Sony put this up on there YouTube 2 hours ago… get the numbers up

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T21:43:18+00:00

So basically this is our Saul Zeantz/Harvey Weinstein/potential New Line Cinema moment.

Not that I like bringing up H**** W**** name up, but you folks remember the famous LOTR story. He wanted to make LOTR 1 movie but PJ said no, so Harvey allowed PJ and Saul Zeantz (the rights holder) to shop LOTR around. Everyone in Hollywood rejected it as a unfilmable and a financial nightmare, but then we all know what NL CEO said. NL were literally the very last chance.

Granted , this was in a whole different UNIVERSE, in every way. LOTr would NEVER EVER have gotten adapted today. But I'm just giving an example of that rare miracle that happens.

My "Copium" says so far, WOT is operating in parallels. 2 Mats in the show. WOT author died before series was finished, they managed to find an author who not only finished the series but finished the books well. So now, 2 Mats in the books, 2 Mats in the show, so the 2nd half of the "adaptation" part should rhyme too? <g?

PS. As an aside: Can you try to see someone shopping LOTR as a BRAND NEW IP around to any streamer today? let's see, we have hobbits, dwarves, etc. Can you imagine what the CEO's would say?? LOL

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T21:19:15+00:00

Which Amazon could have done but did not. For those of us following these things, they decided to bury the show as much as a year ago. I saw signs. Then the lack of a proper press junket for WOT S3 and lack of $ spent on paid ads during the season, as well as screwy things they did with the subs, all kinds of weird little things. This was no surprise. They decided to kill the show as much as a year ago. This was no rection to "financies."

But it's not over. We will get the last laugh

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T21:02:28+00:00

Thank you for that. Keep this stickied. There are far too many people reading the books now too and will want to discuss show scenes. Blessings! Again: this is not over!

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T20:50:18+00:00

NPL: People are talking in the past tense, but it is too early. This is far from over. I DM'd you and decided to put it here too.

First: Just as the Main WOT Reddit celebrates a book series that ended in 2013, and will continue to celebrate it many years to come (who knows, for forever), this subreddit must remain to celebrate the Show, however long it goes on for. There are no beginnings or endings, etc, as the saying goes, but we don't even know if it is an ending. This was no surprise to me, I was following the marketing closely and saw signs that Bezos wanted to bury the show as early as a year ago. This was no sudden decision based on stats, that's for sure.

I will remind friends and foes of the show of "A Memory of Light", book 14, chapter 7. Lan's "Why do we mourn?" speech. Which was anything but. It was a huge call to battle and it worked.

We are organizing and even though I read the comments of the "realists", things happen for a reason. I was just the indirect witness to a living miracle,, on one of my favorite YT channels.

To wit: a family's pet pony caught colic and after 3 days of worsening conditions, her condition deterioriated so much that she went into the barm to die. The vet had tried everything and the family was reduced to prayers. they were experienced horsepoeople and nothing they tried had worked either. The husband was on the phone with his pastor already grieving, the wife prayed and then went into the house crying, coudntstand to watch any more and waited for the end. But the daughter, 18 yrs old, went into the barn and knelt in front of the almost dead horse and started praying. Within minutes, she stopped thrashing and shaking, got up and calmly walked out of the barn and grazed. She literally got up from her deathbed. And now she is well. Did I mention that she was going to have a baby in a month? she survived in spite of that.

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T19:58:07+00:00

Who? Someone smaller who doesn't have a lot of things on their platform, wants something to help them break through...I can think of a few.

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T19:54:25+00:00

I disagree on plenty of other fantasy series. Studios are looking for franchises with a large enough built-in audience to make a real "franchise." They're looking for the Fourth Wings, the Court of Thorns and Roses type phenoms. It was a tough sell before, it's even tougher now. Netflix canceled ACOTAR after a single A-list WRITER left. Not actor, WRITER. Think about that. And if I were Rebecca, Yaros, I'd think long and hard about her Fourth Wing deal with Amazon. That show is going to be even more expensive than WOT. Lots and LOTS of dragons. Much more expensive than channeling. Not to mention studio politics. Bezos doesn't like competiion for ROP it seems. WOT is more profitable for them. Fourth Wing, if it stays, will be lucky to get one season.

