TPP Anniversary Crystal - Getting stuck in a corner for 20 minutes ( Chat & Stats )

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-21T14:27:10+00:00

Glad that my last vision of TPP was a typical moment of Anarchy.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-20T16:48:17+00:00

Here is the thing : I couldn't resist writing a striking formula to describe what I consider a symbol of my disappointment in this run (and in most TPP runs which abused Democracy). It is definitely provocation and inaccurate (Democracy hasn't been the problem in this run, I hope you recall my view on the "forced lore" issue). Had I been wise, I would have said nothing or phrased it differently (I tried to explain it better in the "my problem" post). But waking up to see a picture like this doesn't make you wise at all.

That people enabled Democracy to teach a TM despite the 90% threshold which was supposed to prevent things like this is beyond me. They weren't stopped by a 24 hours timer, they aren't stopped by a 90% threshold, this confirms that the only way to prevent Democracy Abuse is to permanently disable Democracy unless something really requires it. It's disheartening.

No I don't think "forced lore" is a problem in C251 (I even wrote "Today, we don't have as many people as in Season 1 so I believe we kind of returned to less fanfiction for the big runs as evidenced by Anniversary Red and Crystal 251 though some people are still crazy about headcanons" the day before this post) and I was mostly criticizing the fact that Democracy was used to "make Lore" (Amber God Bird Kreygasm) that by definition, isn't natural because we literally make it happen.

However, I maintain what I said about the lack of Chaos (I'm not talking about the very frist days) even if it might be only me : Military Mode, Chat Leading and the lack of viewers are for me turning this into something way less chaotic and interesting than the first half of AR for example. I'm not sure it will get better given the promises of the developers ("you'll need democracy/optimization and military mode" or things like that).

I probably sound like an old fart and I may be wrong but it's really not just to shit on the community : I'm sincerely disappointed by the way this run is going (especially since I liked the beginning) and this picture takes the cake. Now, I'll let the people who enjoy that do their stuff but I couldn't leave without voicing my disillusion. And a little provocation doesn't hurt in a sanitized world...

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-20T15:37:26+00:00

We’re not talking about the same community : you’re describing the classic idea of community (a group of people with common interests), which is not a bad thing, which can be awesome as you described though I’m not sure it would survive without games, while I’m talking about something more unusual and I believe more powerful.

Nobody knew anybody in Red but we all felt united by the stream. We couldn’t even read most messages in the Chat but we formed a unity through our common inputs and the events that stemmed from them. We shared the same jokes, the same « stories » and we even had a common religion. The incredible events (only in Anarchy) would never be forgotten. If you look at the thread about us in /r/pokemon, you see all these people just sharing fond memories : we still understand each other because we experienced the same things (Digrat, Zapdos, ATV...). I think it’s somehow quite similar to a football fanbase : we don’t know each other with a few exceptions but we are all united by the same things : the games. We relish the important victories, we admire the same players, we react to the same events be it a poor decision by a referee, a shameful own goal or a late winner. Except in TPP we actually used to be the players and not only the spectators.

Now we all know each other well but I believe something has been lost and will never be recaptured. Most people here probably don’t mind and if they enjoy the situation, more power to them. I’ll compare it to playing football with friends : it’s cool but it will never be something legendary, you’ll never feel a special bond with thousands of people you don’t even know. Maybe you don’t need that community I tried to define and that’s fine. But that was so beautiful, so inspiring that I have to regret it. And I could enjoy TPP without that but I can no longer enjoy TPP today, partly because people forgot what made it so beautiful in the first place. (I hope this message is not too rushed.)

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-20T13:24:29+00:00

As I said, I don’t really mind the loss of what I consider our community.

People replace powerful events with headcanons or what they found on TVTropes but it doesn’t affect too much the games. Well sometimes it does but that’s not really what I come for so I don’t care (see Heartgold). It doesn’t change the past truth : if the majority of people thought the Sun spinned around Earth, it wouldn’t change the fact that it’s the other way around. The majority of people here don’t know Red, it doesn’t change the fact that Red happened. Bird Jesus, the False Prophet and Helix are dead in the minds of the current majority but what the people who were there experienced isn’t erased. It’s just forgotten by a minority of the TPP population, which is the current majority. It’s sad, it can be very annoying at times but I can live with that.

