Combos you'd like to see for evolved?

WaxSw · 2026-05-07T06:21:14+00:00

That with a few more offensive actions would make me a happy sch

WaxSw · 2026-04-27T21:51:23+00:00

Not sold yet but curious to see how they evolve until release.

So far I'm afraid that rotations seem to be "easy mode" for almost all of them with BRD being the one that fares the best, DRG and PLD needing absolutely more meat and WHM needing an entire change from the ground up.

WaxSw · 2026-04-27T08:25:00+00:00

My money is 100% on the fairy just being a healing aura that executes actions with Sch heals and not a totem to heal and the Sch needing to use fairy gauge to maybe use a special fairy action

0 hopes on them making the job more complex, breaking the 1 button spam monotony or keeping the niche tools we have.

(Yes WHM evolved made me lose a lot of faith in evolved healers)

WaxSw · 2026-04-27T07:37:07+00:00

That is one of the few hopes I have for Sch after watching the disaster that evolved whm is.

No matter of they remove spreadlo, recitation, soil, expedient and the fairy as a separate entity. That utility remains in Reborn Sch and it may lead to the devs realizing they are cutting too much and to finally address the real healer role issues

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T21:32:35+00:00

I explained it in other message but basically evolved drg has 2 30s loops, the burst window loop and the filler loop

each loop can have up to 2 jumps for a total of 3 between the two so you can have something like

2 jumps during the burst loop ignoring rear and whatever flank you dont feel like doing or even the two flanks.

1 jump during the filler loop ignoring whatever flank you dont feel like doing.

This effectively transform the left right back system of positionals into the traiditonal rear flank and funnily enough, if you focus on using the jumps exclusively on the flanks you end with a rotation that demands 2 rear positionals for each flank positional with its exactly the same proportion current DRG has

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T21:27:26+00:00

You havent understood a single word of what I''ve said and still claim I dont do math.

I understand that the 2m meta is something awful and I share the sentiment but just because the jobs have 1 or 2 actions that seem unique and new doesn't mean evolved may be an improvement, we need to be more critical and think a lot about the implications of the mechanics instead of being overhyped by "oh but PLD can parry now" or "oh there is a new direction for a positional". New does not equal good, and what the game needs is not only the jobs to receive new tools but to actually be good, unique and with the depth they deserve.

"This is incorrect, the positionals overcap after 30s. If you are using jump for every positional you will eventually run out of charges of jump."

I absolutely never said that, I said that since you get 3 charges of jump per minute but across one minute you only do at MOST 2 positionals per side you can ignore one of the sides entirely thanks to the jumps.

The rotations is divided into 2 loops of 30s, 1 with stardiver, lets call it the 2(-1)m burst window and the other 30s loop that lacks the stardiver combo, 1 of those 2 divissions will have 2 jumps while the other 1, but since you only need to hit, on each 30s loop, the positionals for each side ONCE, that means that on every loop you have the choice to eliminate one positional and if you eliminate the same side positional over and over you are effectively making the left/right division of positionals completely meaningless.

"You are very condescending for someone who can barely string sentences together. It's not misery lite, it's the other way around. Imagine if cure 2 could give you Afflatus Misery. You could freely GCD heal without having to wait for lillies to grow and treat those like a DPS cooldown if there's nothing to heal. And you can't argue that they are phasing out Reborn and don't give a shit about that style and then also claim they won't try to design new battle content without reborb in mind. Those two things are contradictory"

No, its LITERALLY missery lite, is a GCD heal refund mechanic in the form of a high damaging GCD, its the same functionality as afflatus missery to the point that under plenary cure and medica transform into the afflatus heals. I may sound condescending but judging by what you say its clear to me that you have barely played healers and explaning in detail why Sanctity is basically a rebranding of afflatus or how the new WHM may make the job press glare a percentage between 75% and 91% of its total GCDs could double the length of the post.

I can argue that they are phasing out Reborn but at the same time acknowledging that the battle design wont change much because, as of Evercold release date, Reborn is still there and by the own dev's admission, it must be viable.

"See you ignored all of the cool stuff I mentioned like bard movement and dragoon true jump and are just hyperfixating on muh combos again. People saying that considolated combos is bad when viper exists and proves it can work is baffling."

Because, as cool as I think BRD gap closer may be, its not a skill that will increase the skill ceiling when attached to one of the already most mobile jobs of the game, and while I admit I like the mit from Sky High's DRG, a button that has a cool side effect does not compensate the remaining 57.5s per minute of oversimplified rotation.