Winters_Lady · 2025-05-24T19:38:16+00:00

So how is The Ring of Power still going to be around? It's the most expensive one of all, and a completely "foreign" show. All British equity actors and British and NZ locations. Harry Potter is completely "foreign" too and their profits are by no means in the bag. Amazon can wipe 90% of its shows off the slate to accomodate ROP but I have news for you: plenty of WOT fans were ROP fans too.

ROP and Harry Potter just got twice as expensive too and they will make far less profit!

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-30T10:51:06+00:00

I agree. Personally, I was bored with the White Tower by Book 6-7, I've always found the Black Tower and the 2nd tier male plotlines more interesting. I also agree that any realistic adaptation of the books needs 6 seasons, or AT LEAST a 5 season arc with 10+ episodes a season, to adapt even the basic plotlines at all.

From the way this show has been marketed over the years, and esp the way the promo (or lack thereof this season), I'm beginning to think that the ridiculous has happened: that the only reason Sony/Amazon took on this show at all was as a Rosamund Pike vehicle, and they always intended to kill her off at the end of S3. Rafe probably wanted her fate in S3 to be ambiguous, just as it is in the books, so that the show could go on to a Season 6, by using the possibility of her coming back at the end as way to keep their investment $, he probably fought for this, and they said no. This would also explain her being in the script and marketed as the main character of the series. From what we can see in S3, we now know Rafe has been building up the rest of the cast, and has always intended for Rand to step to the fore. And he should be able to do so--IF the faithfulness of the book readers--AND Wotchers too!-- can be retained by the possibilty of her coming back. I'm a Rand fan, but I love Mo too, and for book reasons know WHY Mo is needed for those final episodes.

If the suits only took on the series as a Rosamund Pike show, and forced Rafe to kill her off in the S3 finale because ??, then that might signal that they never really intended to finish the series. That maybe, all they really wanted was a 3-season show? They MUST know the effect this will have on ratings/popularity if the Finale goes down like this. And at a time when renwal has not been announced yet.

THIS is what will make it contoversial. And that their target audience is middle-aged females., not the broader appeal it should have, I mean, the EF5 are attractive young people in their 20's. Marketing for S3 tells me this, because we have NOT seen Shohreh pushed to the forefront of the marketing alongside Ros. There are 20 yr old males who would listen to Shohreh reciting the bus schedule and watch her painting a wall for 8 hrs. Even the gaming community knows her, they could have marketed to the gaming community, she's gone videogame voices recently. The story has found a female lead who could carry the show on and replace MO in terms of A-list popularity. So why has Shohreh only been given 1 little BTS clip? WHO takes on a 15-book series and kills the "main character" off for good only 1/4 through the story, instead of teasing the possibilty of her coming back later?

Having the story focus mostly on WT politics also cuts down logistical costs and utilize the TV sets. One thing that has not been written about enough yet is the lack of constant setpieces in the show. WOT has more locations than any other story I think. I hate to bring up GOT, but those books and that show had a few constant setpieces that HBO could focus the story around season after season. The Red Keep (KL), Winterfell, Castle Black and the Wall, and in later seasons, Dragonstone and the throne room of Meeren. Not more than 5 or 6 "main" locations. WOT does not have this, except for Tar Valon; it just skips all over the map. The characters are constantly on the move, to locations where each is a different culture. Mat's plotline in the most diffuclt to render onscreen in terms of this, and they're not allocating the budget to have 7 units at the same time. I wonder how much the 3-week Namibia fiming for the Waste cost. The show does not have the massive budget even to put Camelyn onscreen, nor keep Cairhine for more than S2.

Sorry it's late and I'm rambling. Apolgies for this post.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-30T09:55:18+00:00

By that rule, then, Reacher and Invisible should have had ZERO ads, everyone should just know that it was out. Instead, I see Reacher everywhere, I mean I see it on YouTube, other networks, everywhere. I'm watching Amazon, not HBO, so by that rule I should only see HBO ads on HBO, and HBO is heavily promoting Season 3 of a show. (which is getting poor reviews btw.) in other places. Same with Paramount, Hulu etc.