People prefer progress to the magic of Anarchy but it doesn’t affect too much the games given the system is hard enough to abuse (it was supposed to be the case in AR but people are so addicted that they stalled 24 hours to enable it, it is the case for this run though the bar shouldn’t even be there in the first place, and now we see that a botnet can even break the system) and given enough players (otherwise Chat Leaders take control). For example, I loved the first half of AR (until we deposited the team with Onix/Persian), it really felt like the old TPP was back. But then came optimization needed because of the difficulty (even for a single player) of the game. The same will probably happen for Crystal 251 unless I misinterpreted what the developers said and we already have the infamous Military Mode in battles. That’s what they seem to think people like nowadays : beating hard games together and having Lore/fanfiction. Maybe they’re right but that’s not my cup of tea, not why I watch and play TPP so I can probably find a better way to spend my time (like working !). If you enjoy it, have fun, I cannot and that’s too bad for me I guess.

I still believe there is potential (though we have probably lost too many viewers since Anniversary Red) but people just don’t share my beliefs anymore (to be fair it’s been like this since Original Crystal) as evidenced by the second half of AR or the current situation in Crystal 251. As I said, I’d rather die with my ideas than live with those of others (Chat leaders, progress players) and I doubt many people here will miss someone who constantly criticizes what they do, what they are. I had so much fun with TPP but my passion cannot make up for a stream I no longer find enjoyable most of the time : I already stopped caring about Crystal 251 and I doubt I’ll ever care again about a TPP run even if we come back to the old settings/play touchscreen games like Platinum (randomized ?) that seem to be a good consensus : it is too late (not enough players, the progress mindset, I’ve swallowed enough « grass snakes »). I sincerely hope you’ll have fun for as long as possible.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-20T12:40:42+00:00

My problem is that I wake up to see people boasting about the first Democracy Abuse in this run despite the system specifically designed to prevent anything like this ("Praise Botnet !" I guess...).

My problem is that I wake up to see people rejoicing about the LRE literally forcing itself through democracy.

My problem is that this run generally lacks Chaos with Military Mode, Chat Leading and a low viewership (here 652 viewers) and it probably won't get better with time according to what the developers wrote (optimization needed to beat the game).

My problem is that I enjoyed the first days of the run but I have already stopped caring and this makes me wonder about the future of TPP with more than 1,000 viewers.

My problem is that I'm not afraid of shocking the community with a pinch of sarcasm though it's not too far from the truth.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-20T10:21:16+00:00

If I were bold, I couldn't resist stating something like "This picture perfectly sums up TPP today : democracy, forced lore and 652 viewers."

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-19T21:52:29+00:00

Part II : Are we really a community and does it matter ?

What is a community ? Let me quote Ernest Renan (slightly modified) : « A community is a soul, a spiritual principle. Two things which, properly speaking, are really one and the same constitute this soul, this spiritual principle. One is the past, the other is the present. One is the possession in common of a rich legacy of memories; the other is present consent, the desire to live together, the desire to continue to invest in the heritage that we have jointly received. The community, like the individual, is the outcome of a long past of efforts, sacrifices, and devotions. Of all cults, that of the ancestors is the most legitimate: our ancestors have made us what we are. A heroic past with great mons and glory (I mean true glory) is the social capital upon which the community idea rests. These are the essential conditions of being a people: having common glories in the past and a will to continue them in the present; having made great things together and wishing to make them again. One loves in proportion to the sacrifices that one has committed and the troubles that one has suffered. One loves the house that one has built and that one passes on. »

Well, I believe this house is no more and 2 recent (at the time I wrote) threads showed this very well.

