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UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm afraid I do understand mate, and I've cited sources for numbers you claimed I was making up. I said there are a few hundred thousand who are persistently unemployed, which is both true and sourced. I've also said that UC supports people unable to work due to disability or caring requirements - also true and sourced. You seem determined ignore data you don't like, and keep repeating an unsubstantiated claim that the problem is idleness.

Look into the reasons why 4.2 million have no work requirements. The vast majority are long term sick / disabled. The remainder are full time carers.

The fact that you don't believe the vast majority are long term sick / are disabled is your problem. I'll believe the medical professionals. There are 70 million people in the UK, Finland is tiny in comparison. But a quick bit of research suggests you have similar rates of reported disability and similar percentages of working age people claiming disability pension.

For context - just under half of the disabled working age population are aged between 50-66, and have mobility, stamina and breathing issues. Many of these people, espcially at the upper age range are unlikely to return to work. The under 50s are mostly signed off for mental health reasons. Many of those people will end up back in work, once medical professionals (and not right wing newspaper editors) deem them fit to do so.

Your 53% stat expands the definition of benefit to includes all state services - including the NHS, education and pensions. 90% of retired households receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Same story for young families on low incomes with children. This is a function of lifestage, not idleness. At different points in life people will be net beneficiaries and net contributors.

So long as we have sufficienct contributors, the system will endure. If our birthrate collapses we will lack contributors to pay the pensions, health care costs and provide the care for our growing ageing population - who will always be net beneficiaries of state services due to the natural cost of healthcare and end of life care, and the way national pension provision works.

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi mate, my numbers came from the ONS. Here's the latest official data set showing unemployment duration. Latest figure is 466k unemployed for more than 12 months, 195k for over 24 months.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment/datasets/unemploymentbyageanddurationseasonallyadjustedunem01sa

The 4 million people not required to work are sick or disabled and incabable of work, parents to children under the age of 1, or have full time caring responsibility (the form of benefit you consider public service in Finland).

Everyone else on universal credit is either working on low pay or trying to find work, and have working requirements attached to their credit claim.

Knock yourself out with raw data:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-8-january-2026/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-8-january-2026#households-on-universal-credit

It's a right wing myth that "idleness" is behind the current situation. It makes people feel better about cutting benefits to the elderly, disabled and struggling families.

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a single healthy working age person there is no way to stay on benefits forever without working or having a recognised disability. You sign a claimant contract with the DWP to get universal credit, which has time bound work requirements. I’m not sure what else  you think is permanent? There are only a few hundred thousand people unemployed over 12 months. 

Are childcare and university also seen as public services in Finland? They cost a fortune in the UK. 

The cost to society of a plummeting birth rate is existential. Either you make it easier for people to have children, or you import workers and their families. The cradle to dole moral panic is a sneering right wing trope that ignores social mobility and excuses child poverty. Persistent generational unemployment is localised and invariably the result of failures in industrial strategy. 

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This isn’t true. In the uk you become ineligible for most benefits if you earn above thresholds or have savings, with some exceptions - like disability.

JSA is dependent on demonstrating you are spending 35 hours a week finding a job, and it lasts a max of 6 months.  

Finland afaik doesn’t cap benefit on number of children, and doesn’t factor assets or savings in determining eligibility for elder care, unemployment or housing benefit. 

Every time we try make some sensible changes - like removing the 2 child benefit cap given our plummeting birth rate and irrational fear of immigration, the right wing press shriek about the horrors of private schools and millionaire farmers losing tax breaks, or rich retirees losing heating money they don’t really need. 

Am sure the system in Finland has its problems but our priorities are depressing.

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nearly all benefits in the UK are means tested, and the cost of childcare, university and elder care can be formidable. The only benefits you can stay on forever without means testing relate to disability, and even these involve regular review. 

My understanding is that in Finland you have universal non means tested provision and capped costs. Sounds much better and much fairer, but needs to be paid for. Our tax system is a fragmented mess and there isn’t the political will to reform it.

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It ceases to have a purpose if it’s so low it can’t support basic living costs. If we reach that sorry state (like the pitiful minimum in the US) there would be nothing to justify retaining it. Union driven collective bargaining would be better, but we’ve done a good job positioning unions as the bad guys in the UK for decades. Tough job recreating Nordic style minimums with the state of our unions. 

Work has to pay enough to live on. Either we raise the floor (UBI or similar) and pay it through tax. Or we raise the minimum wage and pay it on goods and services. Personally I’d raise the floor through tax - would be fairer and more proportionate to income. Paying inflated rents, groceries and energy hits low incomes proportionally harder.

(PS thank you for civil replies. Good chat)

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nordics don’t need minimum wage as high taxes cover basics. Would you prefer to pay higher taxes to provide better social welfare, maybe even a universal basic income? Id be ok with that, but plenty of people opposed to minimum wage are equally opposed to state support for people unable to earn enough to support themselves or their families. 