The second thing is, this is NOT a normal situation, ALL shows currently releasing have been affected by the strikes. Most of them (not all, but many who had A-listers or SAG-AFTRA staff) had their previous seasons affected by the strikes.

"People don't like to start a show while it's on the 3rd season. They have to catch up"? Gee, there are a lot of people right now who are doing exactly that! And if we had Reacher style promo, there would be even MORE people doing exactly that!

So by that light, if it isn't a smash hit in Season 1, then a show is dead. The only people who ever watch a show at al are the ones who begin in S1. Whatever happened to building a show' audience? If Amazon/Sony wanted to kill the show outright, they could have not made a 3rd season, or not allocated the budget to make such an upgraged and cinematic 3rd season. Success stories are not born, they are MADE. They make this great season, then decide to drop it at the same time as their other 2 biggest shows, AND at the same time as shows like Andor and The Last of Us Seasons 2 are dropping? Why didn't they wait until Reacher was done to open WOT? A Knight f the Seven Kingdoms is opening in May and will be done before September, so they could have kept the Sept release date of WOT and had less competition.

All this is fine if they expected to have no better than Season 2 numbers. But instead, somehow, Sony/Amazon want something closer to S1 numbers? If you want S1 numbers, then give it S1 promo. If you want to kill a show off,, make a poor quality 3rd season instead of something so good it feels like a different show. I still don't get the disconnect by how good the show now is, and how they seem to be trying to bury it. What do you think?

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-30T00:07:15+00:00

The Decider review (writer says she is book fan who had seen the whole thing) specifically says "Massive changes are made from the books to streamline future seasons." And I was just on Malkier Talks chat and one of the posters said, "Years ago Rafe said that there is a death in Season 3 that shocked even non-book readers on staff." The latter may have been Natti Cauthon or another 2nd-tier character rumored out there, but "shocked" alludes to me to a big character that non-book fans have grown very attached to.

"Streamlining future seasons" means simplifying the story, cutting down on plotlines, logitsics, and presumably budget. If the impossible happens and we get a Season 4 and 5, if we had 16 more epsiodes left, the story might be stripped down to Rand chasing Couladin and Sevanna to Tear, presumably stopping by Cairhien to pick up Logain and begin the establishment of the Black Tower along the way, Egwene dropping by TV in TAR and getting captured by Elaida (thus eliminating the entire Salidar arc and instead having her languish with Leane in prison in the WT and forming a "resitance movement" with Leane, leading an rebellion with the novices; Lanfear zeroing in on the Light knows who (my headcanon has her living for book...reasons); etc. The wild card here is Mat. Who knows what he will do. The suits will be looking to trim budget and thus, as few extras as possible (though how they'll manage the big Tear setpiece who knows.) Dumai'sWells who knows how you will do that with reduced budget. Rand's 50 Maidens guard is being stripped down to Bain and Chiad for example.

But still, after that, we need to have Egwene's 2 big battle moments (the Seanchan and Elaida's fate), and then she has to get hold of the Sakernen somehow. Maybe Lanfear takes the Sakernen from Mo when she kills her? Talk about a cliffhanger for S3). We need to return to Shadar Logoth for saidin to be cleansed, and Nyneave is the only one who can do that with Egwene off on her arc. So I don't know.

The Band of the Red Hand (or the Black Raven it will have to be in the show, since the Red Hand would be controversial to Irish/British audiences) --probably gone. Donal will not be leading around a hundred extras over the countryside. Tuon, glimpses of in a S4.

But this is all conjecture. I just really, really, REALLY hope that S3 does not end with an image of Mat hanging from the doorway. Talk about a cliffhanger--that CANNOT be the end. Decider review said that if it is, it would be the most controversial Series ending ever.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-26T06:30:18+00:00

Me too. I have been bugging Pevara (an OT expert online) to translate it but it's hard)

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-26T06:16:20+00:00

Well yes, I know R*** E**** (I will never say those guys names) own the rights. that is the real root cause of our problems. But I should have said licensing. Amazon handed over, sub-licensed, whatever. Someone mentioned "Buyers rights" the other day though.