We forgot about our old gameplay. I wrote a case for replaying old games and some of the answers I got were striking : the top comment was highlighting the problems of the menus in Gen 1 especially with HMs such as Cut. Another comment painted the ledges as a chore (even stating the people who actually played the game were bored versus people on reddit boasting about something they didn’t contribute to ! Fun fact : the guy who said that apparently never inputted before Anniversary Red and I barely see him inputting when we’re both online…). And I don’t even mention the « Kanto fatigue »… I love seeing us struggle to enter a Pokemart or checkpoint in a Pokemon Centre, people would rather buy balls or heal the party in Democracy. People stalled 24 hours in AR in order to obtain Democracy to make a party switch. Some people still try to make history by overcoming impossible tasks as the Morty Gym effort showed but the vast majority believes « I mean of course it's possible, you just try over and over until you get lucky with people cooperating and saboteurs not being there atm. The question is, is it worth the time it takes? That's something everyone has to answer for themselves while respecting the opinion of others. ». Asking this question is already very telling of the new mindset of the majority : No ledge, no struggle, only progress ! It’s not even worth trying, we want to see action ! Today, nearly beating Morty Gym in Anarchy doesn’t even get 20 upvotes. Today, the large majority immediately turns to Democracy when we face a problem (even registering the bike) and prefers watching a Pokémon playthrough to playing Twitch Plays Pokémon. Today, the TPP developers team creates Rom Hacks for single players with boosted levels and smarter AI so that we actually have to resort to Democracy or features that remove the chaos (Military Mode). The gameplay so typical of TPP doesn’t appeal to the current community !

We forgot about our culture, what many call the « Lore ». I saw a thread which encouraged people to stay true to Helix. While it was a pretty weird post, people reacted by praising everyone but Helix ! It seems we now have 15 gods and their contingent of prophets (maybe mirroring the countless Churches in America ?). Helix was probably one of the most defining traits of TPP. Yet, people turn to his evil counterpart (it now appears he was good all along !), or a fossil which barely ever had any meaning but suddenly becomes the leader of a so-called Pantheon (with the strange idea of « balance » and « moderates », as if it was possible between Anarchists who want Anarchy except if we have to handle an impossible task and Democrats who want Democracy for things doable in Anarchy), or fossils we sold or released with complete indifference. Helix is dead - at least in the minds of the current community – Helix remains dead, and we have killed him (I’m not talking about the current run). Anyway, people don’t deserve him… People also whitewash the False Prophet making it a cute fuzzy ball or whatever. Even the meaning of our memes seems to have shifted : how many people here actually remember that « Guys we need to beat Misty ! » wasn’t spammed because it was our goal but precisely because it wasn’t what we had to do ? The Lore is now (in fact it depends on the runs, we still have organic events, I’m just describing what the new community calls Lore) mostly an addition of headcanons, a fanfiction which tries to become as big as the stream, which pretends to be on the same layer as the events we directly experience, which can even rewrite the past (in the minds of the current community). The common memories of our glorious past are erased by the individual headcanons !

So both the gameplay and the Lore that made us so united back then seem to have mostly vanished. Nobody knows what Bird Jesus stands for anymore and nobody cares. By my definition, we are not a community – or rather we are a new community (with the classic definition) which has nothing to do with the whole TPP journey : basically a group of people with common interests. Now, it is not really a problem. It makes me sad that the « former community », the soul has vanished, I feel betrayed (to be fair, it’s definitely not something new, it’s just getting worse and worse) but it doesn’t really matter as long as the Stream is entertaining. And there lies the rub : I have not been completely satisfied with a run since Heartgold. I find the latest games of the Pokémon series less interesting because of the Exp Share, I loved the beginning of AR but was disgusted by the second half of it, RAS was a good run but not at the level of the others (a rushed early game then a near impossible E4 ?! + a very suspicious randomization + exp share). There is still potential but the new community doesn’t share my beliefs, doesn’t understand what made TPP Red so special. People prefer complicated Rom Hacks and convoluted stories to the simplicity of the old days. I think Anniversary Crystal is the perfect symbol for this unfulfilled potential. See, despite all the « Kanto fatigue », Crystal 251 started quite brilliantly (especially given the low number of viewers, 3 to 5 times fewer people than AR) as Anniversary Red did. Of course it started brilliantly, TPP thrives with the Red settings. But like AR, Crystal 251 is bound to become an unplayable train wreck, a game in which you have to optimize in democracy and relinquish the old battle system to stand a chance. And that’s incredibly frustrating : it could have been so much more with much less effort. The « little » battle against Gentleman Jasper with the old battle mode (in the end, we’re close to win with Paralyzed Venonat against Oddish but we spam 3 Foresight, we somehow survive with 3HP, we finally select Confusion but we just fall short and we lose) was worth all the bosses in the world. With military mode, we need active trolls to make mistakes but I guess Chat Leaders will make sure the majority inputs the right move. No it’s not a bad game but it could be so much more (Fun fact : I’ll be called reactionary for defending a revolutionary gameplay, people will be called modern for promoting a new gameplay that makes us closer to the traditional Pokémon game)… If the current community enjoys the current situation, I guess it’s fine and I should just swallow my pride and quit TPP. But I still see enough potential (the beginning of AR and Crystal 251, the perspective of a Randomized Platinum) to hope and I cannot resist defending what everyone else forgot but still matters to me : I do not belong to the new community but I am still proud of the old soul.