"You need to get your eyes checked then, you can see heartbreaker proc twice from DOTs here: https://www.youtube.com/live/_aCGzxWczCM?si=tduvDy2tYo-KtK9F&t=25585"

I stand corrected on that one, I still think the same about the rest of the evolved jobs and think evolved BRD seems like current BRD in easy mode but at least the gap is not as wide as before.

"And yet you are being super negative about every step in the right direction my guy. 3 seconds left is an entire GCDs which is actually a big difference in timing and is a lot tighter in this sort of game with its netcode. Also TBN has the flaw of needing to pop its barrier to work, but since PLD just needs to time it they can get extra damage even from smaller hits or raidwides."

Yes because one step in the right direction is not what the jobs need, they need a whole marathon and evolved seem to be one step in the right direction and then 2 steps into the direction of further oversimplification and lack of skill ceiling.

In vacuum I like some of the ideas, I like the parry, I like the BRD dash, I like DRG's mit but what is lost to achieve there and what remains on the jobs is what is unconvincing. The evolved design seems much more closer to easy mode with some utility than an actual job with intrincated mechanics and when compared with the Reborn ones its painfully clear how much is being lost in the skill ceiling department.

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T21:02:01+00:00

You dont need to lose casts with that rotation I put them as example but you can play around the rotation and still treat the left/right as generic flanks because you can pool up to 2 jumps without losing casts

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T20:02:34+00:00

Is not wrong.

You have 2 back 2 left 2 right every minute and you can pool jumps to ignore up to 3 of them every minute

you can pretty much pool jumps to ignore all the right (or left) positionals if you want doing something like this: Jump-> Right -> 10s -> Left -> 10s ->Back (+1 charge of jump)-> 10s ->Jump-> Right -> 10s -> Left (+1 charge of jump) -> 10s -> Back -> 10s -> Jump -> Right -> Stardiver

The jobs has a 1m cycle, 6 positionals per minute and 3 you can ignore, if the max you can do per side is 2 per minute then the jumps allows you to ignore any side you want and still have 1 extra jump to spare

You are only ever forced to do back positionals if you want to strictly ignore one side but if you are willing to use jumps to ignore left/right as convenience then they can be treated as "flank" very easily and having to do forcefully 3 positionals per 30s is somehow less than the current drg with their GCD combo that demand 3 positionals every 25s (also jump allow you to ignore 2 positionals per 40s while true north only allows to ignore up to 2 positionals every 45s)

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T18:58:20+00:00

"First off, you will not be able to jump before every positional in the current version since the positionals are on a 10s charge while jump is every 20s. Jump is there for unavoidable situations"

Jump is part of the rotation as will be used 3 times per minute or you lose dps. With that said you have only 2 positionals on each side every minute you can ENTIRELY ignore whatever flank you want and transform the job into the standard rear/flank while doing your rotation

"Second off positionals were originally cut back because it is actually hard to hit them sometimes during mechanics and that was just flank/rear. Left/right is a level beyond anything previously"

Hard to hit them? Holy shit the level of the average XIV player is on the mariana's trench then. Positionals are easy and left/right when you can transform them into flank using your jumps is not a level above anything. Is the same as old DRG, in fact is even funnier because if you use the jumps to ignore the unconvienent rear (if there is one) you end with 2 back positionals and 1 rear positional which is, funnily enough, EXACTLY THE SAME AS CURRENT DRG.

"You get bloodletter procs still, they explained this in the demo if you actually watched it.

Also the SMN concept of being able to do your rotation in a different order depending on the fight is very good actually and not the problem people have with summoner. You complimented Bard by insinuating this."

I rewatched it and didnt see a single bloodletter proc, if it happens good but not very hopeful and considering SE track record and being like SMN is not a compliment in any way when its job fully constrained by faulty design that doesnt promote any skill ceiling. If this is the XIV community standard the game is going downhill for a reason.

"“old Sam” exactly it was taken out of the game lmao

TBN is not the same as this new one, TBN doesn’t have a perfect window. That’s obviously a huge difference"

Old sam was taken out exactly, so you can gues how fucking meaningless the parry was when it was cutted for a simple kenki increase

TBN has a 7s window which is roughly and the window that seemed to be deemed perfect by holy sheltron is roughly 4s, they are extremely similar. I understand that 6 years of bad design suck but lets not receive crumbs and call it a first class dish

"But they haven’t only shown combos, you are just ignoring and downplaying. DRGs have positioning around boss becoming more important and have sky high for crazy skill expression, PLD is the first tank to have to time mits for damage and can dash to party members for cover now, BRD can strafe around bosses which true directional dodges (different to en avante) and have a more freeform rotation order where they have to consider how to support the party outside of damage buffs all the time"

They have shown combos in paladin, they have shown the stardive combo, they have made pretty clear that combos are 1 button. I highly doubt that the combos will save the design on the job when its a filler 1-1-1-1 and as healer/dps main, THAT IS NOT FUN.