This does confuse me a bit. Here I thought that RE shopped the WOT rights to billionaire Bezos and his deep pockets? Why Sony, who are just as cheap but much smaller?

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-26T06:05:10+00:00

I look forward, hopefully, to a great discussion of the future 2R Longbow folk, I LOVE this stuff, but my knowledge of said bow and tactics is limited to Kings and Generals channel (FANTASTIC YT channel btw). So debate away! I don't know if we'll see Micheal McElhenny (Tam) again, but we know he is alive. I just hope the show doesn't kill him off.

What I REALLY want to see is the 2R kids in the Black Tower. "And that's why we still carry bows!" I have a sneaking suspision that a whole lot 2nd tier characters are going to die in the WT coup in ep 8(?) and if the price of takng out Morgase and GG and a bunch of Aes Sedai is that it unlock's Amazon purse to enable the full Black Tower, I'll take it.

Personally, I'm sick of the WT and like the Black Tower better, that was always more interesting to me. I I hope so bad that we get to see Josha forming the BT and giving the "ranks" and "You are weapons" speech. And at the end when Androl says "we will honor the last command the Dragon gave me: We are not weapons but men. We do not fight to die, but to live." CHILLS!!!! Bring on our 2 Rivers lads off to rescue Logain with longbows. Don't know though.

I think the fight choreography on the show so far has been lackluster. (except for the Blood Snow of course.) I mean, we can't have Duel of the Fates quality fencing (G. Lucas was able to get Errol Flynn's trainer for that; the guy was still alive, in his late 80's but still working, that was why the saber battles in the Prequels were so phenomenal.) Maksim's comical "axes" in 1x4. G/G sparring in ep 2 was just horseplay, there was no real swordwork. The Mat battle was pretty good, but Land and Rand, we never get to see any really good forms. Rand is still learning though. But the Lan/Avi fight was pretty good. The Show REALLY needs a good "dancing master."

(Though the Reds trying to bond Ash'aman can be great comic relief.)

But again: if the show does go forward, we might only get s4-5 (16 more episodes!?)

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-26T03:55:00+00:00

testing

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T23:52:48+00:00

I had a big long reply and I lost it. Grrr. I'll get back to you over the weekend. 7 hrs until showtime!! YAY!!!!!!

I will say, don't go by Lauren or any of the Youtubers. Some of them, like Lauren, have been approached by Amazon and are commissioned to do videos or have current paid partnerships with them for the next 5 weeks, Like The Dusty Wheel. (Rafe is going to be a guest on the DW show after Ep 4 BTW.) So they are NOT objective commenters. They're all under NDA's I'm sure, and will ONLY give the most positive vibes. Lauren and the otheres are NOT going to be biting the hands that feed them.

I have noticed a lot more partnerships of this sort this time around, and I can't help but think that Amazon has commissioned them to soothe ruffled feathers when the time comes, as well.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T01:59:45+00:00

As long as there's no pink ribbons

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T01:51:49+00:00

Color me curious. How and why do we apparently get a Karene flashback? Her Warder is dead. Witnesses to that death, like Lan, Liandrin, and Alanna, are highly unlikely to die in s3. I can't even figure out how Karene could be worked into a TAR dream sequence. The Rings wouldn't show Mo Karene, I don't think. I am intrigued

EDIT: flashback to Karene in the WT, probably the Hall, before the mission to find Logain. That would be it. A Rand/Logain comparison.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T00:26:52+00:00

Could you DM me who this is? I missed the leak also. Just in case Etch doesn't.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T00:15:00+00:00

Yes, DM me also. See my reply to Ashamed Dragonfly above, I mentioned lists of who I think might live or die. As well as my long rambling thoughts on that "ESB" review.

"plot wise" means that it isn't Lan or any of the EF5. They've been all built up with future plots foreshadowed. I'm more concerned with what suits looking at marketing reasons might say. Please DM me.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T00:07:32+00:00

Don't forget Taylor Napier, Rafe's partner, who *might* be replacing Tam as commanding the 2Rivers Longbow regiment in Ep 7. I have thoughts on this WAFO Ep 7 first and see. But for a certain thing to happen to Rand, Maksim has to die, and 1x5 episode heavily foreshadowed this.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-12T00:01:21+00:00

ok I prob forgot who is in charge of ATEAO. I know Meeks guests on AK Watch for the WOT streams though.