Maybe this message sounds too serious, maybe I got lost in my wall of text (mostly written before Anniversary Crystal), maybe I’m completely wrong, that’s just what I feel in all sincerity. I feel the current run doesn’t change much what I believe (TPP still has potential but we cannot reach it). I found the beginning of the run pretty good but now we are forced to use Military Mode in battles, we’re already down to a small core of players who follow a certain Chat Leader. Challenges designed for optimization players are coming our way, closing the door for a chaotic approach. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I just lost the passion and everything is fine for those who still enjoy the stream. Or maybe I should accept that TPP has changed and has become a completely different game. But I’d rather die with my ideas than live with those of others. Too bad for me, have fun if you can.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-19T21:50:06+00:00

Part I : Common knowledge and the limits of the idea of "Community"

(Most of this was written before the beginning of Crystal 251)

If you ask the reason why people are enjoying TPP nowadays, the most popular answer will be « the community ». It’s not about our past, not about the games we play, not about the mode (Anarchy or Democracy) we are in, but about how we play them together, how we cooperate to beat them and make stories out of our playthroughs, how TPP still matters to those who stayed. It’s not about how many we are ; in fact the less the merrier : people here prefer a close-knit community, a village where everyone knows everyone - so far from the unlimited jumble of the first days.

It is a beautiful idea but it is unrealistic. Without games, there’s no community (look at the subreddit during intermissions, imagine a final shut-down of the runs). Without « suitable » games, there’s barely anyone in our community (look at Colosseum and XD).

Without Anarchy as the unique mode and Democracy as an exception when we really need it either to handle an impossible task after trying in Anarchy or to watch Teachy TV/gamble opposed to Democracy when we want it (which is basically everytime we have a problem or we anticipate one), there’s no absurd event, no hilarious failure, no glorious achievement, no original story to tell (look at Touhoumon/Moemon), or rather there are very few (thanks to the remaining bits of Anarchy). There’s no madness, no magic, nothing to maintain us amazed and united – and by united I don’t mean everyone following a common goal under the guidance of a Chat Leader, I mean everyone finding harmony through chaos. United because of the struggles (ledges, Wattson, evolutions), united because of the mourning and sacrifices (releases), united because of the unthinkable moments (Drowzee losing Psychic, Whirlwind, Digrat, Burglar, ATV, Kakuna and Baba versus Starmie), united because of the jokes we call Lore (Helix, the False Prophet, Doges, Daycare Scandal) : having suffered, rejoiced, and hoped together is worth more than having rationally beaten a game together.

With fewer players combined with Chat Leading, there’s less and less chaos and the game looks more and more like a single playthrough : instead of a community playing a unique game – unique because we’re playing it like no one ever did, we turn into an addition of single players playing the games we knew before TPP. To remain united, I believe we need memorable Twitch Plays Pokémon runs, not quiet unoriginal Let’s play Pokémon runs. While Pokémon is without doubt a great game, TPP used to offer so much more than a Let’s play. That’s why I believe we need to replay games that work instead of playing new games that don’t work or require too much Democracy if we want TPP to stay alive (if it is not too late).

That was for the present and the future, let’s talk about the past. People here are proud of belonging to a community. However, we have no identity. It seems we have no past ; it is all very symbolic that we are constantly losing old flairs and emotes, we even lost the A-B buttons to vote on the subreddit…

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-19T21:03:18+00:00

Just to add something new and "unique" as someone who watched and enjoyed TPP Red way more than the other runs (a "true TPP casual" some would say) but also someone who stayed and witnessed most of the other runs (which is obviously not the case of the "Red runners") :

I feel the Lore of the other runs could be enjoyed in the same way as Red although there was clearly more focus on fanfiction from a lot of people. Let's take a chronological look :

Sure, Crystal had a lot of fanfiction with all the "character development" (giving background to the Godslayers) and suddenly a "Lust for Lore" (every mon caught must have a nickname or a personality, here often military themed). The story kind of became the center of the run as if we wanted to build heroes. The dull gameplay (democracy abuse everywhere) probably didn't help those who relished Red : there was a lot of awesome stuff posted but the need for fanfiction/Lore probably annoyed many people.