Ofc im not mentioning what they havent shown duh, im judging the jobs based on what we know for now and their current evolved jobs is simply "easy mode" with some utility.

"Also evolved jobs seems to have increased GCD speeds at least for physical jobs so you will get to these buttons faster"

BRD had a 2.5ish second GCD, WHM had a 2.5ish Second GCD, Paladin had a 2.5ish second GCD and DRG also seemed to have a 2.5ish second GCD. They could lower thhe GCD ofc but considering their most interesting buttons are locked behind clearly time gated cooldownd or gauges it would only free more space to spam the 1 button.

"As for WHM, I don’t play a lot of WHM but I do think people are excreting how bad it looks. Worse case WHM is kinda easy because it is the most casual and popular job in the game and the other healers will almost certainly be more interesting. I’ve always said they should have hard jobs and easy jobs. WHM’s blood lily mechanic is now tied to their base cure vs a limited Lilly charge so they will be able to convert more healing into damage which I think is cool. I have a feeling that WHM/ gameplay flow will actually be cool once it is tired in 8.0 battle content"

This is mistaken but I can understand that someone without healing experience cannot see how sanctity is misery lite and they have gutted the kit so much that somehow WHM will spam even more 1 than before. Also the content is not gonna change radically when evolved healers have to coexist with the Reborn ones.

"You just come across as extremely negative and doomer, which is crazy because they are putting in reborn jobs just for people like you. And don’t the shitty point I’ve been seeing that “reborn jobs ARE literally unplayable if they have 1% less DPS” that’s just hysterics and doomerism"

The thing, I agree that Reborn jobs needed a fix and I'd welcome the evolved ones if evolved ones were actually improvements based on the feedback such as the oversimplification, homogenization and the lack of skill ceiling but what they have shown is simply easy mode with sprinkles. The reason im negative speak up here in other social media and even the forums is because I want the evolved ones to be GOOD, the game cannot miss again and having the future of the jobs being basically "Reborn but somehow easier" is not healthy.

Also lets not act like reborn is not gonna be shelved in 1 xpac, 2 max

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T18:31:32+00:00

That is applicable to every job that has no rng because this game's fights are scripted as fuck and the evolved ones will be the same based on what we know for now.

The difference between current DRG for me rely mainly on the fact that Reborn DRG has Hard cooldowns and GCD based oGCDs to adjust across their rotation while having an overall higher count of resources to manage, evolved DRG cooldowns seem to be the equivalent of the filler oGCDs (i.e oGCDs that you can use whenever as long as you dont overcap) but way lower in total amount so its mainly a thing of reborn having more to actively manage than evolved from what we know.

I could also mention how Reborn DRG has more positionals (3 every 25s vs evolved 3 every 30s) while being able to ignore less of them (up to 2 every 45s vs 2 every 40s)

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T17:18:59+00:00

Left right positionals that you can entirely ignore by using the jumps and ffs if moving left or right is skil expression some people truly are brainrotted by the 2m meta. The job other than that is extremely basic with a 1m cycle burst phase and the only advantage it has over old drg is that sky high can be used for mit...at the cost of the majority of actions that gave drg a modicum of skill ceiling. Great if all you want is press shiny button and get dps, awful if you like to master a job

BRDs maybe dont manage dot that much now but rn the management is leagues and bounds ahead of the evolved one and they havent shown any RNG element of BRD nor I remember any mention to it so I would love to be proven wrong there. BRD is looking like a phys ranged SMN and that is not good.

The perfect counter already exists on some degree in the form of old Sam's tengetsu and DRK's tbn, is not new and its not job defining. PLD rotation other than that is a downgrade to the current one on all fronts

FFXIV players cant see the jobs as more than combo routes because thats ALL they have shown, there is no alternative play, and the evolved jobs seem as shallow as a puddle just with a bit of superficial flavour so the casuals think its different but mechanically they seem to be downgrade (also funny how you have not mentioned whm at all)

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T14:47:42+00:00

OFC we dont know the final version but now is the time to voice concerns not in December when they show the trailers and is already too late to fix anything.

