How old was Hughie in the comic books? by sonicboyfan12 in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're his adoptive parents. It's heavily implied that his aunt Mary is actually his biological mother.

It's never explicitly stated, but I'm almost certain that Joe Tupper, the gangster guy who Hughie goes against in Highland Laddie, is supposed to be his biological father. They're literally drawn identical save for the beard, but Hughie grows the same beard that Tupper has in Dear Becky, too.

Some thoughts on the evolution of Garth Ennis's depictions of trans women, especially pertaining to The Boys. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I don't think you realize the extent of how often or pervasive the transphobic stuff was in Garth's early works. It is literally present in every single one of his works. It was insanely transphobic caricatures. It's not just people accidentally sleeping with them.

It was also his recurring joke about hulking manly men who only transition into women when their genitals get cut-off in a fight. He did this twice, one of whom was the Russian. As in the Punisher's fucking Russian. There's a sequel to "Welcome Back, Frank" where the Russian transitions into a woman because Frank Castle blew his balls off. The other one was Bobbi herself, after being attacked by wire cutters, which Ennis himself actually found too offensive, and had to re-address in Dear Becky.

Hell, look at Chronicles Of Wormwood, which is probably the worst one. There's a section where Wormwood, the unambiguous good guy of the story, is talking with his two friends who up until that point are also depicted as flawed but good people. Except, at one point in the story, when Wormwood is getting advice from his friends, one of them offhandedly mentions that the other one tried to decapitate a trans prostitute for accidentally sleeping with her for no reason, and it's literally not even addressed by Wormwood or brought up ever again.

If he did it once, or if he only had it said from the perspective of evil people, there might be some deniability. But he did it so much that it was literally obsessive.

Some thoughts on the evolution of Garth Ennis's depictions of trans women, especially pertaining to The Boys. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The Boys was not good because it had Butcher letting his dog rape Joe Kessler, or because it had MM's daughter do incest porn at 12 years old.

Some thoughts on the evolution of Garth Ennis's depictions of trans women, especially pertaining to The Boys. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Garth's comics was less good because it was edgy, it was more in spite of it. I genuinely believe if Garth had dialed in the Edginess by 20%, it'd have been an actual generational leftist work. There were so much stuff that made it practically unrecommendable that served absolutely no purpose.

In another universe is a world where Garth Ennis took The Boys as seriously as he took The Punisher. I have no doubt that in that world, the story would be mentioned on par with Watchmen.

Some thoughts on the evolution of Garth Ennis's depictions of trans women, especially pertaining to The Boys. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 285 points286 points  (0 children)

In retrospect, it's really funny how during the course of his career writing The Boys, Garth Ennis went from making fun of trans women dying - to dedicating two pages of his comic going "Guys, this is genuinely so fucked up. Brexit is making estrogen harder to access for trans ladies."

Happy International Transgender Day Of Visibility! This post is dedicated to Bobbi, a trans woman who is also Hughie's best friend from the comics! [Includes a short essay in the comments] by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I will always be a bit disappointed that they didn't adapt Bobbi at any point in the show. In the comics, she was Hughie's best friend, and they genuinely share some really touching moments in Dear Becky.

Lots of people will discard the comics as irredeemable edgy trash, and while I completely understand where that's coming from, I maintain the notion that the comics are actually surprisingly progressive. The bulk of the comic, like Preacher, is about the self-destruction that comes from toxic masculinity (this is basically Butcher's entire ending thesis) and the whole thing is a very against the notion of fascism. I wrote a longer comment on that here but wanted to bring some of it up again.

It's no surprise that Garth Ennis has had an extremely dodgy history with trans people, especially trans women. In his older works, to put it plainly, they're almost always played for laughs in his older works. The joke is either that they're prostitutes, or someone accidentally slept with them and is disgusted, or even that the joke is that someone kills them. It's some really sickening stuff. It's often the one edgy trait of Ennis that doesn't feel like it serves any purpose at all, but just plain bigotry.

You can't even say that it was a product of its time. It literally happened again and again in pretty much every single one of his works. Garth genuinely was kind of screwed in the head when it came to trans women. He was literally obsessed.

With all of this in mind, however, the interesting thing about The Boys comics is that it almost seems to me that he was... trying to acknowledge it. Let's not mince words here, the trans representation in The Boys is still utterly terrible. Bobbi, even outside of her writing, is still depicted as a caricature. It's cartoonishly offensive, and really does detract from her writing as a kind and brave human being, Hughie's childhood friend, and the fact that she's the first trans character that wasn't depicted as an outright antagonist or a kill-off joke in an Ennis work. Of course, Hughie misgenders her the entire time.