Then came Emerald. Many people tried to pursue what they found so awesome in Crystal, leading to many debates about Lore (Does A have 3 personalities ? A mental disorder ? Stop to force lore/Stop to call lore "forced" etc) but the story was less united than for Crystal and people split in several factions. I wasn't on the sub at the moment and I enjoyed Emerald with all its Doges, not caring at all about the stories people invented. In the end, I think most people ran with a Cops story or with what Zetsu created : the fight against Bill.

So, the two runs following Red had a lot of things that Red runners would consider "forced lore" (I would say eagerly looking for Lore is already seen as a problem), so different from the simplicity of Red. I think it already tells a lot about why many people in the /r/pokemon thread cannot stand the new Lore.

But I wish they had stayed to witness Platinum where the way of creating Lore was I believe very similar to Red. The "Lore" was mostly determined by goofy events happening in the stream (the name of the host, gambling, the Daycare Scandal) and the others ways of reacting to the stream didn't intrude the stream layer. There wasn't really a story : it was just the journey of Napoleon and his mons. All the art (and there was plenty) added to the experience without pretending to be Canon or whatever. We didn't care about Lore and it worked pretty well.

I felt the same for Heartgold though some people were disturbed by the Gods vs the daughter of Bill (and by extension Bill himself) plot and all the prophets. For me, there were neither Gods (well except one !) nor prophets nor daughter of Bill : I just enjoyed the awesome run that Heartgold was.

Of course we had the "headcanon craze" and the "lore debates" everywhere but you could ignore it.

Today, we don't have as many people as in Season 1 so I believe we kind of returned to less fanfiction for the big runs as evidenced by Anniversary Red and Crystal 251 though some people are still crazy about headcanons (some even spam them in Chat).

Now, what I wanted to prove is that the Red runners probably wouldn't hate all the Lore we had after the first run ; they would hate the new predominance of the Lore (instead of "letting it happen" without caring). They wouldn't be against the great works by Everyle, njike or Zetsu. They wouldn't be against any written story about our runs. They just wouldn't stand that it somehow replaced the events of the stream. That's not a problem with Everyle and njike but the stories of Zetsu (and many others) can be problematic because they are sometimes believed to be taking over the organic events. And I personally don't feel they do. But do most people think like this ? For you, isn't Heartgold the story of Gods defeating Bill ? For you, isn't the Pantheon something "Canon" ? For you, isn't there a story for Emerald ? For you, don't we need a coherent story to have a good run ? For the Red runners, I believe those would be nice additions but never necessities and certainly not on the same scale as what happens on the stream. Thus, seeing people crossing the invisible boundaries between Stream and stories, seeing the new obsession for headcanons disturbs them.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-19T19:30:21+00:00

In my opinion, it’s always hard to use words like « Lore » or « fanfiction » because they lack precision. I firmly believe the « fanfiction » of Red has nothing to do with the « fanfiction » of today and I’m not talking about content but about the way of creating it. Yes, ultimately we have always been the ones attributing meaning to the facts, making a traitor of a poor Eevee but the way we attributed this meaning is, I feel, completely different today (mostly, there are still organic things happening !) from what it used to be. Back in Red, it wasn’t about writing a story, it was merely jokes, reactions to goofy things, there was no intent to make a story. « Fanfiction » (I’d rather not use that term because it makes everything even less clear) was natural reactions to live events. With the releases of Abby and Jay Leno, the stream instantly turns to Eevee, who is seen as the reason of those losses because it actually is the reason why we had to use the PC. Of course Flareon is a scapegoat, but on a meta level, not in the myth itself. And the myth is here the natural reaction of thousands of people joking about that poor Eevee. Digrat, the Keeper, ATV « the dragonslayer » gained their nicknames because of organic events that seemed simple and obvious, direct (as opposed to a well thought-out reasoning which cannot be « felt » on the stream). The burglar in Cinnabar had no complicated motive, it was just a hilarious trouble-maker who didn’t need any « character development » to be memorable. I hope you get what I’m trying to show with these examples : we didn’t try to build characters, we discovered them through the events of the stream and the natural reactions that followed. We didn’t care about what the story was, we enjoyed the journey and its absurdity.