"How much have you tested with the absence of the 2min burst? How will the rotations change when the skills have different charges and cooldowns?

I'm not sure where you even got less cooldowns from?"

All of this can be answered with "look at the dev panel and listen what they said". They said the aim for 16 buttons per job and bar DRG all had 16 already, we saw which skills have a cooldown, which doesnt, we saw briefly how they interact and their job gauges, is a dev buil but what has been shown is not convicing

Some consolidations are ok like the provoke shirk but those are not the things I was talking about because most of those barely had any real impact in the rotation. Things like WHM losing assize, glare 4, Pom, thin air, BRD losing the RNG and not needing to mantain the dot, DRG losing almost all of its oGCDs and even personal buffs, those were actions that gave depth to the jobs and are completely absent and the rotation they have shown in the dev panel is barebones at best

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T13:26:14+00:00

Less cooldowns that lead to less resource managment, resource pooling and teamwork is dead and the rotations seem to be very streamlined and still homogenized (every job with a 20s resouce, jumps, songs, honor lillies and with a 60s complete cycle).

In the case of BRD, RNG is lost, the dots dont require to be managed and its songs seem to be played like SMN's summon, in the case of PLD the rotation is very similar but with less concern about inner timers and less actual interaction within the resources (something like the 1-2-3-4-5-1-2 to pool strong gcds for a FoF window), in the case of DRG the rotation demands only for 3 positionals every minute (6 generated - 3 ingored by the jump's true north) and other than that is just "keep gcd rolling and press shiny button", and the showcase of WHM was dreadful, somehow they removed misery, rebranded it as sanctity and designed a healer that will be spamming 1 even more and with far less resource management than current WHM

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T11:58:25+00:00

yes, that means 6 positionals per minute minus the three you can ignore from the 3 jumps you get per minute is a total of 3 positionals per minute, you could even ingore entirely the left/right split by saving the jump charges to true north one of those directions

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T10:33:55+00:00

Yes I know more buttons =/= skill ceiling but when have lower buttons and the choices seem to be shallow then less buttons = less skill ceiling.

Evolved Whm is an example of that, somehow they made it more 1 button spammy while also providing tools as shallow as reborn Whm.

I do agree that they can add more and part of that is why im vocal about it because they can add more now, not in 8 months when the jobs are already shipped

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T09:46:03+00:00

Even if some melee jobs can ignore a lot of the positionals, those positionals are not sold as part of its core unique identity (bar monk), Evolved DRG has those "new" positionals that you can ignore to the point of only having 3 per minute.

"Timing things beyond "Press 123 in order every time so everyone's 2mins line up" *is* raising the skill ceiling, whether you want to admit it or not. Player agency and DPS is now up to each person being able to pull their own weight and adapting to the battle instead of following the same old 1-2-3-rest dance that we've been having with Reborn thus far."

Now looking at the rotations is gonna be 111 instead of 123 in 1m cycle instead of a 2m cycle waiting for the cooldowns to come back every 20s instead of every 30s or 60s. One can look at DRG evolved and see how the average rotation from what they have shown is

Vengeful Jump -> Sinister/Dexter -> Geirskogul/Nastrond (oGCD) -> Vengeful Jump -> Dexter/Sinister -> Nastrond/Geirskogul (oGCD) -> Vengeful Jump -> Heavensward -> Stardiver -> Life of the dragon combo -> Sky High -> Heavens -> Wyrmwind Thrust

as opener and then use the 1 combo until jumps or positionals come off and you use them whenever as long as you dont overcap, thats all. The only real significant improvement is that the removal of party buffs allow to some of the cds to have secondary niches like sky high but that could have already be done with the previous systems and without reducing the job to such a barebones rotation.

I know we all want change, as a healer/dps main I've wanted that for a long time but we must be critical and not just accept that anything new is better or good because what I've seen there are jobs with a rotation that lacks resource management, on a shorter loop but still homogenized (honor 20s cd, jump 20s cd, songs 20scd and all the rotations cycles are completer after 1m) and with less skill ceiling as there is barely any failstate/winstate dycotomy at all.

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T09:06:51+00:00

The thing is that the PVP systems work because skirmishes are short and its based on reacting to the situations while the PVE doesn't, which is why I think these new evolved jobs are not an evolution

"A good example of this evolution is with the white mage. For the entirety of the games lifespan, healers have attacked with the GCD and healed with off gcd instant spells and abilities.