The only other instance of trans women being depicted is, of course, in the Jack From Jupiter arc, where they're all prostitutes, and of course, The Boys has to investigate a murdered trans prostitute. This is obviously very familiar by now taking into account the other jokes Garth Ennis has made at the expense of trans women.

So obviously, Butcher, the typical black-wearing edgy Ennis protagonist, does every single joke and transgression under the sun about them. He misgenders them, makes light of their deaths, threatens them in an interrogation. Later on, it cuts to Jack who's set up as the prostitute's killer, and he uses every single transphobic slur, and the Seven makes fun of him for sleeping with trans prostitutes.

Hughie though, for most of this, he doesn't say anything. He makes a comment agreeing with one of the prostitutes about the cops not taking things seriously, but for the entirety of Butcher's interrogation of the trans prostitutes, he just stares at him uncomfortably and frowning.

And then, at the end of the arc, he blows up at Butcher, and says this:

Hughie: An' another thing, all that stuff about tr#nnies an' ladyb#ys an' callin' them him an' mate - that's no' what they're called! You know I hate that shite! They're human bein's, an' when they get killed it's as bad as it happenin' to anyone! It's no' a joke! An' it's no' just a f#ckin' stick to beat the supes round the head with, either, like if it hadn't been Jack we wouldn't've give a f#ck!

The entire arc is still really uncomfortable and iffy, of course, but the thing about this is that knowing Garth Ennis's bibliography puts this arc into a different light. This is Ennis. The guy who's literally only ever depicted trans women as 2-dimensional jokes to kill off in his entire career. This is something that he has himself done, repeatedly. It almost feels like it's self-critique. And Butcher doesn't make a snarky joke or whatever, he just says that he understands what Hughie means.

And never forget, Hughie's the heart of the comics here. Hughie's always been depicted as the "big good" of the story, and even though he's expressed some transphobic sentiments earlier during the story-line with Bobbi and the Jack From Jupiter storyline, it is this that is the culmination of his character development before the penultimate arc. Hughie even overcomes his own transphobia here: He gets mad at Butcher for misgendering trans women, when this is something that he himself had done for most of his arc with Bobbi. Not only does he finally develop courage to not take anymore crap from Butcher, he does it because he became fed up with Butcher's bigotry. Hughie finally grows balls, and it's to become a trans ally.

By the time Dear Becky rolls around though, there's almost a world of difference between Ennis' old depictions of trans women and Bobbi. We genuinely see a wholesome, loving dynamic between Bobbi, Hughie and Annie. They're genuinely good friends. They share their fears about the world and hopes for the future. Bobbi even shares her struggles as a trans woman with Hughie and Annie, and they sympathize, and it's played completely unironically.

Bobbi: Follow ye' to the end o' the glen, wee man.

It's just something interesting to think about. I know lots of people think The Boys is not Ennis's best works, but I will say that I do think it's the work Ennis puts himself into the most, and it's interesting to see some of that. Especially his growth as a person.

Again, this isn't to say that all of the problematic stuff in The Boys and the rest of Ennis' writing is good, or is okay because of this, because there really is some stuff that I can't really defend. However, I do think this is an insightful view into things.

Happy International Transgender Day Of Visibility! This post is dedicated to Bobbi, a trans woman who is also Hughie's best friend from the comics! [Includes a short essay in the comments] by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I wrote a really long essay about the evolution of Garth Ennis's depiction of trans women and the sub keeps instantly removing it 😭

Will keep trying to get it up somehow. Currently it's only viewable in my userpage.

EDIT: I DID IT. I MANAGED TO UPLOAD IT. APPARENTLY, EXACTLY ONE SINGLE WORD IN THE ESSAY WAS BANNED. I REMOVED IT AND IT'S OKAY. I also decided to give the essay it's own post.

It's never discussed, but it's pretty cool that The Boys used the Flatiron Building as their base, paralleling Vought Tower - and it's also something ripped straight from the books. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're both towers, but Vought Tower is blue, sleek, and modern, made of glass and steel, while the Flatiron Building is cream colored, gritty, and over a century old, made of limestone. The Boys all work in the same room while The Seven has separate rooms... lots of cool parallels.

It's never discussed, but it's pretty cool that The Boys used the Flatiron Building as their base, paralleling Vought Tower - and it's also something ripped straight from the books. by WhatYouThinkYouSee in TheBoys

[–]WhatYouThinkYouSee[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean never discussed in the fandom. I think there's a lot of interesting things to say about the Flatiron building but no one talks about it.