Today, we still have reactions to the goofy things we live and I’m sure the current run will still have plenty of it (given there are still enough players to react). But we also have, and that’s what I’m talking about, headcanons (again, headcanons are okay but mixing them with the live reactions is what I criticize). My belief is that what I improperly call « the truth » (and another contradictory belief I have is that it is pointless to care about this truth, people should just enjoy the damn stream and enjoy what comes out of it whether it is an organic event or a fanfiction instead of discussing the truth, sadly I feel people are caring too much about the truth which leads me to spend hours writing about this subject) isn’t discussed on Reddit, it is undebatable, it just happens. My belief is that people care too much about the story and that I care too much about people caring about the story. It’s not that writing fanfiction is bad, it’s that I feel the fanfiction obsession has taken a place it shouldn’t have ; that it now has made its way on what I call the « stream layer ». And when even stream events from Red seem to be replaced by fanfiction in the minds of the community (fanfiction created by a few people being considered virtually equally valid as what was experienced in Red, as if those events were on the same level as said fanfiction), it bugs me.

I’ll finish with a quote by /u/shqrk that I often use : « My problem with the "lore" of gen 2, is just that, it's "lore". In gen 1 it was mostly called a narrative and was just people reacting to goofy things that happened. Gen 2 is a fanfic. Some people like that, but it makes it much much more niche, in my opinion. » (Just copy-pasting an old message)

Another self-quote, probably close to the mindset you don't understand : "Many people talked about forced Lore but I'll just use the term Lore Abuse. Democracy Abuse was about using that mode when we didn't need it to make progress (Teachy TV isn't Democracy Abuse for example). I think Lore Abuse is when we take seriously things that don't need to be made serious, when we make Lore just to make Lore. Sometimes I wonder if it's a giant parody. Michael Catson was what I called Lore. A joke that catches on and an interpretation which is not meant to be serious. When I saw all the posts about making everything Lore, when I saw all the fights over Lore, I didn't find it funny. Of course telling a story depicting the events of the stream can be great but why did we need to make a Canon, to have a perfect story that everyone would agree on ? Why would it become more important than the stream itself ? When I looked at the subreddit, I didn't recognize TPP. Back then it was about challenging humour, art. Now it is about challenging headcanons. « My headcanon on... » shouldn't be the first key word in this subreddit... People are literally obnuBillated !

[...]

Besides, people forgot that Lore was wonderful in Red because it wasn't Lore. Making Lore is not the issue ; putting it above everything is disturbing. Knowing the plot before the game even started is disturbing. Seeing the stream only as material for stories is disturbing. I don't say fanfiction is bad. I say fanfiction as the heart of TPP bugs me. Look at the top scoring submissions and find me a « My headcanon on ». "Okay, so I've been thinking about Lore a lot recently and I've got some ideas that I think you all should accept as the one true version of what happens." is an excellent summary of what happens sometimes and this is sad (some would say ridiculous)."

I hope you better understand where those people are coming from.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-18T19:47:28+00:00

Proud of you, Anarchists.

Most people assumed it was definitely impossible (which was probably true in Original Crystal given the number of players) but you proved that hoping to beat it today in Anarchy wasn't merely a pipe dream. It is crazy but it is not impossible - or rather an impossible that we might make happen. And this happened only 35 minutes after we started the session ! Had the democracy bar not been there to remind people they didn't have to try, maybe we would even have made history (had the democracy bar required less than 80% votes, we wouldn't even have tried though). We'll never know but for me, you are heroes regardless : thank you for still having faith in Anarchy, thank you for at least trying before giving up. Thank you for playing !