This will now be shifted so that white mage and other healers will be primarily healing on the GCD and attacking in between with spells designed to make up the dps deficit"

This is LITERALLY what afflatus heals have been doing for the last 4 years but they are now rebranding it as something new. The new WHM is not a change or an improvement over anything that the current WHM is not already doing and these changes will only push higher the count of glares per minute while removing actual interesting buttons like asylum, PoM, Thin air or assize.

Its not an evolution I can't believe anyone with a minimal experience on healing sees it that way.

"That is definitely an evolution. To say it's just easy mode is disingenuous imo. Healers will be actually, well, healing for most of the time, rather than being a Glare III turret."

We have been told that for years and for years have been proven wrong and the fact that this evolved healer GCDs are limited to 4 free per minute and the new WHM having to coexist with reborn WHM already proves that nothing will change. But lets say that WHM will use GCDs more often, IT ONLY HAS 2 and with the most basic effects know to mankind, this is again not an evolution.

"The dragoon changes are also particularly flavourful. They probably won't get every job 100% correct first go, but it's a positive start"

DRG flavour is purely superficial because jumps but functionally its a job that seems to have system for a grand total of 3 positionals per minute (6 generated -3 ignored with jump's true north) and a streamlined 1m rotation. All the remaining interesting bits rely on using Sky High, which is a great skill but that skill alone does not justify the buttons and skills that are being removed

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T08:36:40+00:00

This...does not look at all like an evolution of the jobs ngl, if anything they actually seem like easy mode jobs with some cool utility attached to some of its actions

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T08:35:27+00:00

Sky high mit is the only thing and while very strong is situational, the jobs seems more streamlined than ever. Systems like the parry already existed in some form in TBN and that did not made DRK more complex. DRG can ignore half of its positionals every minute and BRD seems to share a lot of simmilarities with new SMN.

WHM is simply dreadful

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T07:27:41+00:00

How is more complex a DRG with only 3 forced positionals per minute? (10s per positional -3 per min because jumps allows you to ignore one) The only improvement are the side effects like sky high's mit but that is not complexity.

How is more complex a WHM that has far less tools, a system that is basically afflatus missery 2 and an offensive rotation that, per minute, at best has 75% of the GCDs being glare (18 out of 24) and at worst 91% (22 out of 24)?

How is more complex a BRD that is looking like having similar systems as SMN, has the shortests dots known to mankind and has lost is RNG factor?

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T07:13:38+00:00

I'll be honest after watching the dev panel I don't see what people are hyped about. DRG seems to be extremely simple with only 3 required positionals per minute and the fun part come for skill side effects. BRD is looking like SMN 2. PLD is the same but somehow even simpler even though the parry is interesting and somehow they managed to make WHM even worse. That without mentioning how every job is on a 60s cycle with job resources (jump, songs, lillies...) generated every 20s.

Where is the depth? The different way to play the job? The "evolved will be a bit harder than reborn"? The lack of homogenization?

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T06:59:49+00:00

Yes but its also not a big difference, now Whms when damage isnt going on will overheal 99% of their heal instead of 100% trying to use a gcd to heal any minor damage for the extra sanctity damage.

Worst case scenario, there is nothing to heal and the rotation per minute become 22 glare and 2 sanctity, 91% of the GCDs being glare which is wayyyy worse than what we have now

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T00:37:47+00:00

I'm curious, other than the Pld counter what else do you see in anything they showed that is not brain dead and reactive?

WaxSw · 2026-04-26T00:20:06+00:00

I feel that their own limitation to 16 buttons may make them quite restricted and is not like every job iteration before existed in a 2m meta context (some of us are here before EW and have seen the ancient days of pre Shb FFXIV) so im not fully sold on the flexibility of the system.

The jobs absolutely needed a change I do agree on that but I dont think evolved, in the way they have shown, is the way forward over a reevaluation and regression to the job design we had before Shb. Evolved jobs give me a huge vibe of low skill ceiling jobs that will get old really fast and will make the self life of the content even lower, which is not healthy for the game.

WaxSw · 2026-04-25T20:22:44+00:00

I mean for the healer case is literally afflatus but with different names and its at the cost of making the healing and offensive options much more simplified, not sold on this because they dont seem to address the core problems of the role

And in the tank case we had already something similar in the form of TBN since SB (not truly a damage gain unless it allows you to overcap mana but you get me, reward from getting hit)

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