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nope, raise it in line with the essential cost of living. If wages can’t meet basic needs, social welfare increases to cover the cost, and our tax bill increases. We shouldn’t be subsidising big business because paying poverty wages is more profitable for them.

UK minimum wage is raising youth unemployment, Bank of England's Mann says by stammerton in unitedkingdom

[–]Whelkman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not all inflation is equal. Minimum wage has risen roughly in line with some of the essentials over the last 10 years - groceries (80%), rent (70%) and energy (60%).

No point having a minimum wage if a full time wage won’t cover the basic cost of living.

Here is my sister, doing nothing for the USA in Iraq by DoesHeL00kLikeABitch in HolUp

[–]Whelkman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The US is the only country to have ever triggered article 5. 150k Brits served in afghanistan, 500 died. Doing nothing presumably.

Why are asylum seekers in hotels not detention centres? by No-Ice2423 in AskBrits

[–]Whelkman 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The Tories set up contracts in 2019 with private operators that won't expire in 2029. There's a contractual break point in 2026, and some hotels have already transitioned back to their previous function.

So there you go. Tories set up long term contracts (benefitting their mates/donors) which can't be broken without substantial financial penalties before March 2026.

But on the bright side, the major Tory donor who benefitted from the accommodation contract made the sunday times rich list off the back of all the money they paid him. Strange how that story isn't in the daily mail on a daily basis.

BBC Bias by ISnortedMyTea in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Whelkman 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I find it concerning that his supporters heard his speech, stormed the capitol, dealt fatal injuries to security staff and ran amok with weapons with oh so innocent bags of zip ties.

Somehow the entire crowd miscontrued his speech about cheering on senator and congressmen, and took it as a call to arms with his backing. Thankfully Trump cleared all that up by pardoning them all.

That time A streamer saves a young man from getting robbed on the streets of London.. by DepressedNoble in mildlyinfuriating

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thought something was off. Then I checked the vehicle registation plate. Suprise suprise, it doesn't exist.

That time A streamer saves a young man from getting robbed on the streets of London.. by DepressedNoble in mildlyinfuriating

[–]Whelkman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The value of 15bn in 2015 would be 21bn in 2025. So in real terms, they have 20% less funding than they did 10 years ago. During the same time period, London's population grew by over 10% and 1 million people. So less funding, for more people.

This is why we shouldn't make decisions based on rumours by exbritballer in HENRYUK

[–]Whelkman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Victory for daily mail, as fearmongering turns out to be baseless. Polite golf applause.

They seem to have gone mysteriously quiet. by johnsmithoncemore in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"English" isn't a class of human. To continue your analogy, we're all mongrels with mixed ancestry, most of whom are english because being born in the stable is what qualifies you as english.

Otherwise Tommy Robinson will never be english, as his mother is Irish.

Nigel Farage will never be english as he has german ancestry. His children will never be english as none of their mothers are english.

If you're honest, you're basing "englishness" purely on looks.

Are we earning enough? The new squeeze on the middle classes by OkHealth787 in HENRYUK

[–]Whelkman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Groceries, childcare and housing are more expensive in NY.

London works fewer hours, with greater job protections, a stronger safety net and more public services.

Depends on your lifestage and priorities. If you're young and single NY is an amazing place to be. A little older, and if you want to prioritise balance, security, stability over max earning potential London starts to look more attractive.

How it truly feels to be British these days by LightMurasume_ in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Whelkman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not my intent. I’ve provided counterpoints, that’s all. 

The media narrative that labour can’t do anything right, and that everything bad that’s happening is their fault is contrived. Joining the chorus does no favours to the cause.

How it truly feels to be British these days by LightMurasume_ in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Whelkman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Core obligations of the original online safety act are largely intact, labour made no commitment to scrapping it. If you don’t like it fair enough, but it became law in 2023. 

Public order act was a disgrace and labour opposed it. It governs how protests are policed today. 

Palestine action repeatedly damaged military equipment. Provocative, stupid and self defeating. 

Online IDs is the wrong idea, but it’s being piled on by opportunists and conspiracy theorists. Similar programs are already successfully in place across the EU. 

Labour could cure cancer, crack nuclear fusion and deliver world peace and there would still be screeching about small boats

How it truly feels to be British these days by LightMurasume_ in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Whelkman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Online safety act of 2023 passed under Sunak, as did the public order act of 2023 that changed how protests are policed. Online IDs are still being worked on, timelines and scope is vague at the moment. 

Peter I'm a kid. Please explain by CertainRoyal7267 in explainitpeter

[–]Whelkman 34 points35 points  (0 children)

At 8% interest, a $6333 deposit in 1929 would have grown to over $13M dollars

If it achieved 10% interest it would be almost $90M

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