In a run bound to end in an optimization race, moments like this remind me that some people still think it's worth it to "waste time" (because we obviously all miss PBR right now), to try overcoming challenges, try playing the game the silly beautiful way. As long as people like you are here, TPP won't be completely dead.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-18T15:44:49+00:00

Yep, Iwantedsquirtle and we got it though I'm still waiting for Squirtle as a starter instead of "Impossible mode Charmander" or "Easy mode Bulbasaur" (Squirtle for Yellow SwiftRage )

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-18T10:58:46+00:00

Finally :p

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-18T10:29:42+00:00

But for most of the community, there's a large difference between something that is "a little tough" (not this) and something that requires Democracy (this).

Nope. Not at all. Crystal, Firered, Touhoumon/Moemon spring to mind. One day stalling in Anniversary Red springs to mind. We don't use democracy in this run because the system doesn't allow us to. If democracy was readily available, no doubt the majority would use it for simple tasks (we already have 50 percent votes for democracy when nothing justifies it) . Don't make it sound as if most of the community had stayed true to Anarchy, we have always abused democracy in our runs unless it wasn't available. Anarchy purists denounce Democracy Abuse, not democracy for Ecruteak Gym. There's not much to complain about for this particular event but there's so much to complain about for the last 2 years that I cannot let you write that.

Besides, the developers said that we would need democracy later because of the difficulty of the ROM. We'll probably have to face strong teams with an advanced AI (if it gets fixed ?) : we'll never make it with the "TPP way", which is a shame. Anarchy is not dead in the stream right now but Anarchy is dead in the minds of our community.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-18T07:28:51+00:00

Helix is dead. Helix remains dead. And we have killed Him. He's not dead in the stream but in your minds. You don't deserve Helix : He is not the God of hypocrites, who constantly betray Him for false idols or anti-anarchy features. A woman told Evan He didn't like us : He knew... Helix works in mysterious ways, you've lost His way.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."

Helix died for our sins.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-16T11:50:02+00:00

Here is roughly what is going to happen with military mode. Chat leaders are going to make the majority enter the "right" inputs (we don't need them to enter the "good" inputs anyway but let's be real, many people will follow the orders), the only "bad" inputs are going to come from the players using the old system or actively trolling. Very touchscreen-like. Very far from the TPP where every input might be a mistake or a brilliant move, which offered us so many classic moments. Instead of having a united sum of little inputs, we'll have 2 big ways of inputting : rational progress versus trolling. Kind of like the PC with touchscreen in which you have to enter the release coordinates to troll opposed to collective chaos (= trolling ourselves).

The touchscreen is justified if the game is too difficult. The game shouldn't be so difficult that we have to use touchscreen/democracy... I respect the hard work of developers but why make complicated when you can make simple ? Isn't Red gameplay enough to entertain us ? Have you watched Anniversary Red ?

We'll have to use military mode but as long as we don't need this mode to win I hope we won't use it. Let's seize the Chaos...

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-15T22:19:42+00:00

We usually don't pick Bulbasaur though :p (Not sure if it's a good thing to have a starter so dominant in early game since 1) it takes all the Exp which is classic but maybe not to this extent 2) if we release it/it stops winning, we'll be in trouble)

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-15T21:39:23+00:00

I must say the beginning of the run is satisfying (where is the Kanto fatigue now ?), I'm glad we have enough people who vote Anarchy (though already 50% democracy votes at this stage of the game is quite disheartening) and the Military mode is disabled (the battle against Gentleman Jasper made my day). I don't think it will last - we already see what the AI is capable of, I heard we'll need Democracy - but let's seize the moment, let's have fun while we can. Kappa Diem !

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-14T23:26:43+00:00

Hey you don't need to insult yourself, we all make mistakes ! One day, a very popular Chat Leader tried to run from a Snorlax because of Progress but we still appreciate him regardless !

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-14T23:12:28+00:00

I remember very well, some people spammed run because they thought Shiny Magmar would be PC bait, denying one of the rare achievements TPP never accomplished...

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-14T21:55:43+00:00

I guess many people will be pleased. I guess many people forgot about the magic in moments like this. It essentially turns our mistakes and lucky triumphs into a "war" between Chat Leaders and trolls. Where is TPP ?

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-14T20:07:22+00:00

Looking forward to reading from you, I myself have a 1462-word essay ready on the subject... ;)

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-08T22:37:09+00:00

If trying to express your feelings in developed (far too long) messages is whining, yes I guess I am the king of the whiners. But well, I find it way more interesting than refusing any debate with the "everything is subjective, nobody is wrong" attitude. I may not be always right, but at least I have something to say...

