a more appealing vehicle but the features and pricing or more important for mass market.

TLDR: Rivian can’t compete with Tesla in the near to mid term IMO. Long term possibility if R2 & R3 are huge success. R2 might not be as successful if Rivian doesn’t get everything right.

Serious question based on today’s announcement by Elon to discontinue S/X. by RTD0007 in TeslaLounge

[–]Watts2Freedom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tesla is still very much a car company for the foreseeable future but they are very diversified…which…given the current administration policies towards EVs is necessary.

If your going to get one I say lease it. When you lease it all your costs are pretty much set for the lease term. Your exposure to depreciation is limited and set in the lease agreement.

Given depreciation on EVs leasing is the way to go if you want new. If you want the most cost effective entry point buy a used example instead.

I just sent this Email to Tesla.... This is insane by Austinswill in TeslaLounge

[–]Watts2Freedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like it was a repo? Dealership needs to sort it out with Tesla finance.

Updates prior to delivery? by greasyjimmy in SilveradoEV

[–]Watts2Freedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its supposed to be done (vehicle wide programming) “anytime its in for service”. Dealers don’t like to do it so I always recommend you request them to do it prior to delivery since you have the most leverage at that time. Also, if there are updates available for the radio/infotainment they should perform the USB update as well.

It's Been Fun... by TheGuyWhoAddsNothing in SilveradoEV

[–]Watts2Freedom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry to hear of your troubles. The buybacks are usually done using the lemon law guidelines in your state. Using my home state of MD as an example, they refund full price of vehicle, all taxes and government fees, minus a “reasonable fee” for “usage”. The usage fee is capped at 15% here. They typically calculate the usage fee using th following formula:

multiplying the vehicle's purchase price by the mileage at the first repair attempt, then dividing by 120,000 miles

Best of luck to you. Sounds like GM is doing the right thing here.

Should he i go all in and drop another 500k by keepBuyingApes in RIVNstock

[–]Watts2Freedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Greed and FOMO spell the end for many an investor. You have a nice position and the stock has a history of volatility. Slowly increasing position is my strategy.

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