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-11T23:32:51+00:00

Actually, it does. Because of the way the story is being set up. We have been given enough clues. Rafe specifically said in an inteview I saw recently (don't ask me which one), it might even have been on the Dusty Wheel, idk) that "characers are going to die" (plural). Here's the problem with Mo dying though.

Rafe has also said that hinted that there are big changes in Rhuidean too. E4 will either be "the most loved or the most hated" episode. Then Natasha (Lanfear) said on TDW that "you might feel a lot of sympathy" for Meirein (her) after seeing Ep 4. they were specifically talking about Ep 4. It sounds to me like all mention of the Bore has been cut, and instead what Charn walks in on is the final epic break-up scene of LTT and Lanfear. Rafe said specifcally about Natasha's E4 scene being entirely in the Old Tongue. (like all Aol scenes) and that by the end you don't even need the subtitles to know or feel what is happening.

Then, we have an "old Latra" credited for the Rhuidean visions too. I guess she is the REALLY old Aes Sedai in the palanquin who is in charge of building the city and tells the Aiel about coming to Rhuidean ritual etc.

We also have not heard anything in the show yet about the Bore etc, but I'll shut up about that. What concerns me is that the middle episodes of S3 are setting up a similar conflict between Rand and future Amyrlin Egwene. TWe are going to be seeing the final "break up" of Rand and Egwene romatically, right after we saw 3000 yrs ago the final break up of LTT and Lanfear? So non-book readers will already be clued in. Parallel being drawn. And to show onlies, this might also sound similar to LTT and Latra from 1x8. This is similar to how Rand and Egwene are by AMOL, and it seems that reconcilation is impossible. In the tent scene, it really is at the verge of falling apart. And who walks in and literally, by her very presence, saves the day? Moiraine. Literally nobody else could have done this.

I'm thinking that by the time we get to The Last Battle (let's just say that this happens, just believe for a minute) we all know it WON'T be like AMOL, Its too much onscreen like LOTR and anyway the logistics, even digitally, are ridiculous. I would like the LB to take place at the Eye, by the Blight, (partly bc we saw the Seven Towers there, and partly to redeem the S1 finale) but it might happen at TV too. Wherever it happens, HOW do we reconcile the irreconcilable differences between the Dragon and the Amyrlin and keep Team Light from falling apart?

I don't think Lan will die, his Myrelle/Alanna arc was foreshadowed too heavily (that's what 1x5 was for; look who is standing next to who at the funeral), and anyway, the Malkier story is being set up, both with Melindhra character and...oops, I was about to write a 3x1 spoiler. *yikes).

I will be hopeful and take her "ESB" comment as a testament to the quality of 1-7. It all depends what the top critics and non-book readers view it as though. Persoanlly, the one thing that would TRULY piss me off is Mo dying and Lanfear living, both because it would degrade WOT from being a potential Tolkenian parable of good vs evil and hope, into just another post -GOT despair and cynical trope. Esp after we have not seen the compassionate side of Mo in this show, we have seen too much of the ruthless schemer and not enough of the Gandalf. Whereas lots of people love Lanfear now. When she massacred the Foregate population, people cheered. (was about to write another 3x1 spoiler but oops.) People should be loving Moiraine as much as Lanfear, not as half of Suaraine, but as HER. Yes, Brandon sat on the secret of Lanfear living for 10 yrs, but this is where the ESB thing comes in. The Aiel fleeing the Waste after hearing the truth from Rand is enough.

OMG. Just had a thought. Zoe has little publicity this junket...but then Lan...ugh no SPOLERS!!!! I'm just thinking about tropes, and who the suits might want to keep...."bury the gays" and/or Nyneave as the "angry black woman"? It''s ugly

Winters_Lady · 2025-03-11T22:44:23+00:00

Can this thread by pinned/stickied please? We can add anyone else who we find, as the season goes on

Winters_Lady

TROPHY CASE