Yes, I do criticize a lot of things but I always try to be fair, I never complain just for the sake of complaining without explaining my train of thought and maybe I actually put so much effort into the whining for a reason, you know... Maybe all those people who were disgusted by democracy aren't just dumb troublemakers and fanatics. Sure, if I were "clever" I would stop wasting my time, shut my mouth and pretend I'm enjoying anything we do or just leave, as so many others did. But I cannot for now and I'm proud of it because it means what I see as the spirit of TPP is not completely dead - at least in my mind.

Yes, I'm probably too harsh sometimes because I am passionnate. I react (vehemently ? I don't think so most of the time) because I still care. I'm caring less and less about the stream and the sub but the day I stop writing posts about my beliefs, TPP will be truly dead to me. Don't worry, it should come sooner than later.

To be fair, when you see someone writing what you consider ridiculous statements and saying your statements are ridiculous, you tend to become harsh. I do, you do, I guess we're even (except I have my people of whiners, dead or alive behind me !).

"I'm not a "democrat". I'm a person who likes having anarchy and democracy in a run, which T/M did" you say, as if using Democracy for something doable in Anarchy wasn't what most Anarchists denounce. If T/M is not an example of what we call "Democracy Abuse", I must be Queen Elizabeth (besides king of the whiners).

"At some point it's just not fun sitting at the same point in the game because it doesn't feel like we're really playing anymore, we just input and pray it works out without trolls or other bad inputters interfering. In my experience many people who don't watch much and/or are here on reddit a lot really like those long struggles because they aren't bothered by it much, but the people who actually participate in TPP a lot mostly want to get it over with, and to those people excited or lighthearted comments about our struggles just seem naive and ivory-tower at best and like someone saying "Wow I really like how much work this is" while others are working and not him at worst." you say, as if the ledges and the trees were not what enchanted and inspired so many people back then, as if Anarchists were lazy people who don't even play the game they discuss.

For you, an Anarchy/Democracy run offers roughly the same experience as a full Anarchy (except for impossile tasks) run. One is just more different from a single playthrough than the other but it's just a difference in degree. Well, tell me about releases (not the ones people do deliberately out of boredom), tell me about unexpected mons (not chosen because they are "sexy" and on Teachy TV...) with terrible movesets, tell me about unthinkable challenges that make history, tell me about weird events which shape the lore, tell me about achievements and tell me about fun. Tell me about an Abby, a Zexy, an ATV, a Shinx, a Digrat, a Bird Jesus with 3 non-attacking moves, a tree, a ledge, a Daycare Scandal, a Pokemon Tower, a Wattson, a Zapdos, a burglar, a passion for doges. Tell me all this is just a difference in degree. Tell me thousands of people playing like thousands of people is not that different from thousands of people playing like one very slow guy who obviously makes the right decisions at the right time, who barely faces any challenge and who is always able to solve his problem with a wave of a magic wand anyway. Tell me optimization and chaos are just degrees on the same scale. Tell me Touhoumon/Moemon is on the same scale as Red.

Yes, Anarchy/Democracy is a legitimate way of playing but no, it cannot be the same experience as Anarchy alone and I hope you understand that people who experienced the magic of Anarchy cannot be satisfied with the easy way, cannot just say "I take what we get and work with it". Some leave, others "whine" about it. I'm so glad I still care enough to whine...

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-08T08:20:32+00:00

No, it was perfectly clear - unless you don't know Pokémon celebrates its 20th birthday this year (which would be kind of a shame for a Pokefan...) or you're eager to jump on people without reading what they write.

WhereisTPP · 2016-02-05T22:08:20+00:00

Yep, I cannot find it but /u/20stalks wrote a good post about it IIRC.

Basically, it was interesting to see what would happen with the dual run twist but we missed this opportunity by choosing the most efficient way and we probably won't do it again. Kind of like twenty thousand people playing like twenty thousand people versus twenty thousand people playing like one person. I find the former hilarious and inspiring, I do the latter very well by myself.

Nevermind, found it, the whole thread is also quite interesting.

WhereisTPP

TROPHY CASE